Nationalizing part of the stock exchange can balance the economy

Nationalizing part of the stock exchange can balance the economy

And people wonder why there's so much interest in decentralized money.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: toysforadults
Since you are arguing for the continuation of our current economic paradigm do you think everything is working just fine or do think we need to make changes?

In the context of your Luddite-like paranoia about automation from the Original Post I don't think there is an issue.

As Schuyler pointed out every single time there has been a technological revolution where people feared for the future it has always been a benefit to society and people learned new skills and/or professions if they wanted to work.

That was before AI (note "AI" is simple, and its all around us already. Its the bots in your video game, its running the stock market, etc. "AGI" is 'Skynet' style AI [and thats a whole nother level of the disaster we face in tech...]).

But please do explain how if half the retail, half the driving, 20% of the construction, etc etc etc etc etc across the board jobs for regular folks are completely WIPED OUT how regular common folks are going to rebound. Especially when 'high level' jobs are being wiped out too constantly pushing them down into the lower levels displacing them as we all know the college person does get hired before the not college. So # shall continue to roll downhill like it already is.

Its already happened, its forces can already be felt, from jobs to national debt to concentration of wealth our elite masters are stacking this snip against us and its clear and present.

And then we're not allowed to challenge how to balance the equation, despite the reality that they've been rigging the game to artificially distribute wealth upwards and away from the 95%.

So hand it all over, let them phase us all out, and be good little sheep dont challenge it just look to history to solve the advent of intelligent machines like history had anything to tell us. What history DOES show us is the elite masters stomp out the little people over and over and over its part of the design of all civilizations and now we have that (along with 'darkest patterns' of civilization) to guide us in most of what we face.... psychopaths being at the top being one no doubt. And now the psychopaths have intelligent psychopathic machines to do their bidding while they phase us out.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
But please do explain how if half the retail, half the driving, 20% of the construction, etc etc etc etc etc across the board jobs for regular folks are completely WIPED OUT how regular common folks are going to rebound.

How did we get by when the power loom, the harvester, the cotton gin, the electric motor, the internal combustion engine, et. al. were invented?

We create new industries and adapt, just like we have done and will continue to do. People 100 years from now will wonder why some of us had our panic pants on worrying about these things.

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: pirhanna

This thread isn't about exploring Venezuela's failed fascist state. It's also not about the succh, deess of socialization in places like Singapore or Switzerland.

we

Aye see all of Northern Europe post 2007 and saving trillions from suing the banks. See interationional comparisions in terms of wealth, debt, education, happiness, health, wellbeing, quality of life - The US is in the worlds lowest bracket in most areas 1st world nations internationally.

Somehow the US is even lower than Ireland - where kids blow up police riot vans and fire RPGs at soldiers/armed police, loyalist/mationalist terrorist war and decadeds of war and terrorism due to protestant and cathlic religious conflct. It's more like a failed systate/empire, once almighty, now on the innevitable collase that's been going on and evident since the 60s.

However the stock market doesn't work as you beleive in practice - strongly asvise thiis amazing BBCdocumentary on how, why, who created it with full admissions by the main architects on camera extactly usryhow they didthis - covers t US/UK and the entire trap of stockmarkets and mechanisation of indistustry.

Tl;dr - Good ides but not possible in practie - The US abandonned deomocracy in the pre/early Clinton era - covers all parties.

This teaser will explain just how badly broken the system is, told by those who made the system - i.e reality, not conspiracy/twisting words/using wrong sources..etc.... many journalists fail at.

Also worth reading the founding text/philosophy 'The Twilight of Sovereignty' written by the ex head of CitiCorp in 1982-ish - it completelly outlines how the market and economy would take complete control of freedom and, deomocracy and politics by taking control and using the market domitate/give false impression of choice, freedom etc..by providing the illusion of choice when shopping.

It's evil but brilliant as the public hardly even vote now, let alone how to take down these companies as they think buying new expensive shiney things they don't need to line the pckets of the businesses and increase their power, while decreasing public knowlege of 'The Trap'
youtu.be...

