New evidence may suggest Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock was not alone in hotel room

a reply to: CriticalStinker
thenewyorknewsday.com...#

Man gunned down by an attacker with a machine gun in the crowd blows the whistle.

One of the victims of the Las Vegas shooting has blown the whistle to reveal that he was shot by multiple gunmen during the massacre.Rocky Palermo was shot by a gunman in the crowd during Sunday night’s mass shooting and says he has the evidence to prove it.He says there were between 3-5 active shooters firing weapons into the crowd and says there was gunfire coming from the ground as well as from above.Palermo was rushed to hospital after taking a .223 round to the pelvis and still has 30-40 pieces of bullet shrapnel still inside his body.Doctors told him the bullet was inches from paralyzing or even killing him.Mr. Palmero confirmed that his injury was caused by an attacker on the ground and that the bullet was fired at his with a horizontal trajectory and wasn’t fired down from above, although weapons were being fired from “all angles”.Oddly, Rocky says he has been trying to contact the FBI to give them his eyewitness account of what happened on that night, but his requests have been ignored by agents investigating the case.

Blast reports: Palermo — an avid hunter familiar with guns and ballistics — says the different trajectories of gunfire was extremely evident, even in the midst of chaos

youtu.be...

www.rense.com...

Having been the News Director and Anchorman at the ABC TV station in Las Vegas for nearly 3 years, I got to know a lot of key people in the city and the gaming industry. I have pretty good idea of how the city works and how it thinks and how it protects 'business' at all costs.

The word I am getting from highly-placed sources now is that every major Strip hotel already has hidden 'backscatter' type X-Ray scanners hidden behind the decor at the main hotel entrances. Personnel watching monitors constantly can see the change in a man's pocket of lipstick in a woman's purse as they enter and leave the hotels of Las Vegas. This was a big secret until one of the major hotel owners let the cat out of the bag a year or two ago. Even most employee entrances and exits are scanned and monitored. Security is VERY tight.

originally posted by: Butterfinger
He may have had a burner phone that he just chucked out the window to be lost with the tons of debris and dropped items on the street from the panic.

We will never know

That still leaves the question of who he would have been contacting using a burner phone?

I still reckon it's far more likely to have been a charger left by a previous guest, though. It happens enough that even ATS shouldn't find it too hard to swallow as an explanation.

originally posted by: Johnathanandheather
I'm curious what the numbers on the note are.

I believe the police have said it was a dope card.

When you set up a scope on a rifle, you zero it at a specific distance - for example 100m. For a target at 100m, the bullet will end up where ever the crosshairs are pointing. Because bullets don't fly in a straight line, the bullet might hit substantially lower on a target at 400m. So, once you have the zero at a known distance, you can then calculate what adjustments you would need to make to hit a target at other distances. A "dope card" is a list of these adjustments.

To an observer who hasn't spent much time with scoped rifles, it would look like a list of mysterious numbers and codes - especially if it was done by someone who didn't feel the need to label it because it was just for their use.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

When looking into the official timeline earlier, I began to suspect a second person, before even reading about this. I'd swear I'd read something about an exchange of gunfire between hi and cops, with 200-plus rounds shot off into the hallway of the hotel. Looking for data on that, to discuss with someone elsewhere, I discovered that there was no such exchange listed in the official timeline, and also that there were some very odd bits of data that were contained in that and other reports.

Basically, what I read was:

Thursday, September 28

Suspected gunman Stephen Paddock checks into the Mandalay Bay Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas.

Sunday, October 1 9:40 p.m. Country music star Jason Aldean starts his performance at the Route 91 Harvest Festival in front of a crowd of more than 22,000 in Las Vegas.

10:05 p.m. This is when Paddock begins to fire, the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department says Wednesday.

10:08 p.m. “I see the shots coming from Mandalay Bay, halfway up!” someone says in police scanner audio published by Broadcastify.

10:12 p.m. Two officers reach the 31st floor of the casino "and announce the gunfire is coming from directly above them," Las Vegas police later say on Wednesday.

10:15 p.m. Paddock fires his final shots, police say Wednesday.

10:17 p.m. This is when two officers get to the 32nd floor, where Paddock was, according to the police timeline.

10:18 p.m A security guard says he's been shot and tells them where Paddock's room is, police say Wednesday.

10:20 p.m. “It's been awhile since we've heard any shots," someone says in a transmission, The New York Times reports. "Does anybody have eyes on the shooter?”

10:26 p.m. - 10:30 p.m. This, police later say, is when eight more officers show up "and begin to move systematically down the hallway, clearing every room and looking for any injured people."

10:38 p.m. “We're investigating reports of an active shooter near/around Mandalay Bay Casino,” police tweet. “Asking everyone to please avoid the area.”

