What if the Sun was not Spherical?

First of all if we are exact gravity is manifestation of bending of spacetime caused by masses.

Originally posted by Whiskey Jack


I think that, at least, it's pretty safe to say that the side of the moon facing us is convex.

Nope, what you see in that animation comes from fact that moon's orbit isn't exact sphere but an ellipse, there's small changes in orbital speed depending on its position and that makes it look like it's wobbling.

www.inconstantmoon.com...
www-istp.gsfc.nasa.gov...

Originally posted by E_T
First of all if we are exact gravity is manifestation of bending of spacetime caused by masses.

oh no, You're not going to give me the example of the ball and tarp, are you?

Nope, what you see in that animation comes from fact that moon's orbit isn't exact sphere but an ellipse, there's small changes in orbital speed depending on its position and that makes it look like it's wobbling.

Well, we got a defector from the sphere gang at least!

Locking of moon's rotation period to its orbital period is called tidal locking and there are also other examples of it in solar system.

Also difference between more even near side and heavily cratered other side might be explained partially by tidal locking... otherside took all hits but on this side earth was in the way "sucking in" part of objects so that they collided with earth instead of this side of moon.


Glass like surface of some meteorites comes from heat which melts surface, in many of those you can even see flowing signs of melted rock.

Originally posted by Plumbo
There's a saying in the old testament that cursed is the man who trusts in man, and blessed is the man who trusts in God.

"Religion is the masterpiece of the art of animal training, for it trains people as to how they shall think."
-Arthur Shopenhauer

"Religion is what the common people see as true, the wise people see as false, and the rulers see as useful."
-Seneca

"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology."
-Thomas Jefferson

"To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today."
-Isaac Asimov

"Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves."
-Eric Hoffer

Well, we got a defector from the sphere gang at least!

Wrong... you're theories are no different than those of flat/hollow earthers so don't try to make it look like I would be supporting you!
Your theory about shape of moon is plainly based to wrong assumptions about its orbit.

And funny how you first downplay Newton's gravity (being pretty close to gravity in relativity) as old and then hug one of the Kepler's laws which is as old.

[edit on 15-2-2005 by E_T]

Originally posted by E_T
Locking of moon's rotation period to its orbital period is called tidal locking and there are also other examples of it in solar system.

PAAH!!!

Tidal locking!? You can't even accurately define how tides work without gravity in its equation, can you? Yeah, there is a locking going on though.

Glass like surface of some meteorites comes from heat which melts surface, in many of those you can even see flowing signs of melted rock.

You know something E_T, you may be partially right. But the overwhelming majority of the fusion crust is definitely from the sky. There you go again, eating the crap they shovel you, and you send me quotes against religion. No, YOU'RE the religionist, not me my friend. I believe there is glass in the rock as well as the sky, don't you? After all, silicon dioxide rubbing silicon dioxide produces light, right, Spaceboy?

"Religion is the masterpiece of the art of animal training, for it trains people as to how they shall think."
-Arthur Shopenhauer

"Religion is what the common people see as true, the wise people see as false, and the rulers see as useful."
-Seneca

"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology."
-Thomas Jefferson

"To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today."
-Isaac Asimov

"Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves."
-Eric Hoffer

The RELIGION of E_T trusts in man, namely Shopenhauer, Seneca, Jefferson, Asimov, & Hoffer. ----

You quote men, I'll quote God.

Jeremiah 17:5
Thus says the LORD:
"Cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his strength, whose heart turns away from the LORD."

E_T is cursed if he believes all these idiots.

Well, we got a defector from the sphere gang at least!

Wrong... you're theories are no different than those of flat/hollow earthers so don't try to make it look like I would be supporting you!

I was being facetious, ya gotta be quicker on the American jargon. E_T ol' boy.

Your theory about shape of moon is plainly based to wrong assumptions about its orbit.

And you think you know its' orbit, huh. Tell me E_T, why are radio transmission signals nearly doubled in strength while the moon is directly overhead? Couldn't it be that the moon is a massive satellite dish reflecting the signal back to us?

And funny how you first downplay Newton's gravity (being pretty close to gravity in relativity) as old and then hug one of the Kepler's laws which is as old.

Kepler was just as much a buffoon as Newton, they both had a skewed perception.

But I got an off topic question for you, E_T. Where'd you get your costume?

