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POLITICS: Back from Iraq: Out on the Street

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posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 11:43 PM
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Bush's budget is a priority list, and veterans aren't on the list. The number of homeless vets is rising. Many return home to nothing: no jobs, no transition income, no homes they can afford to rent. Many, like Herold Noel, suffer post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), but are still waiting for their disability claims to be processed.

 



www.csmonitor.com
...the number of homeless vets is rising, in part because of high housing costs and gaps in pay.

...dozens of them, like Herold Noel, a married father of three, have found themselves sleeping on the streets, on friends' couches, or in their cars within weeks of returning home. ..."It's horrible to put your life on the line and then come back home to nothing, ...I thought I was alone, but I found out there are a whole lot of other soldiers in the same situation. Now I want people to know what's really going on."

...while an estimated 500,000 veterans were homeless at some time during 2004, the VA had the resources to tend to only 100,000 of them.

A recent study published by the New England Journal of Medicine found that 15 to 17 percent of Iraq vets meet "the screening criteria for major depression, generalized anxiety, or PTSD." Of those, only 23 to 40 percent are seeking help - in part because so many others fear the stigma of having a mental disorder.

Beyond PTSD and high housing costs, many veterans also face an income void, as they search for new jobs or wait for their veterans benefits to kick in.

Nicole Goodwin is another vet diagnosed with PTSD who has yet to receive disability benefits. Unable to stay with her mother, she soon found herself walking the streets of New York, with a backpack full of her belongings and her 1-year-old daughter held close.



Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Call it equal opportunity abuse. There is no gender gap in veterans' poverty.

Many vets return home sick, diagnosed with mysterious maladies labelled depression, anxiety or PTSD. In fact, many researchers are certain these so-called 'mental disorders' are manifestations of radiation sickness from depleted plutonium or other exposures. Vaccine safety is questioned regularly. But calling physical illness a mental problem shifts the blame from the government to the victim. It's a nifty trick that gets the big boys off the hook.

The new spin talks about "survival of the fittest," and assures Americans that the worthy do well. Unfortunately, many of our soldiers are not 'worthy' according to these values.



Related News Links:
www.cbsnews.com
www.military.com
www.costofwar.com
www.alternet.org

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
How BushCo. Supports Our War Vets
POLITICS: Halliburton Wins Again
OP/ED: The Final Solution
SCI/TECH: The New Military: Robots with Human DNA




posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 11:52 PM
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Yep, bad stuff.

I saw a news program where some guy that lost a leg was sent 'back' to do clerical work!

This is hard stuff. Vets have little to gain from an establishment that places a zero impulse on has-beens.

I noticed (and in your links) lost jobs to boot. Some of these guys/gals will find DAV and realize someone can help. The V.A. is out to lunch yet again. Too bad because there are a lot of good folks that work for the V.A., but they don't set policy.

This is Bush, congress and the military. All of them are at fault.

Is it any wonder that enlistments are down?


Support the troops, VOTE EVERY incumbant out of office


.



posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 11:55 PM
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Originally posted by JoeDoaks

Support the troops, VOTE EVERY incumbant out of office


.






There are no easy answers here. But a time machine would help.



.



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 12:37 AM
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A lot of Americans seem to blow homeless Vets off as malcontents or miscreants or some other such nonsense.

These Vets (whether you like the war or not) stopped the bullets that could have killed your loved ones, they deflected the running terrorists that could have spread Anthrax in your neighborhood, in short they stood the line.

When any society forgets those that protect it all too soon those protectors will leave.

Rome had the same problems in the end and relied on mercenaries because the Veterans had quit showing up.


WW I America and the 'bonus marchers'- AKA Gen. Douglas MacArthurs worst showing.


.
Where's that clown Rumsfelf during all this?



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 01:06 AM
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Looks like transition planning to me - they're phasing out the military - and poor voters too.... Dead weight in the brave new world.



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 01:48 AM
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Soficrow,
The threads you create are indeed decent talking issues,
yet
I get that "bush bash" after taste from reading them....your good at not coming right out as a bush bash, your implications of it are evident yet subtle.