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
But please do explain how if half the retail, half the driving, 20% of the construction, etc etc etc etc etc across the board jobs for regular folks are completely WIPED OUT how regular common folks are going to rebound.

How did we get by when the power loom, the harvester, the cotton gin, the electric motor, the internal combustion engine, et. al. were invented?

We create new industries and adapt, just like we have done and will continue to do. People 100 years from now will wonder why some of us had our panic pants on worrying about these things.

True for in the past but if current mathematical models are to be bleived we have 25 - 50 years at best - unless magic new energy and resources are found. (exponenstion growth in population and resources required is will outstrip the linear decline in current recouces in eigth years. From then on, it's a rough ride.

Can't remember official name but known colloquially as the 'Grimm Equation' as nearly every Mathematician working on it comited suicide due to the findings.

As for automisation Etc see BBC docs 'All Watched over By Machines of Loving Grace', 'The Trap' We Will Force You To Be Free' comprimises about 12 hours of interviews with hte creators of said automation.

Whilw you seem incredibly intelligentm witty and from what I gather you've done some economic'dy inter find them vers and run business - I think you'd find them very interesting viewing.

Machines/automatican are broken by their very design, the use of pure logic/algorithms instead of fuzzy logic that humans are capable of means all a computer does is create an infinite feeback loop based on poor, incomcomplete, data that has been reduced to absurdity - i.e if scared of an econmic collapse, machines would analyse the data and tell the reader to be more scared of collapse - the result bears no resemblancfe to the real world though.

originally posted by: bastion
True for in the past but if current mathematical models are to be bleived we have 25 - 50 years at best - unless magic new energy and resources are found.

I'm sure the technology of 100 years from now will look just as magical as ours would to someone in the 1800's.

Can't remember official name but known colloquially as the 'Grimm Equation' as nearly every Mathematician working on it comited suicide due to the findings.

I find that very hard to believe.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus


Will dig it out 'Was told about it by Dave Parker of Jereriah Horrocks Mathematical Insitute - part of maths degree - worked with Don Kurtz, Richard J Tuffs of Max Plank, ESA, NASA/SDO project, SPICA telescope)

Maybe you're drunk as I am but the problem it points out is we wont have 100 years to invent the tech, the rapid decline in food, water, rources kicks in at best in 30 years - 60 years to be able to develop and role one out.

ETA: It's part of the Malthus' model - conclusion is the only act of altruism is suicide, - A guy named Price, studied it - was stolen by Richard Dawkin's for his Selfish Gene theft of the work, he ended up giving all his elongings away and slitting his writs without use of painkillers -

Very basic intro here - but probably a long way beneath your current awareness - www.ssc.wisc.edu...

Mods feel free to edit post as don't anyone panicing/selfharming.

originally posted by: bastion
Maybe you're drunk...

No, quite sober.

...as I am but the problem it points out is we wont have 100 years to invent the tech, the rapid decline in food, water, rources kicks in at best in 30 years - 60 years to be able to develop and role one out.

I didn't say it would take 100 years, new technology is constantly being invented, solutions to our problems, real and perceived will be devised.

a reply to: toysforadults

LOL, you'll figure out what to do for a job. As my father always said, hunger is a great motivator.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Ahh, well I raise a toast to you.

My mistake, minsterpreted your post - fully agree with your position. Was working on JSF (Can we call it that? whatever the 'secre't new US VTOL stealth 5tth/6th gen fighter for BAE on work experience at age 14 ( nearly 2 years ago - only took a week to design the eing nut fittings that made it to final design - CATIA design is a godsend.

My Great Grandad Stephen P. Timochenko was thrown out the Ukraine for plotting a revolution, he made it to the UK, went to Cambridge, won all awards in Physics and Mathematics in his first year so they invented a Timoshenko model and gave his £5000 is those days.

