Coast 2 Coast AM last night with Hal Puthoff and Eric Davis

originally posted by: Paddyofurniture
a reply to: Lathroper

Thank you Lathroper. I appreciate your point of view. It is intelligent argument that helps promote change.

Thanks for your gentle reply and not scorn me for offering a dissenting point of view. As John Lennon sang: "Just give me some truth". When it comes to UFOlogy there hasn't been anything new for the longest time and what we get is nothing but rehash. In case you haven't noticed this forum is devoid of new UFO cases, no one is getting abducted any more, no cattle are being mutilated, no one is seeing alien anomalies on the moon and the ones on Mars are due to pareidolia. Life just goes on with fewer and fewer surprises. Even Stanton Friedman is eerily silent!!

Back in 1962 I said to a coworker who was driving me home and he had the radio playing the boring music of 1962 and I asked him: "I wonder what is going to be new in rock 'n' roll" and, bam! the Beatles arrived.

Now, in 2018 I ask: "I wonder what's going to be new in UFOlogy".

a reply to: Lathroper

Now, in 2018 I ask: "I wonder what's going to be new in UFOlogy".

I think we're beginning to see the start of a new phenomenon in reports of people's various devices dropping ads. Like ufo reports, most are easily explainable and some will be hoaxes. It's looking like the new folklore.

Further afield, I expect an increase in UFO sighting reports due to the Cold War returning. The media is already turning to propaganda which usually runs hand in glove with increases in military and Intel activities.

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: Paddyofurniture

I listened to a goodly portion of it and was pretty impressed by the people interviewed.

My take away, was a) it was interesting how the first guest, Dr. Eric Davis slammed the US UFO community for its knee jerk reaction to any material presented on UFO's in the form of dismissing everything as fake. He noted that in the 1980's the UFO community response was typically "let us see the material, examine the data, examine the photos and reports and we'll get back to you". Today's response is "if its video, its CGI, if its first hand account, its made-up BS. He went on to note that the EU UFO community is pretty disgusted with their US counterparts and that the EU UFO community likes to dig into scientific analysis of any and all evidence to determine its validity.

B), the second guest Puthoff went into a rather detailed anaylsis of the data from the Nimitz incident and pointed out that there was more than just cockpit video (dismissed as CGI); that there were radar returns, radar tracking and multiple witnesses. His point being that there was sufficient hard evidence to rule out the phenomenon as have been the product of a natural event or a human made event.

I maintain an open mind to the entire thing although the piece about remote viewing strikes me as suspect.

Thanks.

Very nice of you to take the time to write out the synopsis. Thank you.

I think his desription of the UFO community is dead accurate. One need only be around here for 10 minutes to see it in effect.

Even people who purport to believe in the phenomena like to prove how cool they are to be the first to jump in with some warmed over cynic explanation and not take it under advisement or even show some appreciation for people just putting stuff out there that has questions.

This is a field where we only have to be right once, and it changes everything. So, for most things, we should not jump to conclusions and do a little analysis. I don't pretend to have the experience to do it, but I'm disappointed in seeing so little done.

That's not even addressing the people paid to monitor these sites and cut down any legitimate line of inquiry, and I see happening over in the 9-11 threads where I see a group of 3 to 4 that always seem to be "on call" for any new questions that arise, with tons of dripping hatred and disgust with someone asking questions.

It's not as bad with UFO but I can detect some, and only a fool would believe that no one watches these sites to see what is trending on the black stuff

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: Lathroper

Now, in 2018 I ask: "I wonder what's going to be new in UFOlogy".

I think we're beginning to see the start of a new phenomenon in reports of people's various devices dropping ads. Like ufo reports, most are easily explainable and some will be hoaxes. It's looking like the new folklore.

Further afield, I expect an increase in UFO sighting reports due to the Cold War returning. The media is already turning to propaganda which usually runs hand in glove with increases in military and Intel activities.

