What if the Sun was not Spherical?

Originally posted by ThunderCloud
So, is Heaven a physical object of fixed mass?

Yes.

If a wall of glass is seperating us all from Heaven, then why don't we shatter the glass in spots, and send rockets and shuttles into Heaven? We could all come and go from Heaven if we please if that were the case.

Well, Thundercloud, if you study my illustrations more, you would see that above the glass rim is not really THE Heaven. It is Space. Not Outer Space, but Inner Space. If you'd like, you could call this the First Heaven. The Second Heaven would be above the celestial sphere. This is where all the stars are encased in ice and covered with thick clouds (nebulae). The Third Heaven would be inside the big pyramid. Where God and Jesus sit. Our rockets and shuttles could never reach into the second heaven.

By the way, what holds Heaven together as a sphere? What keeps it from losing its shape and dissapating all over the place?

Equally dispersed air pressure for one. Ice for another. But since this sphere is expanding and will very soon burst open(Isaiah 34:4), nothing will keep it from losing its shape. capeesch?

Chicken Little was right afterall.

And where's Hell?

Glad you asked, Thunder.
Hell is on the outside.
Hell is never full...Proverbs 27:20.
Hell is bottomless...Revelation 20:3
Hell is without measure...Isaiah 5:14

I prefer to think of what humanity refers to as Heaven and Hell as two of many alternate dimensions accessible from our dimension through limited noncorporeal means; the physical laws of space, time, mass, and energy as we understand them would be fundamentally different there.

Yes, this is what many would prefer to believe what heaven and hell are.

Fictitious, imaginary, esoteric, another dimension.

This is a futile attempt to allow the denial mechanisms in our brains to work it's magic.

If you're a Christian, and you cannot tell me where the risen Lord Jesus Christ is residing, then your faith is worthless. I'm not talking about his spirit living in our hearts either. I'm talking about his flesh. Where is it located. At the right hand of the Father? Yeah, but where is that physical place? How far away is it from us? Another dimension is baloney.
He's right there, in the heart of the earth, not more than 4,000 miles away.

I'm not the one offering poetry as proof of my theories. The burden of proof lies squarely on you, as these are your ideas.

No, Thunder, I feel no burden. I know this is true. I am aware of reality. I know I am redeemed by His blood. I know what disaster awaits the unsaved sinner. I can scientifically describe how it will happen. I have given warning. This is not a vain attempt to gain fame, this is a God-given warning on the sinners' behalf. An extension of His mercy, of His grace. Judgement is coming.

The burden lies squarely on the unsaved sinner, not me.

I'm just the message boy.

[edit on 22-2-2005 by Plumbo]

I looked back at your diagrams I couldn't find the planets. I must be blind.

I am interested in is how the theory explains these photos.


Mars Photographed by the Mars Rover.


Photograph of Saturn's rings from Cassini.


Ring nebula photographed by Hubble.

The planets are those tiny dots around the ecliptic.



Yes the beauty of image manipulation. It is an art form in itself. You can take photos of a New Mexico desert adjust the hue/sat for the sky and ground, rubber stamp out a few cacti and presto, Mars.

I Have no problem with there being rings on Saturn. I believe they're there.

Hubble photos, on the other hand, only prove these nebulae are a lot closer and a lot smaller. These beautiful pictures of nebulae are what the bible calls thick clouds...They are a lot smaller than millions of light years across tho'.

Ha, to think that Hubble traveled far enough away from earth that it could get such extreme close-ups of these babies. Well, maybe it didn't travel that far afterall? Maybe, just a few hundred miles, huh....hmmm.

Job 22:14
Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven.

Psalm 18:11
He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.


[edit on 22-2-2005 by Plumbo]

Originally posted by Kinja
I didn't noticve your vote, so I will suggest you vote in the Poll about legalization of Marijuana. Good luck with the theory.

Thanks for the encouraging words, Kinja.
I don't vote, but yes, Jesus is coming!

God Bless

Now, since I've made a complete shamble of everything taught by the most brilliant scientists, begin to ask yourself if there are alternatively simplistic answers to the universe.

There is a red shift on one side of the sun, there is a blue shift on the other. Instead of resolving that the sun spins, ponder whether the sun is moving horizontally. Question if the glass in the sky is dividing the spectra.

Question whether or not red and blue shifts are proof of stars rotating and the universe expanding, or the spectrocopy is affected by the glass in the sky. Ask yourself why, for instance a planetary nebula in Draco (NGC 6543), when viewed through a spectroscope, showed no visible spectrum. Perhaps the glass in the sky and the grate in the spectroscope cancel each other out, no? Perhaps all of the stellar spectrum research has been tainted in understanding because they forgot there was glass in the sky. Maybe the stars aren't rotating afterall. Maybe they are approaching us rather than expanding away. Why is the red shift only visible from earth? Maybe because it's view is filtered through the glass sky, no?
hamenahamenahamena

When you all wake up and understand, there will be a revolution.
The dam will have begun to rift open.

It just takes a few brave, objective souls.


Looking through the glass.


Pull out plug.





[edit on 23-2-2005 by Plumbo]

Here's something I thought you'd enjoy pondering:

www-istp.gsfc.nasa.gov...

Originally posted by "From Stargazers To Starships"
If you stand on the seashore and watch a ship sailing away, it will gradually disappear from view. But the reason cannot be the distance: if a hill or tower are nearby, and you climb to the top after the ship has completely disappeared, it becomes visible again. Furthermore, if on the shore you watch carefully the way the ship disappears from view, you will notice that the hull vanishes first, while the masts and sails (or the bridge and smokestack) disappear last. It is as if the ship was dropping behind a hill, which in a way is exactly the case, the "hill" being the curve of the Earth's surface...

Here's a quote from a friend of mine...

Is anyone else out there aware that terrestrial measurements done on the curve of the earth indicate we are living on the inside of the curve? Plumb bobs suspended from anywhere on the surface diverge from each other relative to the distance between them at the top! Still bodies of water are measured to have a concave surface and what is normally assumed to be indicative of a convex surface such as ships sinking in the distance are eplained by distal foreshortening; they can be brought back into view with telescopes.

www.physlink.com...

Why don't you stop fighting this, ThunderCloud? Surrender is inevitable.

"You must look beyond that which you can see...."
The Monkey from The Lion King



[edit on 23-2-2005 by Plumbo]

Our great glass bubble in the sky creates beautiful imagery when projected onto watery surfaces...

www.sundog.clara.co.uk...

[edit on 23-2-2005 by Plumbo]

Originally posted by Plumbo
Why don't you stop fighting this, ThunderCloud? Surrender is inevitable.

If you're the Borg, then I'm the Federation (24th Century era, of course).

I ran across this website during my lunch break today --
www.midclyth.supanet.com...

-- and there are a couple of quotes which caught my eye:

Originally posted by Neville Jones
Kopernik’s "revelation/revolution," published in 1543, proclaimed that the Sun was at the centre of the universe, and this idea later gained the fervent support of Johannes Kepler, Galileo Galilei, etc., despite these men still having no evidence to justify Kopernik's original, outlandish claim...

Copernicus knew that the Sun was at the center of our solar system, but he incorrectly thought our solar system was the entire universe. If you hate the idea that the Sun is the center of the solar system, hold on to your seat -- it's only one of several hundred billion stars in the Milky Way Galaxy, which orbits a center (likely a black hole) every 200,000 years! Our Sun isn't even near the center of the galaxy -- it's actual location is on the outer edge of one of the rings away from the center. So, it's no surprise when

Originally posted by Neville Jones
In the 19th and 20th centuries, observational data showed that the Sun is not positioned at the centre of the universe...

The Sun being "the center of the solar system" and "the center of the universe" are two totally different ideas.

Originally posted by Neville Jones
...In order to preserve the humanistic, atheistic philosophy and edifice that had been lovingly built upon Kopernik's suggested cosmology, the acentric paradigm was born...

Huh? What does Earth revolving around the Sun, and the Sun revolving around the center of the Milky Way, have to do with religion? The discoveries of science have nothing to do with a belief in God. Besides, most of the famous scientists in history were strong believers in God.

You're probably going to love this website, so I'm likely feeding your fire; but, this discussion would get pretty boring if you gave up too quickly, so enjoy.

Originally posted by ThunderCloud
Copernicus knew that the Sun was at the center of our solar system, but he incorrectly thought our solar system was the entire universe. If you hate the idea that the Sun is the center of the solar system, hold on to your seat -- it's only one of several hundred billion stars in the Milky Way Galaxy, which orbits a center (likely a black hole) every 200,000 years! Our Sun isn't even near the center of the galaxy -- it's actual location is on the outer edge of one of the rings away from the center. So, it's no surprise when

I must scrath my head in bewilderment.

I'm proposing a new understanding of the cosmos.

I'm stating that the whole thing.... sun, stars, planets, nebulae, galaxies, quasars are located INSIDE the 8,000 mile diameter earth.

I'm stating that the sun is not in the center, God's heavenly Jerusalem is.

I'm stating that, because man has neglected the glass bubble in the sky, he has been misled in his conclusions about the size and distance of the cosmos. He has turns his world inside out and overlooked the physical presence of God in the center.

The glass is there and nobody's said anything of any intellect to prove otherwise.

I'm warning you that the whole sky is gonna collapse pretty soon.

Is there anyone out there who can either provide factual info disproving the glass in the sky or just simply agree with me?

revolted, rebellious, gone...



[edit on 23-2-2005 by Plumbo]

Originally posted by Plumbo
The glass is there and nobody's said anything of any intellect to prove otherwise.

I'm warning you that the whole sky is gonna collapse pretty soon.
[edit on 23-2-2005 by Plumbo]

"The sky is falling!" cried Chicken Little. "We must tell the king."

I better remember to pack an umbrella.
Why is the sky going to collapse now when you say meteors go through it with out smashing it?

Basically you are saying that every scientist has miscalculated distance in space due to the glass that they never knew about. But you know about the glass so you have more 'intellect' than everyone?

How are these scientists able to correctly predict the lunar and solar eclipses? How can they calculate the return of comets? With miscalculated distance how can we know that Venus will be seen in front of the sun in 2012? How do we know that there are 365.24 days in a year with out knowing exactly our orbit around the sun? How is it we know that Pluto has 90,700 (Earth days in a year?)

I have more questions.

Why are there only 7 planets on your image of the universe? There are nine in our solar system, never mind the planets orbiting other stars.

I Have no problem with there being rings on Saturn. I believe they're there.

I showed you that picture because it was taken from Cassini, a space craft, not from Earth. If you claim that is a trick just like the photo on Mars then I guess you can just say that about anything. I will have to dig up photos pre-1980.

The Diameter of the Earth is 7,926.41 miles. Jets fly at an altitude of about 33 miles. That making a diameter of about 7960 miles. That only leaves 40 miles for the rest of the universe to fit in?

ThunderCloud is correct. These are your ideas so the burden of proof lies on you, not everyone else.

All the effects of the 'glass' you have shown are caused by water vapor and the atmosphere. Have you ever created a rainbow from glass? Meteorites burn up in the atmosphere via friction. Ever run your hands on a rope?It burns doesn't it?

I hope you don't blow off these question like you did with ThunderCloud's last post.
You are an intelligent person I would hope you would answer all these questions according to your theory.

Originally posted by Plumbo

The glass is there and nobody's said anything of any intellect to prove otherwise.

I believe the burden of proof should lie with the one making the statement. Prove to us there is glass in the sky without using the Bible or song lyrics.

If the astronauts aboard the space shuttle were above the glass, why didn't they see it? Why don't their photos from space showing the Earth show any glass around the Earth? You're a good artist and may be having fun with your theory, but I haven't heard one person agree with it.

I am also wondering why you think the sky is falling or about to. Of course that will probably turn out to be a silly question to ask on this thread. It is true that the "sky" could start falling. However I would call that a massive meteor strike from the heavens, not a glass sphere around the Earth breaking and falling to Earth. Are you saying we will all die when this event occurs? After all you stated earlier that out atmosphere is held here by the glass sphere.

In spite of the disagreements, I do like your robot picture. You got a good imagination.

Originally posted by Plumbo
Glass in sky creates rainbows.

If this was true wouldn't we see rainbows every day, visible all day long, from every point on earth?

I'm getting tired of this thread.

If no one believes there is glass in the sky, I can't say that I haven't tried to convince them.

Spectrums are caused by glass prisms.

It's that simple.
They are viewed when water vapour is present.

The visual proof is right in the sky.
Yet you refuse to believe in the obvious.

The sky is falling in terms of the heavens unrolling like a scroll, the celestial sphere is expanding, stellar distances are widening. Ice is not that malleable. It will rift open eventually.

Basically you are saying that every scientist has miscalculated distance in space due to the glass that they never knew about. But you know about the glass so you have more 'intellect' than everyone?

No, I have more understanding, remember. A child can understand we see the heavens through a windshield. And so can you.

How are these scientists able to correctly predict the lunar and solar eclipses? How can they calculate the return of comets? With miscalculated distance how can we know that Venus will be seen in front of the sun in 2012? How do we know that there are 365.24 days in a year with out knowing exactly our orbit around the sun? How is it we know that Pluto has 90,700 (Earth days in a year?)

What does math have to do with optical illusion. What does counting days and analysizing repititious patterns have to do with skewed vision. Arrangement of planets in front of or behind other orbs doesn't make much difference if the whole universe is globally scaled down to a pinpoint or up to trillions of light years. Time and frequency are independantly related to the global scale of the container in which they play in.

I have more questions.

Why are there only 7 planets on your image of the universe? There are nine in our solar system, never mind the planets orbiting other stars.

7 planets are related to 7 lampstands biblically. Earth is not a planet, and Pluto may be a satellite or even fictious. Other planets orbiting other stars is more an exercise in microscopic radial velocity, which may be tiny particles orbiting tiny stars above the celestial sphere.

I showed you that picture because it was taken from Cassini, a space craft, not from Earth. If you claim that is a trick just like the photo on Mars then I guess you can just say that about anything. I will have to dig up photos pre-1980.

