A World Without Religion?

Originally posted by shmick25
Man kind has already attempted this approach. Look at Russia during the communist reign of Lenin and Stalin. Religion was outlawed. Churches burnt down and destroyed. What was the result of this? go to Russia and find out.

Look at these x communist countries now like China and Russia. There is a massive amount of people accepting religion. It is impossible to remove religion from the world. To do this, you would need to remove humans or their ability to reason.

Okay, the absence of religion in Russia did not cause its downfall, read your history books. Secondly, you have been watching too much CBN.

Originally posted by xpert11If there was no religion to begin with then how would people know any differnt?

If you reread my post you will find I address what would happen if religion were to be realized as fake.

Why would governments collapse?

Originally posted by The Division Bell
Step outside your cultural views to analyze the question. Socio-economics would not collapse, it would just be a different form than the one you are accustomed to. Think outside the box, people!

The question was analyzed, see my response to xpert11. And I agree with thinking outside the box, so allow me to lift the lid and give you a quick tour outside of yours:

Government:
Let us head over to Iran for a brief stop, the theocratic government falls, Sharia rule is no more.

Next Iraq: AL Sistani would be heading back to the polls and looking for a new platform by which to rouse his once religious followers. As with Iran, no longer do men have any God given reason to rule over the women.

Israel, the fight between Muslem and Jew suddenly becomes a fight between Hebrews and Palestinians. The piece of land known as Temple mount is just another piece of land with some buildings and worthless ruins on top of it, a bad memory of centuries of bloodshed over a lie. The chosen people are just people, the anti-Palestinian Knesset members lose legitimacy, and world governments no longer have a need to pussy foot around religious doctrine and must revisit the conflict based solely on rights of settlement.

USA-Red states no longer elect a president based on his faith and the beliefs of his faith. S/he no longer receives any benefit from being supported by the Grahams, Fallwells or Jacksons.

Over to Vatican City where the entire government is washed up, the Holy See just becomes the See, and must find an alternative reason to hold onto the piece of land and form a government. Which leads me to socio-economic. The massive influx of membership tithes from around the world dries up, and along with it the properties known as churches either become white elephants or change into libraries.

Germany’s church tax is no longer legitimate, the billions it collects will have to be renamed an alternate.

Canada- Parochial schools close their doors, or reopen under a public banner as funding is no longer available through realty taxes.

USA-The issue against homosexual marriage must find new legitimacy, as it can longer be argued to be a sin. The faith based initiative screeches to a halt as its platform no longer holds true. Taxpayer funds can no longer be doled out to the already membership dry churches on this basis, and whatever social sub-agencies they supported. Evangelical ministries collapse or redefine themselves to keep the funds flowing in.

Worldwide- Hundreds of thousands find themselves unemployed as the religious based businesses under the disguise of churches, cease to be going concerns. Mosques and Temples too become white elephants or libraries, legion halls or Masonic temples.

The riches of all the denominations become a monstrous headache to determine how much there is and to whom they belong. court cases abound, class action suits are the order of the day.

Billions of people are in a state of flux, not knowing how to accept the sudden realization that it was all a lie, as they struggle to turn that outer moral code they lived by to inner moral value. Coping becomes a mentally destructive force, a psychological burden affecting behaviour and morality, and reflected in attitude toward work and interaction with others. Businesses lose productivity and income, and the cycle of funds has been broken and disrupted.

And that is just the tip of the iceberg, but it was just a peek out from under the lid.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
Billions of people are in a state of flux, not knowing how to accept the sudden realization that it was all a lie, as they struggle to turn that outer moral code they lived by to inner moral value. Coping becomes a mentally destructive force, a psychological burden affecting behaviour and morality, and reflected in attitude toward work and interaction with others. Businesses lose productivity and income, and the cycle of funds has been broken and disrupted.

Hmm. I thought the question were if Religion was omitted from everything from the beginning of time. Isn't that how the question was put?

The world would be a hella of a lot better thats all i'm going to say.

Originally posted by The Division BellHmm. I thought the question were if Religion was omitted from everything from the beginning of time. Isn't that how the question was put?

The initial post was a statement

Imagine, if religion never existed. No relics, no gods, no books of faith, no ideologies for man to pray to or obide by, nothing that resembles religion in anyway.

Followed by a compound question

(a)Where do you think the world would [be] (b)or how would it be without religion?

Followed by a request

Think very broad about this, go outside the normal parameters and how religion has been a factor, no matter how small it may be, affected our generations before us.