Here is the first sentance of your post, one that sets the tone of things to follow, and pulls in those that wish to believe your slant,


Bush's budget is a priority list, and veterans aren't on the list.
Indeed a mostly neutral statement, yet one with a negative connotation to it.

Ok lets see if what you say has merit,
from www.whitehouse.gov...



Since FY 2001, President Bush has improved the quality of life for military personnel and their families by providing pay raises of more than 21% and increasing the quality of housing and covering housing costs for personnel who choose to live off-base.

AND,


Veterans: The President’s FY 2005 budget for VA medical care is over 40% larger than when he took office – enabling a million more patients to receive treatment. He has also implemented changes to ensure that veterans receive timely and quality medical care, shortened the time needed to process a veteran’s disability claims, and put VA on track to eliminate the waiting lists for veterans in need of medical care this year.


Now, i will NOT say that there are not vets that come home and have problems that are described in your cited article. CERTANTLY they deserve more help for their service from both the government AND the citizens.
BUT,
what % of the total vets comming home are we really talking about here?
meaning what is the magnitude of this problem....i suspect this may be a small % at most. Yet you seem to inflate this problem to a major one and then (imply) blame President Bush.

Now that ive provided some new info about exactly what President Bush has done on the issue you raise, how can you still support your contention that the President is "at fault" for this situation?

Yes you can say he's not doing enough, thats your opinion, yet when you look at the actual figures, it seems he has been taking steps to address the issue, and has seemingly done more than the past administration did on this issue.

This would be the third thread youve created that has had this anti-after taste to it...again your issues are good and you provide a link, yet in 5 seconds i was able to find data that you either overlooked, choose not to include, or was somehow hoping noone could find...and this selective use of info ALWAYS raises suspision of a "hidden agenda".

Just come right out and bash...why mask it with subtle inuendo?
Besides, 5 seconds of effort shows that Bush's budget DOES have veteran affairs on the list, unlike your claims that it doesnt...claims which werent backed by fact other than "some vets have this problem".



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 04:09 AM
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Originally posted by CazMedia
Soficrow,
The threads you create are indeed decent talking issues,
yet
I get that "bush bash" after taste from reading them....y
Just come right out and bash...why mask it with subtle inuendo?
Besides, 5 seconds of effort shows that Bush's budget DOES have veteran affairs on the list, unlike your claims that it doesnt...claims which werent backed by fact other than "some vets have this problem".



I read about seven articles before writing this piece. Here's the story about Noel I didn't use for the lead:




Some Iraq veterans are returning home, only to face homelessness and mental problems. Meanwhile, the VA is MIA.

Herold Noel served his time in the military, including the first five months of the Iraq war in 2003 as a fuel handler for the military. He returned from Iraq in August of that year to Brooklyn, N.Y., hoping for a welcome and a helping hand from the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), something he had been told to expect. That was not to be.

"The government says one thing, but does another," says Noel. "I came back to New York thinking there would be support; that I would have a job, but I was sadly mistaken." After eight months of cold sleepless nights in his car, the 25-year-old veteran finally has a place he can call home. If it weren't for an anonymous donor who paid for a year's rent, Noel would still be on the streets of Brooklyn, unable to see his wife and four kids.

Noel says he contacted several government programs, including the VA, but was told he'd have to wait up to a year for services. "It's time for the government to wake up," he says. "If soldiers come back and find out they were lied to, we're going to have a rebellion on our hands."

As small waves of Iraq vets return home, organizations that offer housing, employment and counseling services expect the problems will be unlike anything the United States has ever seen. They say they're not prepared and the federal government isn't offering enough support and assistance.

In some cases, the government is literally putting them out on the streets.


waroniraq




posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 04:26 AM
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CazMedia, the Bush crime syndicate and their coporate buddies dragged us into this war, who are we supposed to blame? The smurfs?



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 04:55 AM
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I didnt say you didnt do any homework, mearly that it could seem that there is obvious anti-bush bias in this thread.

Soficrow begins with,


Bush's budget is a priority list, and veterans aren't on the list.


OK, so where in the new article that youve shown as one of the source pieces for this thread can your above statement even be construed?

Now i can believe that the existing V.A. and other governmental programs (un-named but talked about in the example) indeed have rules and such that are hindering help from getting to the vets as quickly as is evident.