I don't expect a radical change. More people carry cellphones than the good ol' camcorder but the newer cellphones are more sophisticated with better optics and more pixelage. Still, the majority of people on the street are not straining to look skyward unless they see someone looking up and curiosity kicks in and they check out what the person is staring at as happened to me many times. I saw a UFO but the person walking towards was not looking up, I was. So there is a large number of unreported UFOs because they're up there, just not being noticed.

Because of the continuous aerial activity, UFOs are not going to become folklore since there will always be sightings. But since the sightings have become mundane, interest is being lost since no one has ever captured real clear footage of other than flyovers. And all of the landing reports without good video fall by the wayside. We need a clear video of a closeup in daylight with enough reference material and witnesses to take it out of the hoax category. If that were to happen, then the new Beatles have arrived.

I still scan the sky when I'm outside with my digicam ready to shoot video. But I had that opportunity a couple of times and both times I blew it. I have confidence that people will be able to tell the difference between an anomalous aerial object and any new intel.

It has always seemed that UFOs don't give a hang about us and if they have a sense of humor I wish we could hear their cosmic laughter.

Puthoff went into a rather detailed analysis of the data from the Nimitz incident and pointed out that there was more than just cockpit video; that there were radar returns, radar tracking and multiple witnesses. His point being that there was sufficient hard evidence to rule out the phenomenon as having been the product of a natural event or a human made event.

I hope he is right, but if he is: why such sloppy analysis of what could be the biggest scientific discovery of the millennium?

If there really is “hard evidence”, he could publish it in a peer reviewed scientific journal and get a Nobel Prize for publishing the first irrefutable case of alien visitation.

Instead, nobody from the TTSA has even bothered to do a frame by frame analysis of the videos, they left that to the internet community. Only two of the six eye witnesses were interviewed. And the radar data is nowhere to be seen.

Dr. Eric Davis slammed the US UFO community for its knee jerk reaction to any material presented on UFO's in the form of dismissing everything as fake.

Why does he even bother about the ‘UFO community’? If you call your institute an ‘academy’ you should bother about scientific methods and the scientific community. Where is his first scientific publication about the phenomenon? Where is the discussion in the scientific community? If you have solid data, they will be interested.

originally posted by: Harpua
The most interesting moment in the Puthoff interview was when Knapp asked him if the recovered materials meant that he was confirming that there was crashed craft that was recovered. Puthoff delayed answering for maybe 10 or 15 seconds and then finally says something like: "any event like that would be classified so highly it would not be possible to discuss"

Its not exactly evidence of anything, but it was an exciting moment if you actually believe anything these intelligence figures say.

Having worked with the I.C. for many years, Mr. Puthoff would know to the depths
of his bones, that he must promote "the big lie" put out there since after WWII,
that ships have crashed, and as a result the US Govt has recovered alien tech,
and thus Russia should be afraid of us.

If Mr. Puthoff has full confirmation that some of those few "mystery metals" are
(as my theory put forward in 2013) actually "debris of materialization" he might
later on admit to that.. but even still.. wouldn't dispute "the big lie", without
full approval.

a reply to: Kandinsky

What's your BTUFO theory these days?

The things are still everywhere.. generally begging to be seen
over large population centers..

Yet two people can stand next to each other.. one person
sees "it" in full technicolor and is changed, often negatively
for the rest of their life. The other person might see nothing
at all.

Sure you can say Conversion Disorder.. or "Fake UFOs flown
over to promote the myth" and stuff like that.. talk about
the Aurora or space planes is just lame.. none of the
scientists I know will give that theory any credence
whatsoever..

95% of UFOlogy is a hoax.. seems obvious.. but what about
the 5% that burns people with radiation and flies low over
our cities?

What's your theory on that?

I'd be OK with you claiming it's just another form of government
deception.. but if that's the claim.. it's a fairly exotic deception,
and BTUFO have been seen for hundreds or thousands of years.

TY

PS:

If our government really had "star trek level tech" then these
insiders who have been involved with everything from day one
would NOT be chasing after "ghosts" for "scraps". One does
not do that, when you already have the magical artifacts
in your possession. And "compartmentalization" is not the
answer.. some of these guys have been involved with
"above top secret" level stuff from day one.