So what? Are you suggesting that the multicolored bands shouldn't be present because there is no glass filtering the camera? I'm not.

The Diameter of the Earth is 7,926.41 miles. Jets fly at an altitude of about 33 miles. That making a diameter of about 7960 miles. That only leaves 40 miles for the rest of the universe to fit in?

No, there is the invisible glass rim, which give or take is about 40 miles up, then there is vaccumous inner space, which is from the glass up to the celestial sphere, which is at least 1,000 miles in altitude, probably a little more.

ThunderCloud is correct. These are your ideas so the burden of proof lies on you, not everyone else.

Whatever.

All the effects of the 'glass' you have shown are caused by water vapor and the atmosphere.

Incorrect. Water vapour is the projection media, not the filter of light.

Have you ever created a rainbow from glass?

Yes.

Meteorites burn up in the atmosphere via friction. Ever run your hands on a rope?It burns doesn't it?

So, what's the problem then? What are they rubbing against? Air?.................................................................................................................................................. ...................................................................................................................................................... ...................................................................................................................................................... ...................................................................................................................................................... ...................................................................................................................................................... ...................................................................................................................................................... ...................................................................................................................................................... .........................................?

I hope you don't blow off these question like you did with ThunderCloud's last post.

Sometimes, Umbrax my dear friend, a quiet response is all that is deserved........get the picture?

You are an intelligent person I would hope you would answer all these questions according to your theory.

I don't think I am, but thanks for the compliment.

I think I'm the biggest idiot in the world.

But sometimes God like to use fools like me to make the wisdom of the wise become foolishness. Is 44:25, Is 29:13. 1Cor. 1.

I wish I could get across to you the truth about the world. I wish I could show you where my God lives. I have hundreds of years of "scientific" research to disprove. I'm tired. I can't do it alone. I feel like giving up. I've made my attempt to show you. I'm not a scientist, I'm an artist. I feel so limited in knowledge.

Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by Plumbo
Glass in sky creates rainbows.

If this was true wouldn't we see rainbows every day, visible all day long, from every point on earth?

Rainbows need certain angle of sunlight combined with water vapors thin enough to be semi-transparent to appear. Most clouds are too opaque. But, as we all know, we can fabricate rainbows pretty easily with a garden hose. In any event, the sunlight has already been filtered by the glass rim.

[edit on 24-2-2005 by Plumbo]

Originally posted by Plumbo
In any event, the sunlight has already been filtered by the glass rim.

Care to elaborate?

Originally posted by Plumbo
"You must look beyond that which you can see...."
The Monkey from The Lion King

Noted. Just because it looks like the Earth is 'sitting still' and everything else is moving to the naked eye doesn't mean that's what's really happening. When I'm driving my truck, it looks like I'm sitting still, and the ground is moving beneath me... but that can't be, can it?

The Earth itself, and everything else you see in the sky, is moving. Planets, asteroids, and comets revolve around stars; stars revolve around the center of their galaxies; and galaxies revolve around each other in clusters throughout the Universe. There is nothing in the Universe that is not moving, actually.

Originally posted by Plumbo
Spectrums are caused by glass prisms. It's that simple. They are viewed when water vapour is present...

Glass is only one of many materials that can cause spectrums of light -- and not all of them are solid. There are liquids, gases, and even plasma that can reflect and refract light at multiple wavelengths.

Originally posted by Plumbo
No, I have more understanding, remember. A child can understand we see the heavens through a windshield. And so can you...

Children make their decisions on how the world works in their minds based on emotional needs -- not facts based on reliable observations. They do not see the world as it really is; only as they wish it to be.

Originally posted by Plumbo

Meteorites burn up in the atmosphere via friction. Ever run your hands on a rope?It burns doesn't it?

So, what's the problem then? What are they rubbing against? Air?...

Yes!

I'm curious... what exactly do you think air is?

Originally posted by Plumbo
What does math have to do with optical illusion. What does counting days and analysizing repititious patterns have to do with skewed vision..

You're joking, right? That's hilarous! What does Math have to do with Optics and Astronomy? Only everything. The same goes for all the other branches of Physics.

Originally posted by Plumbo
I'm not a scientist, I'm an artist. I feel so limited in knowledge.

Knowledge + Understanding = Wisdom

You're missing part of the equation. You really should take some Calculus and Physics classes in college; you'll be glad you did.


[edit on 2/24/2005 by ThunderCloud]

Plumbo,

You certainly have a fresh way of looking at things. If your right then the rest of the world is looney. If you truely believe in what your saying in this thread then you or I are pretty clueless to the reality that we all live in hehe.

I dont think its me but ya never know for sure do ya. lol

Originally posted by kinglizard
Care to elaborate?