11 p.m. Part of the Las Vegas Strip is shut down, authorities tweet.

11:20 p.m. Authorities use a device to breach a Mandalay Bay room. "They observed the suspect down on the ground and also saw a second door that could be not accessed from their position," police later say Wednesday.

11:27 p.m. A second breach goes off. "Officers quickly realized there was no one else in the rooms and announced over the radio that the suspect was down," according to authorities.

11:58 p.m. “Confirming that one suspect is down,” Las Vegas police tweet. “This is an active investigation. Again, please do not head down to the Strip at this time.”

Monday, October 2

12:21 a.m. "At this time we do not believe there are any more shooters," Las Vegas police tweet.

source

So, we have no gunfire exchange with police at all. We have a security guard, shot in the leg, who claims he as shot through the door, and thus would not know who shot him. The same guard, we are told, helped in clearing out guests from other rooms on the floor, before they breached the first known room of the shooter. Note, they didn't seem to know he had a second room, discovering that door after they breached the first room. So, how hard would it have been for someone to clear a guest fro that adjoining room, not knowing that person was involved? Did anyone keep track of which rooms were cleared, and who left these rooms, how many people, descriptions, etc.?

Plus, one wounded guard, who is not reported to have been armed, would not have stopped the shooter from fleeing, and we are even told that they believe he planned to escape, though not why they believe this. So, he's instead found dead, having supposedly shot himself, after all of this?

it makes no sense at all.

Now, if there was another person, and that person fled before (or after) police arrived, that person could have shot Paddock, to prevent him from talking to anyone, and to leave him to take the fall as yet another "lone gunman". That seems far more likely, given all we know have been told.

originally posted by: Lucidparadox
In the main thread we have talked about this endlessly.

The pictures of him on the street with another woman (not marylou)
The receipts with meals and drinks for 2.
The room service cart having 2 wineglasses, and 2 dinner plates on it.
The fact that the adjoining room with the window broken out, WAS LOCKED FROM THE OTHER SIDE so therefore how could he have been the one shooting out of it?
The 3 newer videos displaying audio that appears to have different weapons firing at once.

Someone got out of there after the security guard was shot, and before SWAT arrived

Would appreciate a link to that thread, if you are able. Been looking at the details in various places, and there are a lot of questions! Thanks!

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

What are the chances shooter #2 went up? As in through the duct work? He had plenty of time.

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist
I had a theory that there were other people in the room who shot stephen paddock before they then went on a shooting spree, then they left the hotel with other guests but I did read that the forces were being shot at when they were outside his room so can't be so.

*snip*

I read that as well, but official timelines state there was no exchange of gunfire between him and the police. The only shot(s) reported was what is claimed to have hit the security guard in the leg. Yet, I a certain I read before about a massive gunfire exchange between him and the cops! What the heck?!?

originally posted by: Martin75
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

What are the chances shooter #2 went up? As in through the duct work? He had plenty of time.

Possible, but more likely, just walked out with the rest of the guests they were clearing from other rooms.

OK, so to throw my hat into the ring of theories, here's mine:

There was an original plan involving Paddock and other(s).
1. The plan was for someone in the room (not necessarily Paddock, though quite possibly) to open fire on the concert crowd, but towards the end of the concert. The other(s) may have planned to be in the room shooting with him, or possibly on the streets.
2. Paddock was preparing the room and the equipment while the other(s) were elsewhere.
3. The security guard interrupted Paddock during these preparations, causing Paddock to shoot him.
4. Knowing that he now had very little time before the authorities arrived, he moved straight to the main attack.
5. As the timeline had been interrupted before everything was ready, he realised his original exit strategy was screwed and he shot himself.

The reasons why I offer this as a possibility:

- I have come across references to a planned firework display at the end of the concert. This would have been an ideal opportunity for the attack as the fireworks would have masked the sound of the gunfire. Not only would it have made the attack more effective (we already see plenty of people in the videos dismissing the gunfire as fireworks) but it could well have given more opportunity for the shooters to escape as it would take longer for people to become aware that an attack was in progress. It would also make it more difficult to locate the source of the gunfire.

- The security guard said that he was checking another room when he heard the sound of drilling coming from Paddock's room. Some reports suggest that Paddock was drilling a hole from the room into the corridor, either to fit a camera or possibly to poke a rifle through. If Paddock was indeed still drilling, it means that he was still preparing. This suggests that he was not expecting to start firing at that point. It also suggests a survival mentality. I suggest that someone who wants to hold out as long as possible, is more likely to want to survive if possible. How they saw their exit strategy working I couldn't say, but they may have been planning to be on the move before anyone identified the source of the gunfire. They may have even possibly planned to move down and continue the attack in the casino or the street, so the plan could have been to survive the initial stage in order to reach subsequent stages of the attack.