That "breakaway tech really exists and all evidence is
perfectly hidden" is an argument on the same level
as claiming Jesus is real.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I don't have a BTUFO explanation or at least not enough of one to present. They're mired in folklore and unreliable witnesses which makes it difficult to discern a signal in the noise. Then again, the noise could be the signal we should attend to. You know I'm circumspect.

As for the 'PS,' most of the terms and nouns in there would need to be made explicit to have an informed conversation. I'm not sure any of us are in a position to define them.

Sorry if I'm coming across as obscure or obtuse.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I don't have a BTUFO explanation or at least not enough of one to present. They're mired in folklore and unreliable witnesses which makes it difficult to discern a signal in the noise. Then again, the noise could be the signal we should attend to. You know I'm circumspect.

As for the 'PS,' most of the terms and nouns in there would need to be made explicit to have an informed conversation. I'm not sure any of us are in a position to define them.

Sorry if I'm coming across as obscure or obtuse.

I don't mind that you are circumspect. It balances out certain very *NOISY*
posters *cough*.

That said.. I"m a 5 star witness in some ways.. mufon investigated my sighting.
Jacques Vallee investigated my sighting. It doesn't get better than that.

there can be no doubt that I saw *something unusual*.

But like you've said.. we've all said.. we've plenty of UFO reports..
just no UFO's.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I think there should always be reasonable doubt when we believe we've seen something unusual. I've had a sighting that included other people and it remains quite a vivid memory. They still remember it too. In spite of that, doubts are all I have.

Life of Pi. We're all individuals adrift on seas of liminality and accompanied by Schrödinger's Cheshire cat.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I think there should always be reasonable doubt when we believe we've seen something unusual. I've had a sighting that included other people and it remains quite a vivid memory. They still remember it too. In spite of that, doubts are all I have.

Life of Pi. We're all individuals adrift on seas of liminality and accompanied by Schrödinger's Cheshire cat.

Indeed.

But perhaps you've noticed the little read wagon?

In some manner, it would seem that the entire universe is playing us like a musical
instrument at our expense.. at least part of it.

A long time ago it was the "seelie and unseelie court" (good and evil Fae courts).
In the dark ages it was "demons" and "angels".
In the Golden Age of UFO's it was "comical characters".

These days we have the imposing BTUFO. But for "friends of the Fae folk" to use
a metaphor, they will wag the tail on the sighting.. to let you know they like
you.. (which is what happened with me).

We need to keep our sense of humor.. and stop being so dark.. and show that we
are good sports too..

Or we could continue going slowly insane as a species.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I'll probably reply tomorrow.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Well with the A**** thing we have a very messy situation that we can't properly
discuss anyway.

T&C forbid discussing members, tho (as you see) we all, including mods, skirt
around that all the time.

I truly don't want to resurrect the psyop again.. but I did, didn't I?

I know that a very respected person or two in the aircraft forum said some interesting
things..

And then there was that frenzy on the part of some.. trying to make their star trek
fantasy come true.. by coming through patent applications and trying to be one
of the "cool kids" on this topic.

Well.

I myself talked to the member that I'm "not referencing" and he/she admitted to
being unemployed and living in his/her mother's basement (I can't make this stuff
up). We talked about various things.. and then a few days later the person I'm
not discussing was no longer around.

But this cult of personality had developed and what to me looked like a horrible new
mental illness developed, and infected some of my friends.

(all IMHO of course).

I also researched a hint that was dropped, and after following it through the darknet,
it led me to a Russian UFO cult leader.

Now I know that mods probably know a lot more than I do, having access to iP addresses
and what not.. but just what I was told and could dig up certainly looked very suspicious..

At one time I also called up the "breakaway civilization conference" and the person I talked
with said that it was all BS, and that they were a Vallee fan! (I kid you not).

There are people making $$$ on this scam.

Really.. I don't have the heart left in me to talk the original "conspiracy" or lack thereof
that may or may not have happened on ATS... I might have interest in talking vanilla
break-away civilization stuff..