[edit on 15-2-2005 by Plumbo]

Equator bulge of earth is caused by combined effect of gravity (in these cases Newton's gravity is enough) and rotation.
Force of gravity is inversely proportional to distance from center of mass so it's equal in every place of earth surface, this is the force which tries to keep earth as sphere.
Now rotation causes "centrifugal force" which tries to break up earth and whose strength depends on only (because rotation time of solid object doesn't vary in different parts of it) from distance to rotation axis with force being directly proportional to it so force is strongest in place farthest away from rotation axis, on equator.
Now when these two forces are combined it leads to little weaker "gravity" on equator leading to squashing of earth/bulging of equator.

Originally posted by Plumbo
The glass causes the opposite effect in scale and temperature...
Let me explain, at dusk and dawn, we feel the coolness of the day, say, on a hot summer day, and yet, the sun looks HUGE, on the other hand, when we feel the intense heat in mid afternoon, the sun looks it's tiniest-

If you have forgotten basic things, "density" of radiation is proportional to angle in which it hits surface, with smaller hitting angle same amount of radiation is distributed to bigger surface area.
Also with sun lower in the sky radiation have to go through thicker atmosphere meaning more radiation is filtered by atmosphere.
That's also behind seasons, angle of sun in the sky at same time of day changes when earth orbits around sun. (because rotation axis is tilted compared to level of orbit)

It is merely the area of the concave moon falling under the bulging illusion created by the glass lens as the moon travels across the sky revealing different areas of the concave surface.

Wrong. Photos for this kind of comparison are taken so that object is equally high above horizon in all of them. (or above certain angle so that effect of atmosphere negligible)

And most importantly you're ignoring very big hole in your moon theory, movement of terminator (edge between light and shadow) on moon's surface. If moon would be different shaped than sphere (/close to it) movement of terminator would be entirely different.

Originally posted by E_T
Equator bulge of earth is caused by combined effect of gravity (in these cases Newton's gravity is enough) and rotation.
Force of gravity is inversely proportional to distance from center of mass so it's equal in every place of earth surface, this is the force which tries to keep earth as sphere.
Now rotation causes "centrifugal force" which tries to break up earth and whose strength depends on only (because rotation time of solid object doesn't vary in different parts of it) from distance to rotation axis with force being directly proportional to it so force is strongest in place farthest away from rotation axis, on equator.
Now when these two forces are combined it leads to little weaker "gravity" on equator leading to squashing of earth/bulging of equator.

man, textbook answer! Right out of the book of the dead.

?cjdeoihvglahrlku?trffd?sfdnhgfhgjhjhjh?jhgjd7urmiig?hjhjjd\?

Now if you could only define gravity for me, Moe.

Originally posted by Plumbo
The glass causes the opposite effect in scale and temperature...
Let me explain, at dusk and dawn, we feel the coolness of the day, say, on a hot summer day, and yet, the sun looks HUGE, on the other hand, when we feel the intense heat in mid afternoon, the sun looks it's tiniest-

If you have forgotten basic things, "density" of radiation is proportional to angle in which it hits surface, with smaller hitting angle same amount of radiation is distributed to bigger surface area.
Also with sun lower in the sky radiation have to go through thicker atmosphere meaning more radiation is filtered by atmosphere.
That's also behind seasons, angle of sun in the sky at same time of day changes when earth orbits around sun. (because rotation axis is tilted compared to level of orbit)

Looking through glass at an acute angle is a little easier to swallow. Lenses magnify objects. But since you really believe the earth orbits the sun, I can't really expound that much to you about this. Is there anyone out there who has an open mind! Don't need you're Einsteinian BS explanation to explain the obvious. Stop acting as a know-it-all, you're just a stooge, like Einstein.

It is merely the area of the concave moon falling under the bulging illusion created by the glass lens as the moon travels across the sky revealing different areas of the concave surface.

Wrong. Photos for this kind of comparison are taken so that object is equally high above horizon in all of them. (or above certain angle so that effect of atmosphere negligible)

Ees height of camera, above or below glass?
Why do not you believe there is glass in sky?
Do you not have your own brain, Boris?
Can not you see pretty colors in the sky?
Pretty colors come from glass.

No, your just a nasa puppet, you have no brain, no feelings, no common sense. Your heart is filthy, covered with darkness and hatred of God. Repent you disgusting sinner.

t importantly you're ignoring very big hole in your moon theory, movement of terminator (edge between light and shadow) on moon's surface. If moon would be different shaped than sphere (/close to it) movement of terminator would be entirely different.

Movement of terminator would not be different, it's image would be flipped from our percetion, but the shadow motions would be the same. I've rendered this before.

Oh, and by the way, you tag line quoting Larry Fine, I mean uh, Albert Einstein,"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."-Albert Einstein

Only the latter is true. (clue)

[edit on 15-2-2005 by Plumbo]

Originally posted by Plumbo
Tell me E_T, why are radio transmission signals nearly doubled in strength while the moon is directly overhead? Couldn't it be that the moon is a massive satellite dish reflecting the signal back to us?

Radiowaves are EM radiation like visible light, so same "thickening" of atmosphere at low angles affects to them.
Also at radio frequencies atmosphere (or certain parts of it) work like semi tranparent boundary (like air-water boundary with visible light) so that when hitting angle decreases over certain point, reflectivity of boundary increases "exponentially".

Again you words are contradiction, in later case position of moon in the sky wouldn't affect.


And thanks for confirming you're one those (half) religious self proclaimed prophets following rule if facts don't fit to theory change them.

Originally posted by Plumbo
Now if you could only define gravity for me...

You've had gravity defined for you already. It's one of the five fundamental forces in the universe. And these fundamental forces are to Physics what postulates are to Math. So, what's your definition of gravity?

You're claiming that Einstein, Newton, et. al. are idiots, while you're the genius. Virtually all the science and math that humanity knows is evidence that these two, and their peers, are correct. And they weren't correct because people just decided to "believe" them -- there is more evidence than any one person could collect in a lifetime proving their discoveries true.

A basic Calculus course, and the application of derivatives and integrals to Newton's equations, will show that gravity will collect matter in spheres (like planets) and disks (like our solar system, our entire galaxy) when conditions are ideal.

Not only that, but Newton's equations are a special case of Einstein's equations -- Einstein's equations work on a cosmic scale, and when scaled down they simplify into Newton's equations, which works on the scale that humanity is accustomed to living.

Originally posted by Plumbo
Can not you see pretty colors in the sky?
Pretty colors come from glass.

Wrong. Pretty colors come from light, at different wavelengths. That's like saying, "Toasters create bread from thin air! I know because I saw a toaster produce a piece of bread from its innards once!"

Originally posted by Plumbo
No, your just a NASA puppet, you have no brain, no feelings, no common sense. Your heart is filthy, covered with darkness and hatred of God. Repent you disgusting sinner.

Huh?
Science isn't a religion -- scientists don't decide something is "true" because that's what everyone voted on, or what those in charge decided was the "right" thing to believe. You're treating science as if it were a religion, and that's like calling bald a color of hair.

So, you think that the Moon and Sun are bowls, and that the Earth's atmosphere is covered in glass. Despite the fact that all the presented evidence (not beliefs, but evidence) absolutely disproves it, you cling to your beliefs.

Posters like E_T and myself aren't puppets of anyone; NASA showed us the evidence, and we decided for ourselves. All you have offered are personal beliefs and a few graphics to look at.

Hey, I don't want you to think I'm bashing you or anything -- your avatar and the graphics alone tell me you're an impressive artist. (I couldn't be an artist if I spent my whole life trying.) But, you've got a long way to go before you reach the level of knowledge to make the kind of judgements in Math & Science you're aiming for. But I can tell you're interested, so can I make a suggestion? Take Calculus, Physics I (Mechanics), Physics II (Electromagnetics), and an Astronomy course at your local college. I think you'll be impressed with the evidence once you've seen it all in its algebraic glory.

Originally posted by ThunderCloud
You've had gravity defined for you already. It's one of the five fundamental forces in the universe. And these fundamental forces are to Physics what postulates are to Math. So, what's your definition of gravity?

You're claiming that Einstein, Newton, et. al. are idiots, while you're the genius. Virtually all the science and math that humanity knows is evidence that these two, and their peers, are correct. And they weren't correct because people just decided to "believe" them -- there is more evidence than any one person could collect in a lifetime proving their discoveries true.

A basic Calculus course, and the application of derivatives and integrals to Newton's equations, will show that gravity will collect matter in spheres (like planets) and disks (like our solar system, our entire galaxy) when conditions are ideal.

Not only that, but Newton's equations are a special case of Einstein's equations -- Einstein's equations work on a cosmic scale, and when scaled down they simplify into Newton's equations, which works on the scale that humanity is accustomed to living.

