Am I Literallly A Stupid Fool... Or Am I Just Unaware.

I am absolutely no theologian... there is much I am unaware of, even ignorant of, in many religious aspects.
However I do consider myself knowledgeable enough to cope with a decent amount of religious topics.

But yesterday, I had a “realisation”, which may be more accurately described as a stupid question by a fool, that remains to be seen...
This is in regards to something I’ve never been taught or come across in my religious education.


So...
It relates to Noah...
And bear with me here...
Please try to resist any urge to avoid the question by referring to any inaccuracies in the story you feel to express, or any sort of diversion towards the many other flood stories from antiquity...
My question takes us to a point quite unrelated to the story itself.


So...
Noah, and only his family, survived a Worldwide flood...
Noah is also a Jew (race wise, not religiously)...

So how is it that we have reached a point where there is global acceptance of non-Jews (again, race wise)...
If we accept the story, we must also accept that every living person is a descendent of Noah.
There is no way to argue against that.

So how did the non-Jew become a thing, when the sole source of genetics, originated from a Jew.

The other consideration along similar lines is the current ethnic diversity coming from a singular ethnic choice.
But that is not as pressing a question as the first one I proposed.

Wouldn’t the fact (go with it for now) that everyone must be a descendant of Noah due to the elimination of everybody but him and his family make us all “Chosen Ones”...
Where/How did the goyim originate?

As I said, this may actually be a really stupid question, and I’m willing to accept that if it is the case.
On the condition that a legitimate answer is provided.




Note: Please forgive my Facebook-esque post, and the lack of educational or entertainment value I’ve offered you with this one.
I just really need closure on this anomaly. If it is indeed an anomaly.


Peace!

a reply to: Hazardous1408

Wasn't there a group of people who survived on the mountains? In the ship story?

Who would have thought, Chinese people share the same exact family roots as African tribes-people, and from only a few thousand years ago at that. It's true though, the bible says so.

a reply to: Hazardous1408
Noah was not a Jew.
"The Jews", or at least the people who became the Jews, begin with Abraham, who was one of the descendants of Noah.
The official genealogy is in Genesis ch10&11
Noah is the father of Shem, amongst others, and Shem is the ancestor of Abraham.

a reply to: Hazardous1408

So how did the non-Jew become a thing, when the sole source of genetics, originated from a Jew.

Non jews are people that are not connected by blood to Jacob, who was the first of the "Israelites"

Noah wasn't a Jew... though he was Hebrew

a reply to: Hazardous1408

Its not a stupid or ignorant question - it's a good one.

and just like the mark of Cain - if it was just Adam, Eve, Cain, Able.........why mark his forehead as a warning for the 'others'?????

The biblical story of Noah, just like the garden story, is directed at a particular bloodline. Indeed the entire bible, both old and new testaments, give significant genealogies to prove bloodlines - bloodlines are important for the story.

In the case of Noah...8 people survived. Noah and his wife, his three sons, and their wives. I have no verification of the bloodlines of the wives of the 3 sons.

So, what I've taken away from it is that there were lots of people living when the garden story came to fruition and the idea of a singular Adam and a singular Eve fits well once you look at the bible account of the great flood from a perspective of focusing in on a particular bloodline instead of 'all humanity'.

a reply to: Hazardous1408

Not quite, he was chosen by God along with his family, his son's and there wives.

Juda was not born until a great many generations later, Juda son of Jacob whom God called Israel so Juda being a son of Israel was the patriarch of one of the Twelve tribes, Dan and Juda are usually both regarded as ancestors of Jews though.

A couple of Generations (there life span's were much longer so if ordinary people were also born then many, many generations by there lineage) later one of his descendant's rebelled and built the Tower of Babel which was never completed, God came down and divided men altering them so one language became many - was that one language a form of Telepathy? - and so they could no longer understand one another, each man's thought's became his own and they ceased to cooperate - the old NWO was kicked on it's arse in other word's.

Tower to heaven, space elevator.

Abraham whom also lived a very long life being a direct male descendant of Noah himself - so were there other man on the ark than Noah's son's as well, was there more than one ark - we shall come back to that in a moment - was not born until many generations later, a great many by ordinary threescore and ten life span's which are typically divided by between twenty and thirty year gradations as you know so average that to a modern generation being about 25 years then go and look at the length of Noah's life, that of his father and back to the time of Abraham and then compare there SHORT lives which are long by our standards with the lifetime's of the legendary king's of Sumeria and the King's of Ancient Egypt - not the archaeological one's the Egyptian religious history's and also the Indian king's, men whom according to those legend's could live 25000 years in some cases.

