American stalls at Aero india-2005 >> wierd, funny

I had attended an air show, Aero india-2005 last week

The Americans, were in strength(f-15e's, P-3c's, c-130's all did flying displays) and as their models suggest they seem to be in an all out mode to sell India their wares. To this effort, all their well made models of aircraft on their display stand are adorned in Indian Air Force colors.

The models of the F-16, P-3C, E2C Awacs, C-130J all had indian markings(all these are on offer to india), but the F-35JSF in indian markings was really surprising and gave me a reality check!

i was looking at a few aero india review's on the net and i found some pics of what i am talking about.

PS : even a Patriot PAC-3(on offer to india) also had indian marking's although i did'nt manage to find a pic of it.

www.bharat-rakshak.com...


www.bharat-rakshak.com...

Edit: oversized image changed to a direct link

[edit on 15-6-2005 by Seekerof]

Cool I wish we had Air Shows near where I live. So how was the event over all Stealth Spy?

How were the Russian planes? Did they also have have indian markings?

The E-2 C at the Northrop grumman stall, stuck to the wall
www.bharat-rakshak.com...

The C-130J super hercules

www.bharat-rakshak.com...

Edit: ovesized images/photos changed to direct link



[edit on 15-6-2005 by Seekerof]

www.bharat-rakshak.com...

Edit: oversized image/photo changed to a direct link

[edit on 15-6-2005 by Seekerof]

I noticed in the last picture the had a F-35 on the poster. Are they thinking of selling those to India, or is that just to show off some of their work.

Well that answers my question didnt know they were going to sell those to India. So do you think they will buy some of them Stealth Spy?

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Cool I wish we had Air Shows near where I live. So how was the event over all Stealth Spy?

How were the Russian planes? Did they also have have indian markings?

the russians had bigger models of the Su-47 Berkut, Sukhoi RRJ, Su-34's but they had only russian markings on them.

even the Su-30MKI and Mig-29K, alredy sold to india did'nt have indian markings, that red star that's all.

the eurofighter(also on offer to india) had indian markings on one side and some vague multicoloured( i guess the standard ef marking on the other side)

the F-15E pilots were literally like rockstars, with people crowding around for autographs !!!!!, as the Su-30 MKI, Tejas, surya kiran, sarang pilots who had put up much more impressive displays, and more twists and turns watched in envy

Man Indias really lucky they can buy the best of both worlds, Not many countries get such options. They can take the best of US,Euro and Russian tech. They can even mix and match with alittle of each.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Well that answers my question didnt know they were going to sell those to India. So do you think they will buy some of them Stealth Spy?

selling them to india....not even in my dreams.

if they did, i think india would still be cautious about it.the russians would be fuming though.....there is some talk of the indian state owned HAL buying upto 20% share in shkhoi

but if they offered them to both india and pakistan then india would be compelled to buy 'em.

i wish they were on offer...

hmm...it makes for some interesting speculation ,because the F-22, B-2 and other B-2 like UAV's whose models were just next to the F-35 had the conventional USAF markings on them.

Oh well that sucks, Thats alittle of a fake teaser showing them with Indian markings. I would like to see a Airforce made up of both Su-47s and JSFs. Well aslong as they were allies that would be a sweet airforce.

but india are alredy building their own 5th gen 20 tonne class MCA, after the sucess of the LCA

this is the plan from a DRDO press release in early 1997



The twin-engined Medium Combat Aircraft (MCA) is a stealthy Gen-5 combat aicraft optimised for strike missions. It will complement LCA and Su-30MKI as India's leading combat planes. It may fly before 2010 and be inducted by 2015. Right now its in design, prototype building stage

Propulsion
The State owned Gas Turbine Research Establishment [GTRE] was to indigenously develop the Kaveri engine to power the LCA and MCA. But there have been major slippages in all the milestones. GE, SNECMA, and Klimov had all offered to provide the engines for this aircraft.

The Kaveri engines in the MCA will have a slightly higher dry thrust than in the LCA engine. These engines will also have thrust-vectoring nozzles. It is unknown which company will be providing this technology, or whether it will be developed in India itself. A supercruise capability is not being sought. The twin engined aircraft is planned to have a thrust ratio of 7:8:1. The MCA will use India's own radar-absorbent material to reduce radar cross-section.

