Trump suggests arming teachers & staff could prevent school massacres

a reply to: Edumakated

I do think having armed teachers is a stretch. Security sure but the teachers already have a high stress job that requires constant retraining. The logistics of them carying and or storing the firearms while teaching one on with a possible psycho is pretty hard to imagine.

Most teachers are not navy seals. If they are they could be screened for the job and Cary very very close to the body and have heavy duty biometric safes.

We can, of course, guarantee that this would never happen again in a high school.

All we have to do, is to build a wall around every high school compound, much like a prison wall.

Then, have the students and teachers, and staff, file one by one through the only gated entrance, walking through metal detectors, just like they do at the FBI and NSA headquarters.

So, once the students are "inside" their secure compound, they'd never have to worry about this type of thing.

It would be "nearly" impossible. Except for those cases where security guard takes a bribe, to deliberately let in some guy with a gun.

Even so, we'd reduce the frequency to just a few of those rare instances where corrupt security guards fail the system.

double post.

Agreed but not half ass guards. People who can shoot for real and not hit the innocent bystanders or go on a power trip. No other job like drug enforcement etc just security to isolate their behavioral pattern a bit from the students in any negative light. Imo

a reply to: AMPTAH

The it'll be the Mall, then train stations, then swimming pools, then......................................................

a reply to: luthier

Absolutely. Stringent requirements area must.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Edumakated

I do think having armed teachers is a stretch. Security sure but the teachers already have a high stress job that requires constant retraining. The logistics of them carying and or storing the firearms while teaching one on with a possible psycho is pretty hard to imagine.

Most teachers are not navy seals. If they are they could be screened for the job and Cary very very close to the body and have heavy duty biometric safes.

I don't think every teacher should be armed, but I do think there should be armed and trained personnel on campus.

That was one of the student's and/or parent's recommendations . Trump followed through.
The main recommendation was off-duty police or retired military
And as far as the ignorant "putting a gun where anyone could get it" I wouldnt advise trying to take a firearm from an off-duty police officer and surely not from retired military . That wouldn't end very well...someone would most likely have a very bad day.

RT - just another epic fail....

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: luthier

Absolutely. Stringent requirements area must.

My cynical self worries that the government would just say hey local off duty cops can do it without a special training program or just the sso who is busting kids for weed will handle it and may weigh 300 lbs and be a terrible shot who panics.

Imo the best thing would be more like a fed marshal who uses Intel to stop it as well reviewing several schools Intel to stop it before it happens. I know the fbi is taking crap but they don't exactly have a special school divisions. Law enforcement is spread so thin. We need to devote some to this issue.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Lab4Us

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: watchitburn

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: lordcomac

It takes considerable training and maintenence to shoot hand guns in stress full large group settings.

It also takes a certain kind of personality screened to do it. Most police don't handle it very well. Just look at NYC and the amount of innocent people shot by accident trying to get the bad guy.

It's not realistic in my opinion as a marksman to ask that of teachers. You may find a few here and there but it's most likely a field agent type training to access that situation.

There's no shortage of already trained veterans that would be happy to protect schools.
This is a much better idea than trying to strip everyone of their inherent human rights.

There is no shortage of Veterans with brain injuries and ptsd as well.

It's not really that simple. Now I realize part of the problem is needing security. But having an agent who can assess the situation and get to the person possibly before it happens is better.

Not to mention guns are not the real issue.

Plenty of countries have guns and bad health care and don't have kids shooting up class rooms.

This conversation should be far more than guns which hijack the situation.

My point was as an avid marksman myself, people who don't shoot assume it's like the movies. In reality a gym teacher with a ccl has fairly good chance of shooting students himself by accident.

I see it all the time in three gun races for newbies who don't do stress shooting. They are way off target.

Which is exactly why any educators so chosen to bear such a responsibilty would undergo rigorous and recurring training. There are many more people than you that can hit what they are shooting at, stressed or not. I would like to see your research on the gym tracher hitting students by accident. Willing teachers carrying and protecting students is actually a great idea and would make schools much less of a target. Next step would quit making schools gun free zones.

By the way, I’m sure the intent is concealed carry, not guns locked up across campus. Additionally, if you think there aren’t going to be lots of deaths before any police show up to allegedly experience crossfire, you’re sadly mistaken. Armed, trained educators could prevent these deaths.

I also said they would need training. I have a ccl anyone can get one. No maintenence and the test is a joke.

Let's also say a normal short barrel hand gun isn't very accurate. It's not like the movies.

Do you shoot?