It is easy to wipe it from your mind and put it into a fantasy jar somewhere but these were genuinely believed in and there lifespans' which MAY have been exaggerated then again may not have been, were they in possession of lost ancient life extension technology's or other knowledge.

I hate to fall back on evolution but over generations of marrying short lived normal human - pre-adamite descended woman life span's among there descent decreased until they were no longer long lived and there pocket population among the greater short lived population was first swamped and then simply bred out.

In ancient Greece in relation to the legend of Atlantis - arguably another version of the flood story you have reference to periodic disasters that wipe everyone out except the illiterate shepherds in the hill's whom then have to start all over again having forgotten what came before, in Persia/Afghanistan - pre-islamic you have a Noah like figure whose world was destroyed by ICE and whom took his People - extension of family his tribe - and animal's into a shelter that the God's had instructed him to build under ground were they waited until the ice had passed then headed south.


Personally I do believe in Noah, was he and his family the only people to survive, was the flood the entire globe or regional, were some places safe - the high mountains and the plateaus, even if it just wiped out the coastal population it would still have wiped out nearly the entire human race.

Also there is genetic evidence that we are descended from very few people, perhaps survivors of a global die off of all other people.

a reply to: Hazardous1408

Noah was NOT a Jew. He came well before Abraham. Abraham is the first Hebrew. The term Jew did not even exist back then. It was before Israel even existed. It was Canaan then.

Jew dʒuː/ noun noun: Jew; plural noun: Jews a member of the people and cultural community whose traditional religion is Judaism and who trace their origins to the ancient Hebrew people of Israel. Origin Middle English: from Old French juiu, via Latin from Greek Ioudaios, via Aramaic from Hebrew yĕhūḏī, from yĕhūḏāh ‘Judah’ (see Judah).

The term coms frm Judah. Judah came only after the Patriarchs of Jacob/Israel (the Twelve tribes) where Judah was the namesake of the tribe that became the Kingdom of Judah separate from Israel, from where came the term Jew much later.



The lineage goes Abraham/Isaac/Jacob. Jacob was the father of the 12.

Noah comes from Mesopotamia, from the Gilgamesh legend. Mesopotamia later became Ur of the Chaldeans, later still to become Babylon.

Abraham came out of Ur:

Genesis 15:7. And He said to him, "I am the LORD who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans, to give you this land to possess it.

www.bible-history.com...

Ancient Chaldea The southernmost portion of ancient Sumer was called Chaldea, and the most important Sumerian city was located on the western portion of the Euphrates River and it was called Ur. The land of Chaldea contain riches beyond imagination, and Ur was the wealthiest city. The history in this region exceeds that of the land of Egypt and its pyramids.

Genesis 11:27; Terah's Descendants 27Now these are the records of the generations of Terah. Terah became the father of Abram, Nahor and Haran; and Haran became the father of Lot. 28Haran died in the presence of his father Terah in the land of his birth, in Ur of the Chaldeans.

No doubt Terah was BORN in Ur. If Abram was called out of Ur and his dad came from there then it is pretty much safe to say Abraham was a CHALDEAN. The first Hebrew was from Mesopotamia, former Sumer and later to become BABYLON.

Abraham was a nomad. The Hebrews had to wait for Moses and Joshua before they had a home in the Promised Land.

The Flood is no doubt a handed down folk legend in the Iraq region that the Hebrews kept a memory of in their new tradition as Hebrews of the clan of Abraham. Everything prior to Abraham comes from Ur/ Sumer/Mesopotamia, icluding The Creation. The Garden of Eden is deven described as being:

en.wikipedia.org...

The Tigris and Euphrates, with their tributaries, form a major river system in Western Asia. From sources originating in the Armenian Highlands[5] of eastern Turkey they flow by/through Syria through Iraq into the Persian Gulf.[6] The system is part of the Palearctic Tigris–Euphrates ecoregion, which includes Iraq and parts of Turkey, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Jordan. From their sources and upper courses in the mountains of eastern Anatolia, the rivers descend through valleys and gorges to the uplands of Syria and northern Iraq and then to the alluvial plain of central Iraq. The rivers flow in a south-easterly direction through the central plain and combine at Al-Qurnah to form the Shatt al-Arab and discharge into the Persian Gulf.[5] The region has historical importance as part of the Fertile Crescent region, in which civilization is believed to have first emerged.

Genesis 2: 10-13; 10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. 11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin[d] and onyx are also there.) 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush.[e] 14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Ashur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

You are the OP. Why did you not research it? I have done it for you so you do not deceive people with this laziness and error.

a reply to: Hazardous1408

Because even If it did happen (didn't btw just a story) the flood was a local event and plenty of other people were around in different parts of the world.

a reply to: Revolution9

No AND Yes - Abraham is the father of MANY Nation's, Jew's are only descendant's of the Tribe of Juda (Judah your correct spelling) hence the name Jew - his grandson but also tend to regard Dan another of his grandson's as also there ancestor.

Many nation's arose from Abraham, Jews believe in the GOD of Abraham whom is the GOD of Noah before him, Abraham rejected the false god's of the people he was once a member of.

Abraham himself had two son's, Ishmael whom was also the father of a nation and Isaac the father of Essau and Jacob BOTH fathers of Nation's or indeed of Several Nation's.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Revolution9

No Abraham is the father of MANY Nation's, Jew's are only descendant's of the Tribe of Juda hence the name Jew - his grandson but also tend to regard Dan another of his grandson's as also there ancestor.

Many nation's arose from Abraham, Jews believe in the GOD of Abraham whom is the GOD of Noah before him, Abraham rejected the false god's of the people he was once a member of.

TELL ME WHERE I SAID ABRAHAM WAS A JEW? Read my words properly. Stop this ignorance.YES, Abraham is the first Hebrew. There was no term for "Jew" then. He was the first to be given the instruction to separate himself from all other people by circumcision. Check it for yourself. There is NO MENTION of any Promised Land before that. Noah was not given the instruction to circumcise. Prior to Abraham it was NOT an instruction. There was no such thing as Covenant Hebrew before Abraham. As you say Abraham is the Father of many nations. Where did I say that wasn't so exactly? You tell me "no" to words I have not even used. Why did you do that?

Only through Christ did the Hebrew Chosen people be extended to everybody or why did Christ have to come? The Hebrews krept themselves separate bfore Christ. You know that. That is why it was Hebrew and gentile. All the other nations did not say Abraham was their father, did they? Did the Romans claim lineage from Abraham? Did the Greeks? No, they did not. Only after Christ did that Promise extend to everybody. That was His Mission. That was the reason why He had to come, or one of them.

I have read the Bible twice wholly. I have studied it for years.

Genesis 17King James Version (KJV) 17 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. 2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. 3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, 4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. 5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. 6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. 7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF THE FIRST COVENANT. The sign was circumcision. Before this these people worshipped more than one god/godess. They were Chaldeans until God took Abraham away. He was a monotheist. e came out of a land that was polytheist.

That is when the Covenant started. God promised Abraham all that if he kept to the Covenant.

That is why we call it the Old and New Covenant. There is no Hebrew without this.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Thank you.

I must admit it never occurred to me to consider those who “came in unto the daughters of man”...
& that is certainly an efficient explanation.


I appreciate the other responses, very much.

The one hang up I have is that saying that ethnic Jews (Hebrews if you prefer) started with Abraham, Jacob or Juda (as is the variety of responses being inconclusive), this is essentially accepting a deviation away from the genetic make up that spawned them in the first place, and their ancestors, going all the way back to Noah...


I’m not quite sure how that is possible to be honest.

But again, I may be missing something.

You see this is where my confusion comes from...

Personally I think you are playing semantics...

The fact is plenty of Jews refer to themselves as Ethnic Jews...
Which as far as I’m aware is no different than using the term Hebrew.

Or do Hebrews & Ethnic Jews differ genetically...

If so... how is that possible if we accept they all descend from Noah? And his genetic make up?

a reply to: Revolution9

Right, I am a christian and of Jewish decent, let's get this streight, to an arab whom claim's rightly or wrongly descent from Ishmael Abraham was a Muslim, to an Orthodox Jew he was a Jew - no actually he was BEFORE Judaism, same god but different rule's and Abraham also knew the priest of Jerusalem before it was called that Salom as it was called back then that priest being Melchizedek the HIGH priest of the same God Abraham was devoted to.
Jews are descendant's of Juda, Danites were descendant's of Dan, Gadarines were Descendant's of Gad etc and all of them called Abraham father, the ISREALITE's - All twelve of the tribe's whom took the city of the Jebusites were of course Melchizedek in the time of Abraham hundreds of years before the event (about 400 or more and after the return from Egypt remember) had once worshiped the Lord then in the time of David the second king of Israel established the ground for the temple in the city which Solomon his son then completed.

Jew is derived from Judah so.

If abraham was named after his own grandson that would be strange would not so NO he was not a Jew he is the Great Grandfather of the Jewish people and the grandfather of Israel which is not just Juda but all twelve tribes as one nation in Jacob.

a reply to: Hazardous1408

Hebrew YES that is correct, Abraham is the Original Hebrew and arguably not only Jews are Hebrew though in truth they are the only lineage whom have retained Hebrew unbroken since the time of the patriarch's though also the Samaritan's and many other's are also Hebrew though today they are almost exclusively Islamic by there faith since it dominates the region.