None of this negates the anti Bush bias im percieving here...especially in light of the info i provided about what Bush has and is doing with the budget proposals to have veterans affairs "on the list" to use your vernacular.

No doubt ALL veterans deserve MORE from our nation, yet i find the insinuations being leveled here innacurate to say the least.
Again, saying "here is a problem some vets face" is a far cry from casting blame onto Bush's budget as the cause.



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 05:07 AM
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Soficrow
That was a good piece, despite the protests of some who read selectively. Of course there is contradictory information floating around whenever a real story breaks. The federal disinformation campaign is in full swing to prevent insurrection. Say there are two news stories, one pro bush and one anti bush. Those who have a set of beliefs need look no farther than the news article that agrees with them. This prevents cross polination of ideas and a shifting, questioning state. Sides HAVE been chosen, however erroneously. There is little we can do to help the blind see. For the record I despise all politcians equally, because only crooked ones keep their jobs for long.

Isn't this the perfect piece for politcs@ATS though?



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 05:31 AM
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wyrdeone says in a paranoid, conspiritorial voice,


The federal disinformation campaign is in full swing to prevent insurrection.
Either put up some legitimate information
or keep your delusional fantasies to your self...
can you counter the info i posted or not? the budget is as it was proposed, the record stands as it does...im sure several sources will concur my info, wheres yours?

You talk about "selective reading", hell take off your blinders and see what im asking soficrow to answer....
Ive agreed his position about vets not getting help is valid, yet i have yet to see how he can level an accusation like this as his open,


Bush's budget is a priority list, and veterans aren't on the list.
and when presented with facts, still try to weazel his way out of being BIASED in his casting of blame....the facts ive posted you only counter with fantasy, nothing more...

get real.
Tell me Sofi isnt bias here
convince me his acusation has merit
prove my info false
come back with more than rhetoric about "sides chosen" in an info war...

Ive got an open mind
yet can see bias for what it is
selective creative posting using misdirection and ommission of fact to basically slander Bush with.

If it stinks like a turd,
it probably is



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 06:26 AM
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Caz
Why do we have to do all the work to prove you guys wrong? I don't even care about your inelectual development, but I do it anyway because what I say is the truth (amitedly as I see it) and the truth must always be defended. Both sides say different things. The only truth is that they're both out to confuse us. Here's an appetizer sampler to save your fingers the strain of doing a simple internet search yourself.

Anti Bush
www.boston.com...

Middle of the Field
www.factcheck.org...

Pro bush
billhobbs.com...

There is no objective truth in the media anymore, it's all varying degrees of spin. If you think one side spins less than the other, you've been duped and are probably a lost cause. Your mind has accepted a certain paradigm, and equates that point of view with the hollow word being used so frequently, 'Values.'



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 06:48 AM
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WyrdeOne,
At no point am i saying there isnt slant apparent in various media.

I AM questioning why soficrow has to taint an otherwise good idea for discussion with veiled "bush bashing".

again i ask

Tell me Sofi isnt bias here with his first sentance

convince me his acusation has merit when he tries to link the idea of vets in need to the bush budget in the first sentance he wrote

prove the info i supplied to counter sofi's allegation about the bush budget not including vet affairs is false.

until i see these things, all i can say is this was a great idea which was hijacked to become a veiled, subtle, bush bash, which attracts similar minded fools that cant back up the allegation....can you? Can sofi?



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 06:52 AM
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Here's a little something a vet put up himself. The title is "Homeless Vet"

desert-smink.blogspot.com...


Never did I think it would come to this. I’m that guy who hasn’t shaved in four days. I’m the guy on the couch, wearing the same sox I did two days ago. I’m that guy who has no place of his own, but migrate from friend to friend, eating their food, using their soap and sleeping in their beds.


Sadly, I'm sure this post of his will get a lot more attention than his post I tried to brin to people's attention about 2 brave soldiers who were lost in combat. I guess that was too pro-Bush in some people's minds, though Smink was just honoring 2 brave friends and talking about the enemy he was facing.

Before you get all excited, thinking he's turned into an America hating coward. Whoops! I mean consciensous observer, here's another exerpt:



I really enjoy being homeless. I wonder if I should hop on a rail car instead of driving. Now that would make for an interesting post.

