How I prove God exists.

originally posted by: turbonium1
Another problem...

A balloon rises up, which defeats the great force capable of holding a distant moon in place.

And somehow, gravity has made Earth's whole atmosphere attach itself to Earth, which is supposedly spinning around at 1000 mph! No grip on a little balloon - just on the entire atmosphere of Earth!

Gravity is utter crap

A balloon rises because of buoyancy. Helium is lighter than air and displaces it to *float* on top of it.

Your example is like saying "because a boat floats on top of water -- instead of sinking -- gravity is utter crap."

originally posted by: noonebutme
a reply to: Realtruth

I believe gravity exists and can be proven.

I am on Earth, in my house, in the front room.

I pick up a ball. I let it go. It drops to the fall.

I repeat that 100 times. Every time it falls to the floor.

I can record that phenomenon using video, audio, motion, vibration, etc. I can then look and compare that analysis against every 100 retries.

Where are my senses deceiving me? At which point in the 100 attempts of the ball falling to the floor were my senses being deceived?

Senses are absolutely deceivable, it merely takes one example to prove it, and just because you give one example that tries to disprove it doesn't make it so.

Our ego's typically will not allow us to think outside a tiny little box.



1) Sight - Mirages " our aesthetic affinity to be pleased with sight and trust in what we see with our eyes as being correct or right is not always so. Many optical illusions exist to demonstrate this."


2) Touch - Drugs they can feel good temporarily however some of them will destroy us, so our sense of feeling has been deceived

3) Hearing - Electronic recordings of birds singing, if we hear it in early morning without our sight we'd think it was a bird. Sight Deceived.

4) Smell - Certain mushrooms can smell good but kill us. Cyanide tastes and smells like almond, but results are deadly.

5) Taste - There are wild mushrooms that not only look like edible ones, smell like, and taste delicious like edible mushrooms, so not only is sight deceived but taste and smell as well.

Then we have the mind and just one trip on acid will show anyone that the mind itself can be induced into a deceptive state, thus all the 5 senses as well.

evolveconsciousness.org...

We live in fantasy illusion beliefs we base our lives upon because we are attached to them at the level of ego-personality-identification. The false worldview can be shed by coming out of the mind control we are embedded in by learning and understanding more about the reality of ourselves within and the current condition of the world around us.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Who made Cicero the be all end all decider of logic?!?!

a reply to: JoshuaCox
Other people have followed the same logic.
Cicero borrowed that line of argument from Aristotle and others.
Thomas Aquinas borrowed it from Cicero and Aristotle.
I cited Cicero only because I read his version long before I knew about any of the others.

So there is no point in attacking individuals here.
If you want to show that the argument is wrong, you have to direct your critique on the argument itself.
It's called doing philosophy.

a reply to: Pachomius

St Anselm will always play a big part in my Life. You could say that he played an instrumental part in making me believe again. I still have to get my head around what he was talking about but he spoke the truth, I think?

It is a conceptual truth (or, so to speak, true by definition) that God is a being than which none greater can be imagined (that is, the greatest possible being that can be imagined).

God exists as an idea in the mind.

A being that exists as an idea in the mind and in reality is, other things being equal, greater than a being that exists only as an idea in the mind.

Thus, if God exists only as an idea in the mind, then we can imagine something that is greater than God (that is, a greatest possible being that does exist).

But we cannot imagine something that is greater than God (for it is a contradiction to suppose that we can imagine a being greater than the greatest possible being that can be imagined.)

Therefore, God exists.

Your post reminded me of the above

a reply to: DpatC
For anyone who wants to look it up, that is known as the Ontological Argument.
CUR DEUS HOMO; I've got a translated edition.

I wonder why people are so offended by people having different opinions to theirs.
Although having said that I'm offended by agnosticism, it's like going to a basketball game and cheering for the refs.

But the OP is infallible. He didn't say proof of god, he said what proves god to him.
I could say that the earth being flat is proof of god to me and be 100% right.

Personally I think god by definition would be beyond our understanding therefore anyone claiming knowledge of god is greatly overestimating their ability to understand. I also think the people claiming there isn't a god are greatly overestimating their ability to understand. I am an atheist however, and any delusions of grandeur I have only make me more confident.

Theism vs Atheism is possibly the most important question and even the theories that aren't mine need to be considered.
The choice between listening to Christian rock or an eternity in hell isn't a choice that can be made lightly.

If God is Omnipotent, and is always behinds the scenes, wouldnt a better question be...

How does one convince God to prove that it exists as it been said in some of the writings of those who were said to spoke an did feats for god. Some blatant stroke of dumb luck, or something that made ones day, a terrible misfortune that went in the opposite direction.

a reply to: Specimen

That's a scary question to ask with 4 possible answers.

1. You can't convince him, he ain't there.
2. You can't convince him, he's there but it's best if you don't know.
3. You can't convince him, but you can offend him.

Or the truly horrifying answer....
4. You can convince him, god exists and he's too dumb to beat you in an argument.

originally posted by: Misterlondon
This is not proof God exists.. It's your opinion..

But if 95% of the world agreed on anything else like they do in a Creator then it would be considered fact, right?

Believing in God is nearly universal yet unprovable, for now.

a reply to: DISRAELI

FFair enough but there are countless cisero got wrong..

a reply to: Pachomius

I think your logic is good...

Its observable by our common perceptions that everything has a beginning and an end.

A belief in God, though, transcends the near perceptions onto the higher perceptions dealing with the heart


Also, the God concept as understood by some is illogical and child like and not possible by a reasonable analysis to be valid, and other’s very reasonable.

Therefore, what has to be taken in consideration regarding this question is ones conception of God.

originally posted by: Tempter

originally posted by: Misterlondon
This is not proof God exists.. It's your opinion..

But if 95% of the world agreed on anything else like they do in a Creator then it would be considered fact, right?

Believing in God is nearly universal yet unprovable, for now.

If 95% of people believed it was going to rain cows & chickens, around the globe, all night, it would not be considered fact.

My concept of God transcends the idea of just being some kind of super being.

I add what I call the systems of God, such as worlds, levels, dimensions and attributes, evolution, revolution, time, and other things.


In other words God is a noun and a verb, he or she is system and administrator

If God does indeed exist, it is a certainty that He wishes to remain hidden. So why in the world would anyone look for proof of God's existence with His material creation??
But, his handy work is all around us, some recognize it right away, others say it is all a grand eternal accident (very much knowing that accidents do not create structure, but destroy it) and deny God.
Another thing is certain, your, his, hers, mine and any opinions about the matter, plays no role in the truth of the matter.

The reason why religions…and this is something they get half right...associate things like belief in angels, resurrection, good and evil, and other things related to God is a proof of my analysis, I say with humility.

God is a dynamic being and these concepts above actually deal with all the questions we have to God about our plight….Though we aren’t satisfied.

What is interesting here and apropos is the idea that the Buddha rejected the notion of God.


I believe Buddha rejected the notion of the sky-god-- that Santa Clause, superman type being that the almost infantile believers have erected from our various religions. The kind of God that people say loves only them, their race, their religion.


Such a God doesn’t exist, and that is observable clearly, imho.

a reply to: Akragon

The heart expands and contracts because the muscle is stimulated by energy(same as the universe)...

energy is the mover...always has been...

A2D

"So I search for everything with a beginning to its existence. "

If a Creator exists, he must exist outside this creation of space-time. And without time there is no beginning, nor end, which defeats your arguments for a Creator.

But we can examine the likelihood of a creator by examining the creation. Using mathematics to deduce if the creation has been finely tuned to allow life to exist or not. The following list is by no means complete, it seems all the laws of physics have been finely tuned to allow life to flourish. With odds so large they outnumber the number of particles in the universe.