Kaveri
Air-mass flow 78 kg/s
By-pass ratio 0.16
Overall pressure ratio 21.5
Turbine entry temperature 1487-1700 K
Maximum dry thrust 52 kN (5302 kg)
Maximum dry SFC 0.78 kg/hr/kg
After burner maximum power thrust 81 kN (8260 kg)
After burner maximum power SFC 2.03 kg/hr/kg
Thrust-to-weight ratio 7.8

Kaveri engine is a two-spool bypass turbofan engine having three stages of transonic low pressure compressor driven by a single-stage low pressure turbine. The core engine consists of six-stage transonic compressor driven by single-stage cooled high pressure turbine. The engine is provided with a compact annular combustor with airblast atomisers. The aerothermodynamic and mechanical designs of engine components have been evolved using many in-house and commercially developed software for solid and fluid mechanics.

Kaveri three-stage transonic fan, designed for good stall margin and bird strike capability, handles an air mass flow of 78 kg/s and develops a pressure Combustion Chamber Liner ratio of 3.4. The six-stage variable capacity transonic compressor of Kaveri develops a pressure ratio of 6.4. The variable schedule of inlet guide vanes and two rows of stator is through FADEC control system to open the stator blades in a predetermined manner. High intensity low UD ratio annular combustor of Kaveri engine incorporates air blast injection of fuel for uniform outlet temperature profile and reduced carbon emission.

Kaveri high pressure turbine is provided with an efficient cooling design incorporating augmented convection-cum-film cooling for the vanes and combination cooling for the rotor blade to handle up to 1700 K turbine entry temperature. Kabini engine comprising high pressure compressor, combustor and high pressure turbine has undergone high altitude test at facilities abroad successfully demonstrating the flat rating concept of Kaveri engine assembly and in particular the combustor high altitude ignition and stability performances.

Kaveri engine has been specifically designed for Indian environment. The engine is a variable cycle-flat-rated engine in which the thrust drop due to high ambient, forward speed is well compensated by the increased turbine entry temperature at the spool Kabini altitude test speed. This concept has been already demonstrated with high temperature and pressure condition in DRDO's High Mach Facility. Kaveri engine is controlled by Kaveri full authority digital control unit [KADECU), which has been developed and successfully demonstrated at DRDO's test bed.

Stealth

Stealthiness will be a priority and hence the MCA will have two small, outward-canted fins and the external fuel tanks will be mounted above the wings. Absence of a vertical fin improves stealth. However, not all weapons will be internal and hence will compromize the stealth.
It will also be getting DRDO's RAM coating

If all progresses according to plan, MCA will become first military fighter that has no tail

Its interesting that the model was of the Block 60 F-16 If I am not mistaken with the conformational fuel cells. I wonder how those would compare with the Su-30's that India has??

Originally posted by FredT
Its interesting that the model was of the Block 60 F-16 If I am not mistaken with the conformational fuel cells. I wonder how those would compare with the Su-30's that India has??

Try comparing them with mig-29's.
Those F-16's are pitted against Mig-29 M2's, mirage-2000-5's and grippen's in the IAF's need for 126 new multirole aircrafts.
An evaluation will be carried out and winner wil be anounced.

Mig have raised the stakes, by including a new phased array radar, new aveonics and offering complete technology transfer to india, in addition lisence the manufacture of the jets in indian factories.

Su-30MKI is in another orbit. It will be more apt if you compare the latest F-15's to it, not F-16's

The markings I suspect were to rake in the crowds...
Hey stealth spy,, did you meet one "Akshay Phadke" sqdrn ldr i think, from the surya kiran team??
I know him personally; friends when we were kids..
I've also met Winco Sandeep Singh, Rathore and sqdrn ldr. Srivastav here at Lohegaon.. All from the 30 Sqdrn. Rhinos..

The markings I suspect were to rake in the crowds...
Hey stealth spy,, did you meet one "Akshay Phadke" sqdrn ldr i think, from the surya kiran team??
I know him personally; friends when we were kids..
I've also met Winco Sandeep Singh, Rathore and sqdrn ldr. Srivastav here at Lohegaon.. All from the 30 Sqdrn. Rhinos..

No F-35 for India..
MCA IMHO is a white elephant as of now...
Nothing besides those concept designs..
Mars manned missoin vehicles are more concrete in terms of development..

America wants India to participate as a member nation in the JSF program, but it wants India to sign a strict technology agreement wherein India would not be able to reverse-engineer prime components or modify the aircraft.

India heavily modifies every aircraft platform it operates.

So ain't gonna happen. Especially not so when MCA project (a JSF-class/role aircraft) is firmly in the pipeline.

Originally posted by rajkhalsa2004
America wants India to participate as a member nation in the JSF program, but it wants India to sign a strict technology agreement wherein India would not be able to reverse-engineer prime components or modify the aircraft.

Any source on such a collaboration??

heres one src

another from bbc

The rest can easily be googled.

[edit on 16-2-2005 by rajkhalsa2004]