Elon Musk says Tesla can rebuild Puerto Rico's power grid, if given the chance

a reply to: BeefNoMeat

If a new battery technology and/or panel efficiency are to come along, you need an infrastructure to plug it into. Right now, yes , more expensive, but we could be looking at very disruptive near-term innovation. In the short term, we can provide an island the ability to better sustain a hurricane, and that, especially now, is something they would dearly want.

originally posted by: BeefNoMeat
You’re right. Nothwithstanding government subsidies, the levelized cost of electricity (LCOE [the cradle-to-grave cost]) generated from solar (any type) is still less cost-effective than that of any conventional hydrocarbon-based generation.

Its getting rally close at this point. Plus what is the LCOE of fossil fuels shipped to an island? People aren't waiting in line in Hawaii because local power is cheap no? Also are you refering to Solar Thermal or PV? Because PV's are getting pretty close to coal in terms of cost to generate.

Plus the LCOE penalizes solar/wind because it is not dispatchable as say a nuclear plant or NG, but batteries can and will change that as well.

Hmmm, not sure about the source and I typically avoid investment groups as their published data can be an attempt to skew the market etc. But that being said they do have another interesting analysis on the Levelized Cost of Storage www.lazard.com... that makes the case why this would be good for PR. Its a rough read mind you

a reply to: FredT

People aren't waiting in line in Hawaii because local power is cheap no?

Not many are waiting in line, actually. Two reasons. Net metering was done away with which messes up the amortization of the initial cost, even though the operating cost is far cheaper than using power off of the grid. And, the number of permits being issued was drastically reduced.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: FredT

People aren't waiting in line in Hawaii because local power is cheap no?

Not many are waiting in line, actually. Two reasons. Net metering was done away with which messes up the amortization of the initial cost, even though the operating cost is far cheaper than using power off of the grid. And, the number of permits being issued was drastically reduced.

These are exactly the kinds of hurdles that Tesla would be facing in PR, and I wonder if the urgency will override enough of this resistance.

a reply to: FredT

Absolutely it’s getting close, but the first derivative on its marginal cost curve is approaching zero and its 2nd derivative has been negative for some time.

BUT, if you do include those subsidies (I fully support), then it is cheaper particularly, in a place with the opportunity to create decantrilzed power distribution. So yeah, if this is a sbsdized venture, its unequiocally the most cost-effective means of generation. I think we see this very similar, I just recognize the subsidies are key and are what all the ‘hype’ is about as it relates to determining the most cost-effective generation of electricity.

a reply to: charlyv

I think he's excited about an opportunity to build an electrical infrastructure from scratch (pretty much). One which would be more adaptable than kludging an obsolete system. One which would be more cost effective in the longer term.

Living up to the dreams of his company's namesake.

a reply to: Phage

Totally agree. And a powerful name indeed.

originally posted by: ParasuvO

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: charlyv

Not really the point I was getting at.
The issue is that he is capitalizing on the situation, PR has their own infrastructure, he can invest by donating, but does he need to barge his way in and start governing power for those residents?
It says in the article that he already has a major hold over other small Islands. He controls their power, he allows THEM to have electricity, people pay HIM to use his power. Is it government controlled? Maybe a little, but at the end of the day Tesla is literally the Lord / Baron / King, etc. of electricity, it's feudalism.

The problem with what you just said is that every city in America is under a power company monopoly with a lord, baron, king running our power. In Nevada our monoply is Nevada power but each region has it's on fuedal power company.

Why wouldn't you want competition?

Because the competition never benefits the public?

There's never any competition in the US. Wherever you live, there is one power company with a monopoly. Hopefully with Tesla we can move away from the dynamic.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: ParasuvO

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: charlyv

Not really the point I was getting at.
The issue is that he is capitalizing on the situation, PR has their own infrastructure, he can invest by donating, but does he need to barge his way in and start governing power for those residents?
It says in the article that he already has a major hold over other small Islands. He controls their power, he allows THEM to have electricity, people pay HIM to use his power. Is it government controlled? Maybe a little, but at the end of the day Tesla is literally the Lord / Baron / King, etc. of electricity, it's feudalism.