But best of all is Quantum theory, Telling us that we are all ONE, Something many religions have been teaching for thousands of years. We are in GOD and GOD is in us.

1. Carbon resonance and the strong force. Although the abundance of hydrogen, helium and lithium are well-explained by known physical principles, the formation of heavier elements, beginning with carbon, very sensitively depends on the balance of the strong and weak forces. If the strong force were slightly stronger or slightly weaker (by just 1% in either direction), there would be no carbon or any heavier elements anywhere in the universe, and thus no carbon-based life forms like us to ask why.

2. The proton-to-electron mass ratio. A neutron's mass is slightly more than the combined mass of a proton, an electron and a neutrino. If the neutron were very slightly less massive, then it could not decay without energy input. If its mass were lower by 1%, then isolated protons would decay instead of neutrons, and very few atoms heavier than lithium could form.

3. The cosmological constant. Perhaps the most startling instance of fine-tuning is the cosmological constant paradox. This derives from the fact that when one calculates, based on known principles of quantum mechanics, the "vacuum energy density" of the universe, focusing on the electromagnetic force, one obtains the incredible result that empty space "weighs" 1,093g per cubic centimetre (cc). The actual average mass density of the universe, 10-28g per cc, differs by 120 orders of magnitude from theory.

link

a reply to: glend

I apologize for the length of this but please read in its entirety. I was forwarded this a few weeks ago and well seems kinda relevant to this thread.

Professor : You are a Christian, aren’t you, son ?

Student : Yes, sir.

Professor: So, you believe in GOD ?

Student : Absolutely, sir.

Professor : Is GOD good ?

Student : Sure.

Professor: Is GOD all powerful ?

Student : Yes.

Professor: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to GOD to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But GOD didn’t. How is this GOD good then? Hmm?

(Student was silent.)

Professor: You can’t answer, can you ? Let’s start again, young fella. Is GOD good?

Student : Yes.

Professor: Is satan good ?

Student : No.

Professor: Where does satan come from ?

Student : From … GOD …

Professor: That’s right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?

Student : Yes.

Professor: Evil is everywhere, isn’t it ? And GOD did make everything. Correct?

Student : Yes.

Professor: So who created evil ?

(Student did not answer.)

Professor: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don’t they?

Student : Yes, sir.

Professor: So, who created them ?

(Student had no answer.)

Professor: Science says you have 5 Senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son, have you ever seen GOD?

Student : No, sir.

Professor: Tell us if you have ever heard your GOD?

Student : No , sir.

Professor: Have you ever felt your GOD, tasted your GOD, smelt your GOD? Have you ever had any sensory perception of GOD for that matter?

Student : No, sir. I’m afraid I haven’t.

Professor: Yet you still believe in Him?

Student : Yes.

Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your GOD doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son?

Student : Nothing. I only have my faith.

Professor: Yes, faith. And that is the problem Science has.

Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat?

Professor: Yes.

Student : And is there such a thing as cold?

Professor: Yes.

Student : No, sir. There isn’t.

(The lecture theater became very quiet with this turn of events.)

Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don’t have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.

(There was pin-drop silence in the lecture theater.)

Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?

Professor: Yes. What is night if there isn’t darkness?

Student : You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light. But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and its called darkness, isn’t it? In reality, darkness isn’t. If it is, well you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you?

Professor: So what is the point you are making, young man ?

Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.

Professor: Flawed ? Can you explain how?

Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good GOD and a bad GOD. You are viewing the concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can’t even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing.

Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?

Professor: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.

Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?

(The Professor shook his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument was going.)

Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor. Are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?

(The class was in uproar.)

Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor’s brain?

(The class broke out into laughter. )

Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor’s brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

(The room was silent. The Professor stared at the student, his face unfathomable.)

Professor: I guess you’ll have to take them on faith, son.

Student : That is it sir … Exactly ! The link between man & GOD is FAITH. That is all that keeps things alive and moving.