Examine (b) How would it be without religion? Where the interrogative has been introduced after the question "where would the world be?" Therefore, the same question is not being asked a second time, since the first specifically follows the statement about "if religion never existed." In (a) 'where' is representative of an after the fact, or in terms of development as we have it today. In (b) 'how would' and 'without' is a representation of both the state of live today or in the future. It did not ask: how would it be without having had religion? The request to 'go outside the normal parameters,' places no limitation to February 8, 2005, or any other thought, especially relative to part b.

Furthermore, my post once more stated: If religion was to be shown as fake …Which clearly introduces the future from today, that very outside the box type of thinking which is outside the box, otherwise by definition, it would have been an inside the box response limited by virtue of interpreting the questions in only one way, and accepts the poster’s request to exceed normal parameters.


Trusting the semantics are dispensed with now so that this thread can return to the topic.

Originally posted by The Division Bell

Originally posted by shmick25
Man kind has already attempted this approach. Look at Russia during the communist reign of Lenin and Stalin. Religion was outlawed. Churches burnt down and destroyed. What was the result of this? go to Russia and find out.

Look at these x communist countries now like China and Russia. There is a massive amount of people accepting religion. It is impossible to remove religion from the world. To do this, you would need to remove humans or their ability to reason.

Okay, the absence of religion in Russia did not cause its downfall, read your history books. Secondly, you have been watching too much CBN.

Yup, got no idea of what Russia is like, seeing that I have been to Russia and have visited their museums. You may want to do a bit of background reading on the link between Pope John Paul II and Gorbachev

[edit on 8-2-2005 by shmick25]

shmick25,
Nikita Khrushchev was beginning of the downfall for Russia. Khrushchev's reforms in agriculture and administration were generally unproductive and foreign policy toward China and the United States suffered reverses. Khrushchev's colleagues in leadership removed him from power in 1964. That was just beginning of the downfall. Then the soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 wasn't very helpful to Russia. The patchwork attempts at reforms to reverse economic problems only help to create more economic problems which lasted decades and was a main contribution factor to it's demise along with many other problems.
Gorbachev failed to address the fundamental flaws of the Soviet system; by 1991, when a plot by government insiders revealed the weakness of Gorbachev's political position, the end of the Soviet Union was in sight.
On December 25, 1991, Gorbachev resigned as president of the USSR and turned the powers of his office over to Boris Yeltsin. The next day, the Soviet Union was officially dissolved and by the end of the year all official Soviet institutions had ceased operations.

-----------A series of bad management and leaders led to its downfall, not religion!------------
Hey, I've been to the British museum, so does that make me an expert in anthropology? No, I don't think so. Just because you visited some museums in Russia doesn't mean your an expert.

[edit on 8-2-2005 by The Division Bell]

[edit on 8-2-2005 by The Division Bell]

Originally posted by shmick25
go to Russia and find out.

Если вы пошли к России после этого, то вы знаете где omsk? Я жил там как ребенок. Я был 6 лет старых, и я могу сказать вас Россия horrible и я никогда не хочу посещать
его снова. Будет downfall не было должно к вероисповеданию, Я знаю. Я находился там в 1991!
Мой русский плох, потому что я не занялся этим в долгое время.




[edit on 8-2-2005 by The Division Bell]

Ok. So you lived in russia and you know what it is like. I visited Vladivostok last year. My wife is Russian. Ok, so maybe religion was not the entire cause, I do not think I made this claim though. The point I was trying to make is that Religion plays an important part in peoples lives. Governments have tried to stamp it out, but they can not. There can never be a world without religion. Why? Because humans know they are a created being, much like the rest of the universe.

OK. My mistake then if I misinterpreted your meaning, sorry for being rude. That what I thought you were saying and was enraged, sorta.

Anyways,

Я люблю эту картину!


[edit on 8-2-2005 by The Division Bell]

Hey I can speak Russian too and I only know English and a little of Spanish.


Ваш баммай! Только ребячество. Жаль. Я нашел этого переводчика ранее и хотел использовать это.

translation2.paralink.com...

[edit on 9-2-2005 by maverick7236]

Ok, you Ruskies. Translate this weird email I got, I don't know what the heck it says.

And some more I've found.

Originally posted by mscbkc070904
Imagine, if religion never existed. No relics, no gods, no books of faith, no ideologies for man to pray to or obide by, nothing that resembles religion in anyway.

I can only dream!! Man, no more war, religous persecution, murder, hate. I could go on and on. The world would be 100's of times better off. The world mortality rate would drop substantially.

People would actually be held accountable for thier own actions, no more blaming thier evil actions on god.

Man, I hope someday, before the human species destroys istelf, we can rid ourselves of this virus known as religion and we can all live peacfully and happily ever after.





[edit on 10-2-2005 by skippytjc]