But again there, I was in charge of a nuclear engineroom on a nuclear warship.. I've
been in dock watching them be built / refurbished. I had a secret security clearance
and toured "the red october prototype", so to speak.

There aint nobody going to convince me that there is compartmentalized star trek
level tech / ships on Earth / in our solar system.

Not unless some civilization was here before the lats ice-age, and somehow hid
every last nut and bolt to perfection.

There is dead ZERO proof of such a thing ever having been here..

and TONS of proof for one of three other theories, or so, that have NOTHING
to do with "UFOs", whether from "out there", or "built by us".

Anyway..

I hope I didn't cross some line on this topic. There was an entire team organized
to go through the issues back when it happened.


As most people who know me know, watching someone be mind-raped and this
kind of junk "science" injected into them.. really gets me hot under the collar..
it's just another form of religious indoctrination.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

It's always worth being cautious and critical when people come bearing narratives. A good rule of thumb is to assume they are fantasists at best and snake oilers at worst. Amusingly, the same defensive posture works for those who believe they've been contacted by Folk from Elsewhere. Channelled entities bearing narratives and space brothers with stories should be held in great doubt. Many have fallen victim to these siren calls and lost their way

With regards to BTs, is there enough information to say what they are? If the answer is no, there isn't enough to say what they are not. Given the highly subjective nature of experiences, it's hard to put faith in the reports. We face an anomalous experience and project our beliefs upon it.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Good advice.

Like all other liminal objects, you cannot actually focus upon the "BTUFO"
itself.. the more you do, the more it "shifts away". Always one step ahead..
always taunting and laughing.

When you learn more about the world it manifests in, then you start to see the
Little Red Wagon.

It's like paint by number.. say that you want to see the center.. but are currently
out of those colors of paint.

so you paint around it, until the "center" stands out in false relief.

Nobody has ever caught a Unicorn, except once in a movie.. and when
that happened, the world started to die.

Also good to keep in mind.

Even if tomorrow we learned, that there are these lighter than air frames
powered by received Terahertz wavelengths (we don't hardly use these..
so we wouldn't detect them)..

if we caught "them" red-handed.

there would still be "Black Triangle UFOs around the next corner..
they would probably be in another form is all..

Kev

a reply to: Paddyofurniture

here is the link mate
www.popsci.com...

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: Paddyofurniture

here is the link mate

www.popsci.com...

thank you. Pretty cool! I would imagine current technology is capable of this. Composite polymers and a 3D printer. Pretty cool!

a reply to: TonyS

He went on to note that the EU UFO community is pretty disgusted with their US counterparts and that the EU UFO community likes to dig into scientific analysis of any and all evidence to determine its validity.

To an extent he is correct. European ufology with a few exceptions tries to concentrate on the evidence and analysis of cases without jumping to the "dunno what it was must be alienz" conclusion.

I think the problem is that UFOs are an American entertainment business and also seem to suffer from constant meddling by the intel community in America. People have turned it into a money maker by feeding the gullible what they want to hear. Even if a few of them started out with genuine intentions.

So the subject has been a mixed Salla'd, Dotyfied, Howeitzered, Friedmanized, and Greer'd off . Add to that the various 'personalities' on paranormal radio and TV shows inviting you to their Church and an audience with the Pope. At least the Romanek Empire has crumbled. Don't forget Ray Santilli (a Brit) was part of the problem as well.

But there are many genuinely good American people in ufology. So we should not tar them all with the same brush.
I will have to listen to the interview myself though to fully understand what Davis was saying.

originally posted by: mirageman




“I’ve been a researcher and student of UFOs for many, many years. Anybody that does research, if people bother to do quality research, comes away absolutely convinced. You don’t have to have personal encounters...People have been killed. People have been hurt. It’s more than observational kind of data..."

This was heavy stuff...Now where do the origins of this quote lie?

My english is limited, but as far as I understand, Bigelow is in possession of documentation about the Colarescase(s), which haven´t been released to the public . So t Bigelow quote maybe linked to the Colarescase.

a reply to: TheMadScientist2

You've somehow posted this in the wrong thread!!

Try this one.

Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP