Home Defense in AU

You think it's bad in OZ this is going round a lot of retired UK cops social media

Pretty much how it is!
Officer Problem
This just about says it all
How do you tell the difference between an Australian Police Officer, an English Police Officer,
an American Police Officer and a Scottish police officer? The answer is found below.
QUESTION: You’re a policeman, on duty by yourself. You are walking on a deserted street late
at night.
Suddenly, an armed man with a huge knife comes around the corner, locks eyes with you and
screaming something that sounds like obscenities, raises the knife and lunges at you.
You are carrying your truncheon and are an expert in using it. However, you have only a split
second to react before he reaches you. What do you do?
ANSWERS:
English Police Officer:
Firstly, the Officer must consider the man's human rights.
1) Does the man look poor and/or oppressed?
2) Is he newly arrived in this country and does not yet understand the law?
3) Is this really a knife or a ceremonial dagger?
4) Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack?
5) Am I dressed provocatively?
6) Could I run away?
7) Could I possibly swing my truncheon and knock the knife out of his hand?
😎 Should I try and negotiate with him to discuss his wrong-doings?
9) Why am I carrying a truncheon anyway and what kind of message does this send to society?
10) Does he definitely want to kill me or would he be content just to wound me?
11) If I were to grab his knees and hold on, would he still want to stab and kill me?
12) If I raise my truncheon and he turns and runs away, do I get blamed if he falls over,
knocks his head and kills himself?
13) If I hurt him and lose the subsequent court case, does he have the opportunity to sue me,
cost me my job, my credibility and the loss of my family home?
Australian Police Officer:
BANG !
American Police Officer:
BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG !
'Click'...Reload...
BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG !
Glasgow Police Officer:
"Haw, Jimmie....! Drop the wee knifie son; rite noo, ....unless ye want it stuck up yer arse!"

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

If, in the act of defending your home and family, a criminal is harmed, what sort of laws does Australia have in regards to that?

Would the homeowner be held liable?

a reply to: DBCowboy
In the Uk we have a law of reasonable force ie. you can only use a reasonable amount of force to disarm a crim. The courts decide what is reasonable force. If found you exceeded reasonable force you WILL be treated like the offending party and sentenced as such, with compensation given to the criminal and depending on your reasonable force you could be looking at a prison sentence.

a reply to: crayzeed

I strongly dislike the idea of a criminal getting rewarded for suffering an attack while they were committing a crime.

Can you Aussies use a Super Soaker (TM) filled with household ammonia or maybe kangaroo urine? Of course only if the perpetrators have no firearms or you could get the drop on them.

Always aim for the head and eyes. Works very well on most living things...

originally posted by: crayzeed
a reply to: DBCowboy
In the Uk we have a law of reasonable force ie. you can only use a reasonable amount of force to disarm a crim. The courts decide what is reasonable force. If found you exceeded reasonable force you WILL be treated like the offending party and sentenced as such, with compensation given to the criminal and depending on your reasonable force you could be looking at a prison sentence.

Can criminals only use a reasonable amount of force to assault you?

That's a messed up law in my books. Criminals, by breaking the law in the first place shouldn't have such a right while in commitance of a violent crime.

Don't know if its the truth, but when I got to Germany I was told you are to always runaway and call the police.

I asked even in your home they said yes, if my wife is trapped upstairs I am supposed to leave the home and call the police.

Its insanity..

Edit to add: I always preferred the advice I got from a state DA when he spoke to our high school, someone breaks into your home you make certain they are dead before you call the police, then the first words out of your mouth are I was afraid for my life, and there is nobody alive to contradict your story.

a reply to: DBCowboy
Well strike me with a wet kipper, I don't like it either but that's the law in the UK.
In answer to Pavil:- Oh in the UK criminals have rights too even if they are committing the crime at the time. An example:- a person cannot use any "booby trap" devices but even if the criminal hurts himself on your property, if he could show that you left your property or belongings in a dangerous state he has the right to prosecute you for injury or damages. Even if he got injured in the process of his crime.

originally posted by: badw0lf

originally posted by: TDawg61
Make Australia Great Again.MAGA,Oey,oey,oey!

We dont have real people in politics here.

Are there any real people in politics anywhere anymore?

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

What area were they reporting on?

Anyway, to be completely honest, I really couldn't care less that we're not allowed to own firearms for the purpose of self defence... Don't get me wrong, I'm not inherently against guns. Its more like I got 99 problems and not being able own a gun for self defence ain't one.

From my experience its extremely rare to be a victim of house invasion and it only usually happens to drug dealers and people associated with criminals... Not saying houses are never randomly targeted, its just rare, like being struck by Lightning... I feel its just extremely paranoid for people to be in constant fear of it happening to them.