Well, ThunderCloud, since you definitely know more about gravity than I do, could you please define it for me. I mean, what gives gravity its force, what causes the force of gravity to create other forces? Providence? I've already implied that I don't have a definition of gravity.

There have been many brilliant men is science. But, there is a difference between knowledge and understanding. I do not posses knowledge like these men had. Wouldn't even come close.

But, I have understanding. I understand how things work, more than these men did, anyway. Understanding can be attained by the simplest of creatures, a child can posses it.

Wrong. Pretty colors come from light, at different wavelengths. That's like saying, "Toasters create bread from thin air! I know because I saw a toaster produce a piece of bread from its innards once!"

hmm, yes, pretty colors come from light! at different wavelengths.
What divides the light into different wavelengths? Raindrops? Really?
I always thought, please correct me if I'm wrong, that glass divides light into different wavelengths. Please answer my questions about the fusion crust, about the sky lighting up when meterorites pierce through, and about the pretty colors of the rainbow. I don't think a little word like "Wrong" is a good enough rebuttal.

Huh?
Science isn't a religion -- scientists don't decide something is "true" because that's what everyone voted on, or what those in charge decided was the "right" thing to believe. You're treating science as if it were a religion, and that's like calling bald a color of hair.

Yup! that's exactamundo! Thundercloud.

Science is not a religion.
Religion is a belief system in man-made, scientifically unproven ideas, like gravity, and an earth spinning planet.

So, you think that the Moon and Sun are bowls, and that the Earth's atmosphere is covered in glass. Despite the fact that all the presented evidence (not beliefs, but evidence) absolutely disproves it, you cling to your beliefs.

Well, I have a hunch they are. But please expound on your "evidence" claim that they are not. Please do not resort to using the word gravity in your explanations, if you cannot define it for me. Otherwise you would be using religion again, no?

I think, if you can be objective enough, I have shown doubt that they are not spheres, if anything.

Posters like E_T and myself aren't puppets of anyone; NASA showed us the evidence, and we decided for ourselves. All you have offered are personal beliefs and a few graphics to look at.

Correction, nasa showed you a presentation. That is all. I can show you a presentation, too. But understand that I have taught Photoshop, I have taught college level 3d animation and modeling, I have extensive knowledge in image manipulation. You can believe who you want to believe. You can decide for yourselves, that is free will.

Hey, I don't want you to think I'm bashing you or anything -- your avatar and the graphics alone tell me you're an impressive artist.

(I couldn't be an artist if I spent my whole life trying.) But, you've got a long way to go before you reach the level of knowledge to make the kind of judgements in Math & Science you're aiming for. But I can tell you're interested, so can I make a suggestion? Take Calculus, Physics I (Mechanics), Physics II (Electromagnetics), and an Astronomy course at your local college. I think you'll be impressed with the evidence once you've seen it all in its algebraic glory.

Thundercloud, you know, we're all given different talents in life.
I could try to become a great mathematician, scientist. But I know my limitations, I know what talents and character traits I can excel in. I know I wouldn't have the patience to become anything other than a visual communication expert. I also know that there are millions of other people, maybe like you even, who could do a much better job at science and physics than I could.

So I ask you, my dear friend. Could you become objective in scientific thought? Could you go back to the drawing board, so to speak, eliminate all that you have been told concerning the universe. Ask yourself why things fall down, what causes heavier objects to fall to the ground?

Ah-Ah-Ah, don't say gravity.

Why doesn't if feel like the earth is spinning. How far away is the sun? If it is 93,000,000 miles away, then why such a wide temperature difference at the poles as compared to the equator? What's a couple thousand miles? Why are shadows of clouds, viewed from above the atmosphere, at varying heading angles, they're not parallel. Why, if the earth is traveling through frigid space, does it not freeze up like a ice cube in a freezer? How could the core keep perpetually giving off heat? rememer, don't say the magic word, gr-----. Why do plumb bobs diverge at the bottom of mine shafts, instead of converge, if the center of the earth is the center of gravity(clue). Are you sure light travels perfectly straight? Why does Hubble give such impressive closeups of nebulae, how much closer can it be to them, relatively speaking?

Are you willing to be objective? Are you willing to have an open mind? Or are you already settled on your understanding of the cosmos enough? If you are, then I'm wasting my time with you.