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
You see this is where my confusion comes from...

Personally I think you are playing semantics...

The fact is plenty of Jews refer to themselves as Ethnic Jews...
Which as far as I’m aware is no different than using the term Hebrew.

Or do Hebrews & Ethnic Jews differ genetically...

If so... how is that possible if we accept they all descend from Noah? And his genetic make up?

JUDAISM is not a race. It is a religion. Anyone can become a Jew if they GET CIRCUMCISED into the COVENANT and convert. In modern Israel they will not allow Jews who believe in Christ to live there (make Aliyah), even if they have the name "Cohen" and their parents died in the camps. They are still not counted as Jews if they believe Christ and will not be allowed to make Aliyah. Check it if you do not believe me.

Everything I have written here is evidence based. You lot are making up a lot of crap because you don't understand it, as you even here admit. Not one of you has any academic source. I have provided many.

Now stop being "fools" as the OP admitted to being and READ. Do some research. Though I expect you'll end up on David Icke's website, believing that the Ark has been found, lol. No helping you.

Stop taliking gibberish and making things up. I am not talking any kind of "semantics". I am writing evidence based observation.

Start quoting from the Bible your ridiculousness. You don't quote like I do because you can't find what you are defining this as in the Bible because it is NOT THERE. What I have written IS THERE as I have demonstrated.

Don't ever make up trash about what I have written. I will defend myself because it is not trash commentary, but my very faith and understanding. I am bound to defend that.

And all this age old discussion and division.

Based on writings of various individuals, non-descript from the picture, painted across many cultures.

Same applies to all religions. Just look at the wealth and subsequent debauchery exhibited by the Catholic branch and the fingerpointing.

May as well be moonies.

a reply to: Revolution9

Ugh.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Jews, also known as Jewish people, are an ethnoreligious group and a nation originating from the Israelites, or Hebrews, of the Ancient Near East.

Stop denying your semantics...
Or admit to an argument of irrelevance...

Ethnic Jew is not a term I have made up out of thin air...
It is a commonly used term of self-identification by Jews themselves...
& as quoted above it is originally described as Hebrew ethnicity...
You have locked into a minor and irrelevant detail so you can rant about religious origins...

I am not discussing religious beliefs...
It is very clear I am discussing ethnicity and the genetic make up thereof...

You have not provided an adequate answer to my query.
Also, please spare me the righteous indignation attitude.


When you can explain the difference between a Hebrew and an ethnic Jew, and further expand on how their genes deviated from Noah’s, as well as enlightening me on the origins of the goyim, and how they deviated genetically from the only source available after the flood...
Then I will be happy to consider your input.

Until then, semantics mate!

a reply to: Revolution9

You make a good point actually and you are correct.

1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, “I am God Almighty ; walk before me faithfully and be blameless. 2 Then I will make my covenant between me and you and will greatly increase your numbers.” 3 Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, 4 “As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. 5 No longer will you be called Abram ; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. 7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.” 9 Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. 10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring. 13 Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.” 15 God also said to Abraham, “As for Sarai your wife, you are no longer to call her Sarai; her name will be Sarah. 16 I will bless her and will surely give you a son by her. I will bless her so that she will be the mother of nations; kings of peoples will come from her.” 17 Abraham fell facedown; he laughed and said to himself, “Will a son be born to a man a hundred years old? Will Sarah bear a child at the age of ninety?” 18 And Abraham said to God, “If only Ishmael might live under your blessing!” 19 Then God said, “Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. 21 But my covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you by this time next year.” 22 When he had finished speaking with Abraham, God went up from him. 23 On that very day Abraham took his son Ishmael and all those born in his household or bought with his money, every male in his household, and circumcised them, as God told him. 24 Abraham was ninety-nine years old when he was circumcised, 25 and his son Ishmael was thirteen; 26 Abraham and his son Ishmael were both circumcised on that very day. 27 And every male in Abraham’s household, including those born in his household or bought from a foreigner, was circumcised with him.

a reply to: Hazardous1408

The best answer you can get is that the flood was a myth so there is no bloodline that everyone on the planet came from... Jews didn't exist at the time of Noah... they came from Jacob who was "Israel"... one of the tribes was called Judah, which is where the name JEW came from... and became a different lineage then the rest of the twelve tribes

Eventually anyone that had any connection to Israel became known as a Jew, which is a slang term anyways

Goyim are people that have no connection to Israel these days