He sailed to New York and was heaad of Mechanics/Engindeering at Hardard, Stanford and MIchigan Unis, before being made Royal Society world head authority in teaching and creating/engineering. ---- Was all done in a decade as being a peasant having to flee half the world to avoid murder acts as a great motivator..

Why only 30%? If you’re going bolshevik you need to go full on Bolshevik..

a reply to: bastion

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Should I just rewrite my exact same words to you, like you just did to me?

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Should I just rewrite my exact same words to you, like you just did to me?

If the little people were 'stomped out' why are there now more of them than ever?

originally posted by: BlueAjah

What? Are you talking about the government taking over 30% of the stock market?

Noooooo.
I hope you are joking around.

I suggest you come around to the idea now.

Trump is unhappy that his talking point (The Stock Market) embarrassed him.

In the tradition of Russia, China and other less than democratic countries, the solution is to "Nationalize" the free-market some.

Don't see it as anti-free-markets...see it as pro-USA!...MAGA!

Swallow the pill now and you will have less back-peddling to do when Trump suggests it.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
How did we get by when the power loom, the harvester, the cotton gin, the electric motor, the internal combustion engine, et. al. were invented?

I couldnt come up with a more perfect specimen from history by which we might project our future.

The Cotton Gin led to a proliferation of slavery in the South, when it had been on an outward decline for decades and was expected to fade out naturally like 'everywhere' else 'on earth' around that time.

Instead we saw a concentration of wealth in both the north and the south due to it.

That's all before we even get into the robberbarron exploitation rampant in the factories there where the "free" factory whites had it hardly any better than the black slaves in the south for serious periods in serious masse across the 1800's Industrial Revolution.

But the Cotton Gin it led to the Civil War then, and still has our nation in a constant fickle peril ever since.

And it didnt do a damn bit of good for commoners. Instead it got them blowd up; had them fighting "brother versus brother" stomping each others faces into the mud and blowing each others brains out with vicious weaponry.

Eventually they turned the harvesting and the processing over to full machine processing. That would be about the time the blacks were "free". I wonder how many jobs that left the Experts, all those blacks in the south lots of farm jobs after that? Maybe they wouldnt have been so economically challenged moving forward to today???

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Poverty drives population growth.



(seriously look it up)

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

That's all before we even get into the robberbarron exploitation rampant in the factories there where the "free" factory whites had it hardly any better than the black slaves in the south for serious periods in serious masse across the 1800's Industrial Revolution.

You realize that slaves were slaves because they didn't get the right skills right? They didn't work hard to get ahead the conditions around them had nothing to do with where they were in life.

Same thing with the Irish and Chinese miners. They just didn't want to become plumbers and electricians and start from the bottom and work their way up. The conditions of the economy and what was happening around them played no roll in their personal choices and wanting to work in coal mines.

a reply to: toysforadults

In the 1800's the factory jobs were mostly brutal, and they were forced to work sick hours about every day and if they went on strike the Pinkerton Army would get called in to gun them down.

The factories mainly centered around iron/steel production / manufacturing, and textiles, where coal plants were part of about every place (until gas started getting phased in late 1800). Even when they started phasing in electric they still would often have to power it up with coal / gas. SO you had all that heat, which just running the electric motor on cool power lines-in still generate heat.

But the most common jobs outside of the HEAVY industry was textile mills (to process all that cotton), still hot as hell, little children down inside the machines. Hot. Dirt. Dust. Lose limbs. BS pay. Sick hours. Treated like dirt. Ask for a raise and get a pay cut. About the only relief they probably got was it was colder in winter so it might have actually been 'just about bearable' in winter inside. It was no accident all the steel mills and major factories were positioned in the north until about NAFTA when they sent them to Mexico (in the age of AC or is it Mexican sweat shop slave labor??).

When my video series gets to the 1800's it'll be heavy about all this stuff...

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss


I would say if you want to worry about the future than have at it. It's gonna show up regardless.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Like a runaway high speed freight train splattering a pallet load of rotten tomatoes...

well maybe if we de-rotten thyselves a few ticks in the meantime it wont inherently play out so bad....