Look up how bad of marksman police are as an example. Here is one article.

bearingarms.com...

I shoot monthly. During my time in the military (28 years), I fired stress firing courses for qualification regularly. A short barreled handgun can be very accurate...maybe not a 1 and 1/4 snubnose, but my 5” Wilson .45 is pretty damned accurate. There is a school here in Texas where some staff do this already. They train regularly with law enforcement. Quite the success story. onenewsnow.com...

originally posted by: Gothmog
That was one of the student's and/or parent's recommendations . Trump followed through.
The main recommendation was off-duty police or retired military
And as far as the ignorant "putting a gun where anyone could get it" I wouldnt advise trying to take a firearm from an off-duty police officer and surely not from retired military . That wouldn't end very well...someone would most likely have a very bad day.

RT - just another epic fail....

It's kind of a romantic view of cops and vets. Cops don't have great marksmanship and vets aren't exactly all trained on sidearms either. Properly trained and screened vets would be a far better choice Imo.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: luthier

Absolutely. Stringent requirements area must.

My cynical self worries that the government would just say hey local off duty cops can do it without a special training program or just the sso who is busting kids for weed will handle it and may weigh 300 lbs and be a terrible shot who panics.

Imo the best thing would be more like a fed marshal who uses Intel to stop it as well reviewing several schools Intel to stop it before it happens. I know the fbi is taking crap but they don't exactly have a special school divisions. Law enforcement is spread so thin. We need to devote some to this issue.

How many 300 lb cops with bad aim do you think there exists in the US ?
That was laughable . If there is , that 300lb police officer had to take the fitness test...guaranteed
They all have to go to the firing range , periodically and are scored.
There is only a handful of US Marshals whose primary focus is the capture and transportation of wanted fugitives.
Why cant a police officer busting kids for weed possession (it is against the law , ,you know) do this ? All police officers should be following the letter of the law. And what is an SSO you mentioned ? Social Security Officer ???

originally posted by: Lab4Us

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Lab4Us

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: watchitburn

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: lordcomac

It takes considerable training and maintenence to shoot hand guns in stress full large group settings.

It also takes a certain kind of personality screened to do it. Most police don't handle it very well. Just look at NYC and the amount of innocent people shot by accident trying to get the bad guy.

It's not realistic in my opinion as a marksman to ask that of teachers. You may find a few here and there but it's most likely a field agent type training to access that situation.

There's no shortage of already trained veterans that would be happy to protect schools.
This is a much better idea than trying to strip everyone of their inherent human rights.

There is no shortage of Veterans with brain injuries and ptsd as well.

It's not really that simple. Now I realize part of the problem is needing security. But having an agent who can assess the situation and get to the person possibly before it happens is better.

Not to mention guns are not the real issue.

Plenty of countries have guns and bad health care and don't have kids shooting up class rooms.

This conversation should be far more than guns which hijack the situation.

My point was as an avid marksman myself, people who don't shoot assume it's like the movies. In reality a gym teacher with a ccl has fairly good chance of shooting students himself by accident.

I see it all the time in three gun races for newbies who don't do stress shooting. They are way off target.

Which is exactly why any educators so chosen to bear such a responsibilty would undergo rigorous and recurring training. There are many more people than you that can hit what they are shooting at, stressed or not. I would like to see your research on the gym tracher hitting students by accident. Willing teachers carrying and protecting students is actually a great idea and would make schools much less of a target. Next step would quit making schools gun free zones.

By the way, I’m sure the intent is concealed carry, not guns locked up across campus. Additionally, if you think there aren’t going to be lots of deaths before any police show up to allegedly experience crossfire, you’re sadly mistaken. Armed, trained educators could prevent these deaths.

I also said they would need training. I have a ccl anyone can get one. No maintenence and the test is a joke.

Let's also say a normal short barrel hand gun isn't very accurate. It's not like the movies.

Do you shoot?

Look up how bad of marksman police are as an example. Here is one article.

bearingarms.com...

I shoot monthly. During my time in the military (28 years), I fired stress firing courses for qualification regularly. A short barreled handgun can be very accurate...maybe not a 1 and 1/4 snubnose, but my 5” Wilson .45 is pretty damned accurate. There is a school here in Texas where some staff do this already. They train regularly with law enforcement. Quite the success story. onenewsnow.com...

I did most of my 3 gun races at best of the west outside Austin.

Cops don't do stress shooting very often. Vets sure but they still need screening. It 8snt a plug and play situation.

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: luthier

Absolutely. Stringent requirements area must.