- Paddock appears to have fitted some kind of blocking bars to doors in certain access points. This suggests that he was planning to do something very soon, even if not exactly then, as fitting them increases the risk of early detection. The end of the concert (if fireworks were indeed planned) would seem the most likely time. I would suggest that it also feeds into the delay/survive mentality.

- The amount of firearms, loaded magazines, and the mystery charger with no associated phone would fit the idea of more than one shooter, with the other (or others) having left the room while Paddock prepared it, taking the missing phone with them for comms.

- The noise complaint that Paddock called in against another guest. I think he was testing to see how the hotel would respond to a noise complaint, i.e., did they send someone to physically check or just call the room, etc. He wanted to know what would happen when *he* started to make a lot of noise. To me this suggests that he wanted to work within the hotel's reaction time, which suggests that he might have wanted to move on before being caught.

Why do I think he wanted to survive? Why would anyone want to live with this on their heads? Who knows. Possibly he wanted to make the FBI 10 Most Wanted, just like ol' Pops. There seems to be an undercurrent of narcissistic behaviour in some of the reports about him. Narcissists might well prefer to kill themselves rather than be taken alive, but I think they would much rather escape completely and take pleasure in reading the news reports with a glass of whiskey and a big smug grin.

Just a theory. Absolutely no useful links to supporting evidence given because... I really can't be bothered to dig it all out and link to it.

a reply to: EvillerBob

why bother with all those adjustments though?
he was spraying automatic fire. not looking through a scope and aiming

originally posted by: TinySickTears
a reply to: EvillerBob

why bother with all those adjustments though?
he was spraying automatic fire. not looking through a scope and aiming

Thats the question to ask. As an owner of an AR15, I can atest to how inaccurate the fire is when rapid firing. The muzzle climb is exaggerated on each shot even in semiautomatic, fast-as-you-can-squeeze mode. I've fired a bumpstock on a friends rifle and while its the most fun you can have with your clothes on, its horribly inaccurate. You can hold the muzzle TOWARDS the target but you're not going to get any marksmanship badges.

At his distance of 400 yards and the drop of roughly 320 feet, the dope card would only be good to get your initial fire into the rough area. At the rates heard on those videos, the bullets would have been "walking a path" across the festival grounds rather than accurate delivery of 30+ rounds to a particular spot.

I haven't heard if he was targeting large crowds of people nor have I heard of any type of ranging device being found in his room. Some scopes have mil dots in the reticle that help for quick estimates of range but you have to know the height of the object you are looking at to be correct. Being off 6" in height at that distance would magnify the mistake exponentially.

originally posted by: TinySickTears
a reply to: EvillerBob

why bother with all those adjustments though?
he was spraying automatic fire. not looking through a scope and aiming

That is what he did, but not necessarily what he intended to do. If not for the security guard interrupting, the attack could well have gone very differently.

It has already been said that Paddock did try shooting at the tanks, so we know that was a viable target from his perspective. What if the plan involved moving the car filled with tannerite into position near the large fuel tanks, then shooting it from distance in the hope of compromising the tanks? That would tie together the car, the tannerite, and the dope card. Or, if not the fuels tanks, perhaps just getting the car moved into an area where people would be within blast range.

What if the plan was to use high volume (but relatively inaccurate) fire against the crowds, drawing in first responders, before Paddock (or accomplice) started aimed fire at the responders?

There are plenty of viable reasons to prepare for aimed fire.

Tannerite doesn't explode with fire, it just explodes. The idea of parking the car near the fuel tanks is a clever one. If it went down as you suggested, the best he could hope for is for car shrapnel to puncture the fuel tanks and create a large fuel spill but he'd either need a lucky spark from the cars electrical system or incindiary ammuntion to ignite fumes. Cars don't explode into fireballs like Hollywood shows. They just tear apart at their week points; windows blow out, doors blow off, roofs open like a sardine can... And the most important part of all with the tannerite is it has to be impacted by a high speed projectile. He'd have to be dead nuts accurate through the car door to hit the box of powder.

If his car was in the parking structure, then that rules out the suggestions of parking the car out near the crowd for a follow up attack or using it to trigger the fuel tanks.

The marks on the tanks that show he shot the fuel tanks would show burn marks if he'd been using incindiary ammunition and Im sure one of the oress conferences or press outlets would've covered that aspect.

If he was planning on snipe fire, he wouldn't have had the bumpfire stocks on them. He also would be much more effective at getting maximum damage by the spraying method rather than aiming and picking off people. In a crowd that dense, he wouldn't NEED to be nail-driving precise.

double post.