You've concluded that you believe nasa. Maybe that's good enough for you. Maybe that isn't good enough for somebody else.

Maybe there are others who will ponder these questions. Maybe they are not comfortable enough with the conventional explanations, maybe they want to seek for truth, and will not stop until they find it.

These are the people I am looking for.....

If you're out there, please make your voice known.
I'm very lonely.

[edit on 16-2-2005 by Plumbo]

Originally posted by E_T
Radiowaves are EM radiation like visible light, so same "thickening" of atmosphere at low angles affects to them.
Also at radio frequencies atmosphere (or certain parts of it) work like semi tranparent boundary (like air-water boundary with visible light) so that when hitting angle decreases over certain point, reflectivity of boundary increases "exponentially".

You know what E_T, I figured you out. You are an empty-shelled, pompous, vain individual who like to postulate so-called science. Bill Nye could do a better job and have had fun looking like a stooge.

Any member viewing this thread could have done a search on Google and posted the hidden knowledge you posted. You did it because you like to impress people with your scientific knowledge.

I'm done conversing with you, heck, my robot has more feeling than you do.....take your space costume and go home.

How about we act like adults and stop with the rudeness, mmkay?
Seriously. Chill out now.

Last warning: STOP insulting other members.

If you can't defend your position without doing this maybe this conversation isn't for you.

When I was a boy, I used to just soak up Beatles songs.
They were just so mesmerizing. Like...

The Fool on the Hill

Day after day, alone on a hill,
The man with the foolish grin is keeping perfectly still
But nobody wants to know him,
They can see he’s just a fool
And he never gives an answer.
But the fool on the hill sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head see the world spinning round.
Well on the way, head in a cloud,
The man of a thousand voices talking perfectly loud.
But nobody ever hears him
Or the sound he appearss to make
And he never seems to notice.
But the fool on the hill sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head see the world spinning round.
And nobody seems to like him,
They can tell what he wants to do
And he never shows his feelings.
But the fool on the hill sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head see the world spinning round.
He never listens to them,
He knows that they’re the fools
They don’t like him. The fool on the hill sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head see the world spinning round

or

Everybody's Got Something To Hide Except for me and My Monkey

Come on come on come on come on
Come on is such a joy
Come on is such a joy
Come on take it easy
Come on take it easy.
Take it easy take it easy.
Everybody’s got something to hide except for me and my monkey.
The deeper you go the higher you fly.
The higher you fly the deeper you go.
So come on come on
Come on is such a joy
Come on is such a joy
Come on take it easy
Come on take it easy.
Take it easy take it easy.
Everybody’s got something to hide except for me and my monkey.
Your inside is out and your outside is in.
Your outside is in and your inside is out.
So come on come on
Come on is such a joy
Come on is such a joy
Come on take it easy
Come on take it easy.
Take it easy take it easy.
Everybody’s got something to hide except for me and my monkey.


or

Glass Onion

I told you about strawberry fields.
You know the place where nothing is real.
Well here’s another place you can go
Where everything flows.
Looking through the bent backed tulips
To see how the other half live
Looking through a glass onion.
I told you about the walrus and me – man.
You know that we’re as close as can be – man.
Well here’s another clue for you all
The walrus was Paul.
Standing on the cast iron shore – yeah.
Lady Madonna trying to make ends meet – yeah.
Looking through a glass onion.
Oh yeah oh yeah oh yeah
Looking through a glass onion.
I told you about the fool on the hill.
I tell you man he’s living there still.
Well here’s another place you can be.
Listen to me.
Fixing a hole in the ocean (he's talking about hell)
Trying to make a dove-tail joint – yeah
Looking through a glass onion.

or

Across the Universe
Words are flying out like endless rain into a paper cup,
They slither while they pass, they slip away across the universe.
Pools of sorrow waves of joy are drifting through my open mind,
Possessing and caressing me.
Jai Guru De Va Om
Nothing’s gonna change my world
Nothing’s gonna change my world.
Images of broken light which dance before me like a million eyes,
That call me on and on across the universe,
Thoughts meander like a restless wind
Inside a letter box they
Tumble blindly as they make their way
Across the universe
Jai Guru De Va Om
Nothing’s gonna change my world
Nothing’s gonna change my world.
Sounds of laughter shades of earth are ringing
Through my open views inciting and inviting me.
Limitless undying love which shines around me like a million suns,
It calls me on and on across the universe
Jai Guru De Va Om
Nothing’s gonna change my world
Nothing’s gonna change my world.

