Irreducible complexity and Evolution

a reply to: dragonridr

Replied to your second post wrt your God. Now as a Polytheist, I understand deities quite well. But I still say evolution is what has happened, not some Man in the Sky.

Creation has allowed for any and all evolution...
Any and all evolution is is Bound to "types"...
genetic code is a boundary which cannot be broken by mutations...
Irrreducable Complexity Shows that evolution as it's being sold is a lie...
The over a hundred years of experiments on fruit flys we are talking about multiple hundreds of thousands of generations...Trying to force mutations speciation evolution are an utter failure this is pretty much proof positive for the dominion of irrreducable complexity over the fantasy of evolution doing the impossible...

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: dragonridr

Wooley Mamoths became extinct because of humans hunting them but mostly because of a lack of fresh water...
Don't be lying like an evolutionist...
Or would you like to try and convince us that due to a lack of fresh water Wooley Mamoths took to the ocean and became...oh I don't know.... walrus let's say?

Way to go with the straw man argument. Woolly mammoths died out and has nothing to do with walruses. Oh and i love the lack of fresh water theory they lived on top of ice. Did you just make that up of course you did. The reasons were hunting and climate change. In fact the last ones diedd out only 3600 years ago. Thats why we can find them trapped in ice.

Now for my straw man are you going to tell me that some guy on a cloud just couldnt have made more??

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: dragonridr

Replied to your second post wrt your God. Now as a Polytheist, I understand deities quite well. But I still say evolution is what has happened, not some Man in the Sky.

English is a second language for you isnt it? That made no sense and i said no such thing.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
Creation has allowed for any and all evolution...
Any and all evolution is is Bound to "types"...
genetic code is a boundary which cannot be broken by mutations...
Irrreducable Complexity Shows that evolution as it's being sold is a lie...
The over a hundred years of experiments on fruit flys we are talking about multiple hundreds of thousands of generations...Trying to force mutations speciation evolution are an utter failure this is pretty much proof positive for the dominion of irrreducable complexity over the fantasy of evolution doing the impossible...

Now your just silly mutations occur all the time. In fact thats what things like downs syndrom is every animal on the planet has genetic mutations. Seems like a big flaw if some all knowing being created life.

a reply to: dragonridr

Nobody said you said that... give your head a shake...
And those are not my words either...
Wake up....

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Quadrivium

Your not making sense. You claim evolution doesnt exist. Then you claim you beieve it is adaptation of a sspecies to its surroundings. That is a major paart of evolution its called natural selection. A species better adapted to its environment lives on,those that dont end like wooley mamoths.

Read it again,

I see things a little differently. Life was given the ability to survive and it will adapt as needed to do so. The greater the need the faster the adaptation.
What we see when we look at evolution is actually the proof and signs of adaptation.

.
In my opinion, Natural Selection leaves too much room for error and chance to explain the diversity we see today.
And yes, I do mean CHANCE. For NS to work you would need beneficial mutation on top of beneficial mutation. Yet, if we ever observe a beneficial mutation it is countered by a negative mutation. take the sickle cell trait and malaria for instance. You will not not get malaria if you have sickle cell but it may kill you anyway.

a reply to: dragonridr

Down syndrome individuals are human beings...

Are you on drugs?

a reply to: Quadrivium

When you get enough information, you can make predictions, and see how they go.

I am afraid there is quite a bit of evidence for evolution. Lets start with (say) antibiotic resistance.
Or that all living things on the planet are either RNA or DNA based, and that those are the same 4 nucleotides (one different between RNA and DNA). But before you go "but there fore God", if God created life, he is a very bad workman, given the mistakes that occur in transcription, among other things.
Similarly when you sequence (when able) species, you can see the interrelatedness.

Again. Evolution does not invalidate that Deity (or Deities) could have created the first life. IT just talks about how life changes.

a reply to: 5StarOracle

I'm a scientist neighbour. There is no such thing as an evolutionist. I am also a Senistrognata more commonly known as a Págánacht. That is my faith. My Job is science.