If it wasn't such a hassle to legally purchase firearms in Australia, then I probably would take advantage of it, for hunting & general recreation or whatever. But even then I'd always ensure they were unloaded and locked away when not in use... so they'd be completely useless anyway, if some (so called) 'bad guy' run though my house with no warning to kill me... for the purpose of, 'just because'!

I do have some other major issues with the so called "nanny state" though... The way their taxing us to death for alcohol and cigarettes (apparently for our own good) is nothing short of criminal! Seems like you've got to just about be a bloody millionaire these days to uphold your right as a grown adult to be a functioning alcoholic these days, if thats what you choice to do... Oh and what about legalizing cannabis... seems like the possibility of it happening is at least gaining traction in countries all over the world, but still feels like it'll be a cold day in hell before it'll even be considered here... and even if they did it, it'd be bitter sweat, since the government would tax it at $80 a gram anyway!

Yeah... guns are a non-issue, imo... Theirs far more important issues to worry about in Australia, when it comes to social injustice by our "nanny state".

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I won't be doing any hiding, but i will be seeking.

Anyone who breaks into my home is going to win a Darwin Award.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

If, in the act of defending your home and family, a criminal is harmed, what sort of laws does Australia have in regards to that?

Would the homeowner be held liable?

I don't really know, without researching it, the same way you could... Each state would have their own legislation on the issue.

End of the day though, it'd all come down to if the police felt it was justified and how much you can you can afford to spend on court costs and lawyers to defend your actions... not so much different than in the US, yeah?

The justice system is always far more understanding & lenient, when you have the funds to convince them your an upstanding citizen and your actions were justified.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
End of the day though, it'd all come down to if the police felt it was justified and how much you can you can afford to spend on court costs and lawyers to defend your actions... not so much different than in the US, yeah?

Actually it is quite different. Most states have what is called castle doctrine where you are not obligated to retreat from a home invader.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
End of the day though, it'd all come down to if the police felt it was justified and how much you can you can afford to spend on court costs and lawyers to defend your actions... not so much different than in the US, yeah?

Actually it is quite different. Most states have what is called castle doctrine where you are not obligated to retreat from a home invader.

So, just pretend I'm some poor minority citizen in one of these states that has this law you quoted.

Scenario...

Theirs some dude I don't like, so I invite him over to my house, face to face... no phone records and no other witnesses.

He comes over, I put 2 rounds into his head... I ring the police and tell them he just turned up on my porch and attacked me, for no good reason...

Are you trying to tell me that in this scenario, the police are just going take my word for it and won't press charges?

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
He comes over, I put 2 rounds into his head... I ring the police and tell them he just turned up on my porch and attacked me, for no good reason...

You cannot shoot someone on your porch in my state, they need to be in your home.

Here in USA it all depends on context.

When I lived in the urban/hip hop area of a major city, I was the victim of home invasion. now I live rural, and criminals spend a lot of effort to guarantee no one is home when they break in.

Generally, thieves break into businesses at night, homes during the day.

/political correctness off/
The white areas of USA has a violent crime rate the same as NW Europe. The Hispanic areas are Halfway between the numbers for Latin America. The black areas are midway between whites and South Africa. Other Anthropological data suggests crime is a function of culture rather than of race.
/political correctness on/

Justice in America feels random. You might get first-rate police-work; you seem just as likely to get a van full of fascists in riot gear. The only uniquely American thing is that bribes/mordida are completely unknown here. Cops don't even charge people who offer a bribe; just tell them to put their money away.

Guns are power. Some people wish you didn't need power to interact with society and keep your family safe. The police are always certain that you don't need power – only THEY do.



The wolves always complain that the sheep refuse to compromise.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
He comes over, I put 2 rounds into his head... I ring the police and tell them he just turned up on my porch and attacked me, for no good reason...

You cannot shoot someone on your porch in my state, they need to be in your home.

Well ok then... exact same scenario, but I let him come into my house first and shot him in my living room... I tell the police he forced his way in...

Are you trying to tell me they wouldn't press charges in this scenario?

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
Well ok then... exact same scenario, but I let him come into my house first and shot him in my living room... I tell the police he forced his way in...

Are you trying to tell me they wouldn't press charges in this scenario?

Not exactly a home invasion if they guy is invited in, now is it?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
Well ok then... exact same scenario, but I let him come into my house first and shot him in my living room... I tell the police he forced his way in...

Are you trying to tell me they wouldn't press charges in this scenario?

Not exactly a home invasion if they guy is invited in, now is it?

Stop procrastinating and playing word games... in my scenario the shooter claims the deceased forced his way in... their are no witnesses to claim any different.

Do the police press charges, or just take his word for it?

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
Stop procrastinating and playing word games... in my scenario the shooter claims the deceased forced his way in... their are no witnesses to claim any different.

So there will be signs of forced entry? Broken door jambs? Smashed windows and the like? And the forensic team will be conned by someone not familiar with how those things typically work? Sounds believable.