Below is the best story I wrote over the past year. We sent it to People Magazine and various other media outlets, all of whom said "great story, but we really can't use it." Enjoy…


(The story he has is really cool! I highly recomend it. )



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 06:58 AM
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Caz
I understand what you're saying, I really do. You want him to admit Clinton was a horrible person as well, am I right? I'll admit it for him. Clinton, Bush and Son of Bush, Condi, Rummy, Ashcroft, Howard, Blair - the list of crooked liars in high places really is too long to be believed. I don't think that fact makes pointing out the actions of one of them any less valid. I'm certainly not going to put my reputation on the line defending these scumbags, when it's obvious they've abused public trust and even cultured a society of ignorance and fear. So what is it that you want? You want us to admit that we don't like Bush? Admitted. You want us to admit that we loathe the business as usual attitude perpetually evident in politics. Admitted. You want us to admit that we're wrong about this one piece of data? No way.



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 07:27 AM
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Bush's budget is a priority list, and veterans aren't on the list. The number of homeless vets is rising. Many return home to nothing: no jobs, no transition income, no homes they can afford to rent. Many, like Herold Noel, suffer post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), but are still waiting for their disability claims to be processed.


This is bull. THe number of homeless vets may be rising, but so is the number of single moms and dads and families, it is not just veterens. Many of these people went in the service to escape their plain life and do come home to nothing anyways. Find a job. Read the stroy, the womens own mother threw her out. Is that the Neocon Bush's fault? No.

I cannot imagine any mother telling her daughter to hit the streets of NY with a 1 y/o. This sounds either like propaganda BS, or this is someone who does not have aan extended family. This is not the fault of the Army, or my government, and it
me when people don't use common sense.

Now, as for this....




Many vets return home sick, diagnosed with mysterious maladies labelled depression, anxiety or PTSD. In fact, many researchers are certain these so-called 'mental disorders' are manifestations of radiation sickness from depleted plutonium or other exposures. Vaccine safety is questioned regularly. But calling physical illness a mental problem shifts the blame from the government to the victim. It's a nifty trick that gets the big boys off the hook.


Many have come home sick, I have friends whose husbands who have illness from the first Gulf conflict. This is more compelling to research than how we do not spend enough, hell, we can barley support the vets who fought in our other wars.



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 07:39 AM
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The only reason bushes, budget for the 2005 was so good to the eyes and ears of the citizens of this country was due to reelection priority, now elections are over and cutting and denigration of our own domestics agendas will start, the budget for 2006 if passed will denigrate the already bad situation in our cities and towns.

That means that as the years goes the cuts will increased. Bush does not have to worry about a third term so he can screw us the citizens of this country anyway he wants too.

My father is a vet and my father in-law is a disable vet and while my father has his own personal insurance and do not depend on vet hospitals, my father in law does. He already is worrying about the situation and my father and he are both lifetime Republicans.

Now they want to sugar coated with "wealthy veterans" well tell me how many wealthy veterans are out there, and by the way wealthy people has been benefiting from bush administration anyway. When the government mess around with a benefit it will affect everybody involve not only one races over the other or want social group in particular it affects everybody involved.

Bush priority is no the Americans his priority is to the corporate power and his last legacy to them and his biggest payoff will be the selling of our social security next.

The cuts on medicaid and to the elderly and disable will affect the single moms and the poor in our cities too.

Bush plans is for support of faith base programs at the discreation of the individual state government.






[edit on 9-2-2005 by marg6043]



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 06:17 PM
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President Bush is nothing more than a big meanie - a dangerous one at that... This guy (Dubya) gives new meaning to that saying: With friends like him, who needs enemies. Slowly, but surely he is effing up the USA and no one can do # to stop him.

Soon he will lose the support of the army, and then; it only takes one charismatic General...



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by twitchy
CazMedia, the Bush crime syndicate and their coporate buddies dragged us into this war, who are we supposed to blame? The smurfs?


No, give blame where it is due....Islamic extremists.....

But of course, some people have to use any excuse to blame the current administration....



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 07:32 PM
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did I miss something? What's WRONG with a good Bush bash? Of all the people on he planet he seems the one most worthy of a good ol fashioned stoning.



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