The definition ofevolution is "the gradual development of something", in this case biological life. Change is not the start there of. QED

a reply to: 5StarOracle

Actually the extinction of Megafauna (including Wolly Mammoths) is more complex than hungry hominids It is far more likely that it was climate change that was the end for them. After all, isolated groups of them were around when the Pyramids were built, and not near humans. Yet they died.

a reply to: dragonridr

Try looking at creationist sites. They moan that evolution does not address this. Its like asking why Chemistry does not address computer programming, or Physics does not address psychology.

Non sequiturs are their daily bread

a reply to: 5StarOracle

Oh genetic code can not be broken by mutation?

Explain antibiotic resistance.
Lactose persistance arising in the areas where cattle were kept for milk rather than meat.
How Red hair is a different mutation in Melanesian peoples, neanderthals, and Europeans.

Irreducable Complexity requires a creator for your creator. Or it is intellectual masturbation, which I am told your god does not approve of

a reply to: Quadrivium

Not really. Changes build up. A few million years is a great deal of time for change to occur. The problem people have is they want a change NOW to "prove it to them". Well we have one in living memory. Antibiotic resistance.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
Creation has allowed for any and all evolution...
Any and all evolution is is Bound to "types"...

Define "types", because there is no scientific definition of it.

genetic code is a boundary which cannot be broken by mutations...

Says who?

Irrreducable Complexity Shows that evolution as it's being sold is a lie...
The over a hundred years of experiments on fruit flys we are talking about multiple hundreds of thousands of generations...Trying to force mutations speciation evolution are an utter failure this is pretty much proof positive for the dominion of irrreducable complexity over the fantasy of evolution doing the impossible...

You are wrong. The fruit fly experiment was a success.

Also, FYI the development of antibiotic resistant pathogens is a modern day example of evolution.

Also, FYI the development of antibiotic resistant pathogens is a modern day example of evolution.

Are Mutation and Evolution the same thing though ?

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: Quadrivium

When you get enough information, you can make predictions, and see how they go.

I am afraid there is quite a bit of evidence for evolution. Lets start with (say) antibiotic resistance.
Or that all living things on the planet are either RNA or DNA based, and that those are the same 4 nucleotides (one different between RNA and DNA). But before you go "but there fore God", if God created life, he is a very bad workman, given the mistakes that occur in transcription, among other things.
Similarly when you sequence (when able) species, you can see the interrelatedness.

Again. Evolution does not invalidate that Deity (or Deities) could have created the first life. IT just talks about how life changes.

Antibiotic resistance- Adaptation to environment. In order for the bacteria to survive it MUST adapt it was given that ability like every other creature.

DNA and RNA- The language used to create all life on earth. Why use a different language for each?

Bad workman? Muhuhaaaa........make me an apple.

a reply to: Gargoyle91

Evolution is driven by mutations. That is how things adapt. They don't suddenly change with their genetics unaltered. Antibiotic resistance benefits the bacterium, and they survive much better than those with out it. Thus, evolution in action.

The same story could be told about lactose persistence (the ability for adults to drink milk. You see this most commonly in cultures that herded cattle for milk, not meat. A dairy cow helps your food supply more than a tasty meat cow. But most adult mammals can't digest milk (the lactose to be specific), yet humans quite often can. Again an adaption via mutation that benefits the species. Oh and different populations usually have different mutations (we know of at least six) to cope with this. If God did it, he could not make his damned mind up how to do it )

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: Quadrivium

Not really. Changes build up. A few million years is a great deal of time for change to occur. The problem people have is they want a change NOW to "prove it to them". Well we have one in living memory. Antibiotic resistance.

Again this only proves Macro (adaptation) it says nothing about micro. It can not be observed therefore it should not be considered science.

a reply to: Quadrivium

What do you think biological evolution is neighbour?

Adaption, with better survival chances. Adaption via mutations.

The bacterium adapted. Those who resist antibiotics (and its several mutations, as different antibiotics work different ways to kill the buggers, I make pharmaceuticals for a living, and know antibiotics well) survive longer to reproduce.

QED

Evoltion