or

I Am the Walrus
I am the eggman oh, they are the eggman -

or

Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds

Picture yourself in boat on a river,
With tangerine trees and marmalde skies
Somebody calls you, you answer quite slowly,
A girl with kaleidoscope eyes.
Cellophane flowers of yellow and green,
Towering over your head.
Look for the girl with the sun in her eyes,
And she’s gone.
Lucy in the sky with diamonds,
Follow her down to a bridge by a fountain
Where rocking horse people eat marshmallow pies,
Everyone smiles as you drift past the flowers,
That grow so incredibly high.
Newspaper taxis appear on the shore,
Waiting to take you away.
Climb in the back with your head in the clouds,
And you’re gone.
Lucy in the sky with diamonds,
Picture yourself on a train in a station,
With plasticine porters with looking glass ties,
Suddenly someone is there at the turnstile,
The girl with kaleidoscope eyes.
Lucy in the sky with diamonds.

or

Nowhere Man

He’s a real Nowhere Man,
Sitting in his Nowhere Land,
Making all his Nowhere plans for nobody.
Doesn’t have a point of view,
Knows not where he’s going to,
Isn’t he a bit like you and me?
Nowhere man please listen,
You don't know what you're missing,
Nowhere Man, the world is at your command.
He’s as blind as he can be,
Just sees what he wants to see,
Nowhere Man can you see me at all?
Nowhere Man don’t worry,
Take your time, don’t hurry,
Leave it all till somebody else,
Lends you a hand.
Doesn’t have a point of view,
Knows not where he’s going to,
Isn’t he a bit like you and me?
Nowhere Man please listen,
Nowhere Man, the world is at your command.
He’s a real Nowhere Man,
Sitting in his Nowhere Land,
Making all his Nowhere plans for nobody.

or

Strawberry Fields Forever

Let me take you down,
‘Cos I’m going to Strawberry Fields.
Nothing is real
And nothing to get hungabout.
Strawberry Fields forever.
Living is easy with eyes closed
Misunderstanding all you see.
It’s getting to be someone.
But it all works out,
It doesn’t matter much to me.
Let me take you down,
‘Cos I’m going to Strawberry Fields.
Nothing is real
And nothing to get hungabout.
Strawberry Fields forever.
No one I think is in my tree,
I mean it must be high or low.
That is you can’t you know tune in.
But it’s all right.
That is I think it’s not too bad.
Let me take you down,
‘Cos I’m going to Strawberry Fields.
Nothing is real
And nothing to get hungabout.
Strawberry Fields forever.
Always, no sometimes, I think it’s me,
But you know I know when it’s a dream.
I think I know I mean a ‘Yes’.
But it’s all wrong.
That is I think I disagree.
Let me take you down,
‘Cos I’m going to Strawberry Fields.
Nothing is real
And nothing to get hungabout.
Strawberry Fields forever.
Strawberry Fields forever.

(Now think my friends)
Plumbo


Tell Me What You See

If you let me take your heart I will prove to you,
We will never eb apart if I’m part of you,
Open up your eyes now tell me what you see,
It is no surprise now what you see is me.
Big and black the clouds may be time will pass away,
If you put your trust in me I’ll make bright your day.
Look into these eyes, tell me what you see,
Don’t you realize now what you see is me.
Tell me what you see.
Listen to me one more time how can I get through,
Can’t you try to see that I’m trying to get to you,
Open up your eyes now tell me what you see,
It is no surprise now what you see is me.
Tell me what you see.
Listen to me one more time how can I get through,
Listen to me one more time how can I get through,
Open up your eyes now tell me what you see,
It is no surprise now what you see is me.

(Trust Jesus)

[edit on 16-2-2005 by Plumbo]

We Live Inside the Earth.
Job 38:33 kjv


The earth's atmosphere plays tricks on the eye. In Jeremiah 5:21-23(kjv), God uses a riddle to fool the rebellious and revolted hearted. Here is the passage:

Jeremiah 5
21 Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:
22 Fear ye not me? saith the LORD: will ye not tremble at my presence, which have placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it: and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?
23 But this people hath a revolting and a rebellious heart; they are revolted and gone.