My cynical self worries that the government would just say hey local off duty cops can do it without a special training program or just the sso who is busting kids for weed will handle it and may weigh 300 lbs and be a terrible shot who panics.

Imo the best thing would be more like a fed marshal who uses Intel to stop it as well reviewing several schools Intel to stop it before it happens. I know the fbi is taking crap but they don't exactly have a special school divisions. Law enforcement is spread so thin. We need to devote some to this issue.

How many 300 lb cops with bad aim do you think there exists in the US ?
That was laughable . If there is , that 300lb police officer had to take the fitness test...guaranteed
They all have to go to the firing range , periodically and are scored.
There is only a handful of US Marshals whose primary focus is the capture and transportation of wanted fugitives.
Why cant a police officer busting kids for weed possession (it is against the law , ,you know) do this ? All police officers should be following the letter of the law. And what is an SSO you mentioned ? Social Security Officer ???

bearingarms.com...

dfw.cbslocal.com...


Just food for thought.

Edit.

It shouldn't be the guy busting kids for weed because the focus should be on keeping kids safe, staying blended in and watching body language and listening to Intel. Some of that Intel could be from kids who wouldn't normally talk to a cop but know he is there for one purpose.

originally posted by: CaptainBeno
a reply to: AMPTAH

The it'll be the Mall, then train stations, then swimming pools, then......................................................

In the old movie westerns, where everybody wore a gun or two on their hip, they had the solution.

Whenever you entered a private property, like a saloon or bar, you checked your weapon at the door.

So, you could have a society where everybody is allowed to keep and bear arms, on public lands.

Then, every establishment, like school, mall, shopping center, government building, movie theater, etc..would all have these "walled compounds" that were gun free inside, and you checked your weapon at the entrance.

It would take some "re-design" of cities and towns, to make this idea universal everywhere.

But, for example, we have things like "gated communities" in various parts of the nation, where residents live. We'd just make those gated communities more secure, with better impenetrable "Trump-like Walls", and require all residents leave their guns at the gun shack at the entrance...etc..

Could be done. Where there's a will, there's a way.

Then we have both Security and Our Guns.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: luthier

Absolutely. Stringent requirements area must.

My cynical self worries that the government would just say hey local off duty cops can do it without a special training program or just the sso who is busting kids for weed will handle it and may weigh 300 lbs and be a terrible shot who panics.

Imo the best thing would be more like a fed marshal who uses Intel to stop it as well reviewing several schools Intel to stop it before it happens. I know the fbi is taking crap but they don't exactly have a special school divisions. Law enforcement is spread so thin. We need to devote some to this issue.

Private companies?

a reply to: JinMI

Maybe. But screened vets would be fine.

originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: CaptainBeno
a reply to: AMPTAH

The it'll be the Mall, then train stations, then swimming pools, then......................................................

In the old movie westerns, where everybody wore a gun or two on their hip, they had the solution.

Whenever you entered a private property, like a saloon or bar, you checked your weapon at the door.

So, you could have a society where everybody is allowed to keep and bear arms, on public lands.

Then, every establishment, like school, mall, shopping center, government building, movie theater, etc..would all have these "walled compounds" that were gun free inside, and you checked your weapon at the entrance.

It would take some "re-design" of cities and towns, to make this idea universal everywhere.

But, for example, we have things like "gated communities" in various parts of the nation, where residents live. We'd just make those gated communities more secure, with better impenetrable "Trump-like Walls", and require all residents leave their guns at the gun shack at the entrance...etc..

Could be done. Where there's a will, there's a way.

Then we have both Security and Our Guns.

And in that scenario, the bartender had a coach gun (short double barrel shotgun) behind the bar in case someone entered that did NOT check their arms, or hid them until ready to kill someone.

If yo are going to use an analogy, use the full analogy please.

I had a teacher in elementary school that had a breakdown. She used to cry at her desk every afternoon. I don't think I would have wanted her to have a gun. I could just picture her freaking out one day and blowing her head off in front of the class or something....she ended up leaving halfway through the year for 'personal reasons'

originally posted by: dug88
I had a teacher in elementary school that had a breakdown. She used to cry at her desk every afternoon. I don't think I would have wanted her to have a gun. I could just picture her freaking out one day and blowing her head off in front of the class or something....she ended up leaving halfway through the year for 'personal reasons'

Not aimed at you specifically, but all the people in this thread that think there would be no screening with this plan or that it would not be volunteers only...are you kidding me? You folks can’t think this plan through that there would be stipulations? Or as usual, are the naysayers just being contrarians?