The problem with what you just said is that every city in America is under a power company monopoly with a lord, baron, king running our power. In Nevada our monoply is Nevada power but each region has it's on fuedal power company.

Why wouldn't you want competition?

Because the competition never benefits the public?

There's never any competition in the US. Wherever you live, there is one power company with a monopoly. Hopefully with Tesla we can move away from the dynamic.

There will definitively be a battle. These are the cash cows of some very rich people. You would also wonder why, being in such a powerful position, they are not seeing the future as well and at least participating. What went on in Nevada, and the Hawaii thing Phage pointed out are the result of big resistance. I too hope Tesla can figure out a way to keep this technology moving.

a reply to: charlyv

There will definitively be a battle

Musk's Kauai model would seem to indicate another way (see earlier post). Of course, Kauai's model (a coop) was pretty weird to begin with, but it worked.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: charlyv

There will definitively be a battle

Musk's Kauai model would seem to indicate another way (see earlier post). Of course, Kauai's model (a coop) was pretty weird to begin with, but it worked.

Why did they severely limit the applicants? Was it just part of the deal?

a reply to: charlyv
Sorry for the confusion. That was a reference to Oahu. Different county government. Different power company.
But by far the largest population.

On Kauai, Tesla is selling PV power to the local utility, which is a coop.

a reply to: Phage

Thanks. I want them to succeed. I am convinced that we will all face this technology and how big business will cooperate or attempt to severely limit it. Money Money Money.

originally posted by: neo96
And just how dependable is solar power during a freggin hurricane ?

Good Hell.

Didn't matter either way.

Everything was pretty much destroyed.

Even a multi billion dollar Tesla system would have been.

Uh batteries....lol.

And a parking garage you lower panels into during storms.

But your right one power plant that gets destroyed is a better way.

Maybe a steam engine.

originally posted by: charlyv
Fox News has an article from Musk saying that he can rebuild PR's power infrastructure using a proven, scale-able method Tesla has already implemented on other smaller islands. I say let him go for it. Sure, he will make money, but look what they would get! They already needed it before the disaster and now there is this or the option to wait for years to get it back to what it was.

Tesla can fix PR replace PR power grid.

I see it as a WIN-WIN, however we will see how politics and personal interests deal these cards.

He can't be the only one thinking of doing this.

Puerto Rico is waiting to be transformed into something spectacular.

People need self sufficiency tech when it comes to the basics of modern survival since the game was brought to them. If they were allowed to remain old school survival, they'd be adapted and climatized to endure their situation better. Self sufficiency tech to power their homes is the only way to go forward from here. Reliance on a huge company that mass produces power to homes doesn't work anymore. It's too big, too costly and takes a long time to repair when damaged. 4-6 months before power restored to a home is way too long. Shoot, one week feels like a month.

a reply to: charlyv

it has the potential to be a game changer by starting from scratch.

however isnt most of musk tesla tech associated with govt subsidies and isnt rico in financial trouble. so i dont see it happening.

btw i inquired about the testla solar panels and it sround $44 usd per sq ft .

ats matrix dbl post glitch

a reply to: interupt42

Yes, I have said numerous times in this thread: the whole entire notion of solar achieving parity with conventional hydrocarbons is tied to subsidies; without those subsidies solar isn’t cost-efficient or effective.

a reply to: BeefNoMeat

Yeah right, whatever...

G20 countries paying $633 billion in subsidies to oil, gas and coal companies: report

amount spent by G20 governments on fossil fuel subsidies was more than three times the amount spent by the world on subsidies to the renewable energy industry.

link


My wife and me produce all of our electricity with non subsidized off grid solar panels. The cost of our system equals what we would have paid just to be connected to the grid! But our monthly bill now is ZERO. In 10 to 20 years we may have to replace it. By then solar will be dirt cheap!

a reply to: Ohanka

Musk has delivered on every single one of his ventures. He is truly one of the greatest visionaries you will ever have the honor to see develop before your eyes.