At first glance and interpretation, this seems to be a contradiction. How can the sand of the sea prevent ocean waves form passing over it? Tidal waves and hurricanes pass over the sand quite frequently. But, notice in verse 21 that Jeremiah is addressing people who have eyes, but can't see, ears, but can't understand. The riddle lies in verse 22. He is talking about a 'sand' that is transparent, hence, not the sand of the ocean coasts. This sand is 'perpetual', meaning it is endless, or unbroken. Now let's look at Job 37:18, where the young man Elihu, paves the way for the Lord to talk to Job. He states:

Job 37
18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?

So we have the 'sky' compared to as 'glass'. hmmm.

Well, we all know that 'glass' is made from 'molten' 'sand'.
So let's see if other passages can back this up.
How about Genesis 9:13? It reads:

Genesis 9
13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.

White light, penetrating a 'glass' prism creates a spectrum.
Therefore, white light penetrating a glass, 'bowed' prism creates a bowed spectrum, projected onto tiny raindrops.

I believe that, prior to and after the great flood in Noah's day, the fountains of the great deep, which is a hollow, spherical encasement located high up in the sky, It has ice on the outer layer, and 'dark waters' and 'thick clouds' (psalm 18:11) on the inside. This great deep broke open and gushed forth waters with high levels of silica or sand. Eventually, after the waters had fallen to earth, this sand remained high up in the air, and began to melt. It formed a giant glass bubble, about 40 miles up, hence, the atmosphere.

If you've ever taken a tablespoon and swished it around in a glass of water, you noticed weird optical effects happening to the spoon. In similar fashion, this is how we perceive the sky. We think it is a domelike structure in which the sun and moon 'appear' to circuit. However, the 'actual' perception is hermetical. Thus, in reality, we live under a convex ceiling. Notice how the sun and moon grow large at the horizon, and 'shrink' when they are up in the middle of the sky. This is, in effect, the exact 'opposite' of what is real. On a hot day, we feel the intense heat of the sun in the afternoon, but it looks rather tiny, conversely, in the coolness of the evening and morning, it bulges out. Thus, the glass atmosphere creates an optical illusion, it generates 'opposite curvature'.

What about space flight. How does the shuttle penetrate earth's atmosphere? Well, we know that it is fitly enveloped with small 'glass' tiles covered with frit, which supposedly prevents burn up from extreme temperatures, but in reality frit is there to prevent fusion crust from formulating onto the craft. We know that the shuttle has to enter the atmosphere at a very acute angle. We also know that it has to be traveling 'very' fast to generate enough heat friction. It seems to me that they're tryin' to melt through glass, don't ya think?

Now, I do not believe in a force called 'gravity'. Gravity goes against all logical deductions of physics. I believe in, rather, that we are held to the ground mainly because of intense air pressure, which was multiplied by the glass artifice created after the flood. Notice in psalm 104:9, how the bound was set in place. It kept the ocean waves form covering the continents again....

Psalm 104
5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.
8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.
9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.

Scripture calls this glass bubble the bound. This bound also explains how tides work. Because of the pressure, the waters are abated, however, any orb or celestial body big enough to block some of the pressure will cause the water directly below the celestial body to rise. The sun and moon cause a 'relief' in pressure. Let's look at Job 38:20...

19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,
20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?

Light and darkness for that matter are literally taken to the 'bound', the area beneath the atmosphere. From God's viewpoint, He perceives the earth as fully lit. There is no dark side of earth, despite what NASA has shown you all. (I can meddle in Photoshop too!)

Psalm 139
12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.

How about what Paul says concerning how we see God?...

1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

hmmm. did anyone ever consider taking this glass literally? I wonder.

What about the foundations of the earth? Well, I believe that there is a gigantic, magnificent, shining, 1,500 miles at the base, pyramid in the middle of the earth. We cannot see it because of the dark waters and thick clouds(nebulae). At the apex of this structure is where God and His Son sit. My references are in Job 38:1-4, and Revelation 21:16. Look them up. A cube is not logical because it has eight corners. A pyramid has four at the base, which lies in direct latitude with the equator. Thus the four corners of the earth are located here.

I was once asked, by a renowned atheistic physicist, what difference does this all make, whether we live in the earth or on the earth? Well, according to scripture, the final judgment of the wicked is coming shortly. This is where the passage in Isaiah 34:4 and Revelation 6:14, finally make literal sense. It alludes to heaven departing as a scroll when it is rolled together. This is a 'literal' description of what will happen to the sky. In the expansion of an object like a tree trunk, or a fruit, or a 'mother belly', vertical stretch marks are formed which are in direct relation to the perpendicular axis of expansion. A tree creates vertical rifts in the bark, a cantaloupe creates divided sections, and a mother's womb creates stretch scars on the outside of her belly. It is well documented, that the "universe" is expanding, even at an exponentially increasing rate. This is verifiable by measuring stellar distances over time. In an accurate 'inverted' world, the stars are embedded in the ice of the great deep, the great deep, therefore, is expanding and will, one day, burst open. It will create vertical rifts in the sky, and the sky will appear to be unraveling, like a scroll rolling up.

1John 4:1-3 is a litmus test in 'trying' the spirits. It states that...

1 John 4
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

A conventional model of the universe cannot comprehend where the physical body of Jesus Christ went. I mean the precise location. I know He went to sit at the Father's right hand. I also know that according to scripture, God is very near..Jer 23:23, I know He fills heaven and earth, verse 24.

BUT, in an inverted world, Jesus is only about 4,000 miles away. His flesh is near us. So according to verse two in 1John, the inverted world receives a passing grade.


...the ordinances of heaven take dominion IN the earth..Job 38:33.

[edit on 16-2-2005 by Plumbo]

This is how I understand heaven and earth to be...

Originally posted by PlumboHow far away is the sun? If it is 93,000,000 miles away, then why such a wide temperature difference at the poles as compared to the equator? What's a couple thousand miles? Why are shadows of clouds, viewed from above the atmosphere, at varying heading angles, they're not parallel. Why, if the earth is traveling through frigid space, does it not freeze up like a ice cube in a freezer? How could the core keep perpetually giving off heat?

Explained already, with lower hitting angle amount of radiation per surface area is smaller.
Same reason why rails seem to be closer when looking farther. Or look lines of checkered paper from other side of paper.
While temperature of space is cold its density of matter is extremely low so total amount of heat energy (or "cold" in this case) is very small. Also in space radiation is only way for heat transfer because of that same low density of matter.
Earth's core won't stay hot forever. Ratio of mass and surface area affects to how fast cooling of object happens. Rate of heat radiation is directly proportional to surface area and surface area increases directly proportionally to diameter's square. Total amount of heat energy is directly proportional to mass which increases directly proportionally to diameter's cube. Also decaying of radioactive elements gives additional heat but also that will diminish while billions years pass.

Originally posted by Banshee
How about we act like adults and stop with the rudeness, mmkay?

I'm afraid that's just pretty much impossible, especially with someone "who has permission from god"... like religious leaders of world politics prove.

But, I have understanding. I understand how things work

These are the people I am looking for.....

Blind belief to something without proofs doesn't qualify as understanding.
First denying and ignoring scientifically proved theories as schemes of people and then hugging something which is based purely to people's stories and can never be studied, measured and proved is what I would call as double morality!


What flat earthers and other pseudoscientists are looking for is uninformed people accepting anything without proofs to make money (by selling books and stuff like that) and/or to get personal power over people.

How do we explain these photos?

View of the front and back side of the moon.


A view of the North and South poles of the moon


If an object appears round when viewed from any angle, then by definition, it is a sphere.

Plumbo, you need to study isostatic adjustment. This is the geological term for the process of a large mass distributing itself as evenly as possible.

With its large body and internal heating from radioactive elements, a planet behaves like a fluid, and over long periods of time succumbs to the gravitational pull from its center of gravity. The only way to get all the mass as close to planet's center of gravity as possible is to form a sphere.

Anyway if you're interested you can read more on this subject here.

Besides, you're still not explaining what causes the heavy mass to fall onto the tarp.

Objects act to minimize their potential energy by moving downhill on the potential energy surface. In the presence of another object, there will be a local minimum at the center of mass, so the nearby object will move towards it.

Yea, I see your point, but what exactly is gravity anyway?
I've asked this question to 'experts' and they can't give me a technical definition for it. I'm convinced no one can. I don't even believe it exists. If you've read any of Velikovsky's work on gravitation, perhaps you'll see where I'm coming from.

Jump off a building, and you'll learn gravity exists... (the hard way).

We've orbitted the moon, so nope, no bowl-shape.

Think about this though, the Earth is orbitting the Sun, so either the Sun decides to keep it's "bowl" to us at all times while orbitting (like the moon), in exclusion to the other 8 planets.....or it's a sphere...