Question for 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists

a reply to: turbonium1

For overloadeding, you forgot..... which was posted once before as an example for your benefit......

www.ishn.com...

Overloaded bins caused building collapse, two worker fatalities

International NutritionAn Omaha building collapse that killed two workers and injured nine others was caused by overloading nine storage bins on the building's roof level, an OSHA investigation has found.

The January, 2014 incident at International Nutrition, Inc. occurred when a structural failure of the east side truss caused the bins to collapse down three floors into the center of the facility. OSHA determined that the bins that supported the east side truss were loaded with an excess of limestone. The extra weight caused the bins to collapse.

a reply to: turbonium1

Thought this was of interest too

Why the World Trade Center Buildings Collapsed
A Fire Chief ’s Assessment

vincentdunn.com...

Recommendations for constructing the new high rise buildings on ground zero
The steel columns, girders and floor beams should be encased in masonry or other more effective fire retarding material. Spray-on fire retarding is ineffective. Post fire investigations reveals the spray on fire retardant has scaled off and steel beams and concrete and steel floor slabs crack and allow flame spread.

Lightweight bar joists should not be used to support floors in high-rise buildings. The National Fire Protection Association has shown unprotected steel bar joist fail after five or ten minutes of fire exposure.

For life safety in high-rise buildings bring back the smoke proof tower. This allows people to escape fire using smoke free stairways.

Stairs and elevator shaft ways should be enclosed in masonry to prevent smoke spread.

Heating ventilation and air condition HVAC systems should be provided by unit system serving only one or two floors. Central air system serving 10 or 20 floors creates shaft ways and duct systems that penetrate fire rated floors walls partitions and ceilings. Smoke spreads throughout ducts of central HVAC systems.
The high rise building framework should be skeleton steel framing not center core steel column framing. There should be no bearing wall high rise construction. Reduce the size of open floor design.
Increase the thickness of concrete in floor construction. The two or three inches of concrete over corrugated steel fails during most serious high rise fires and must be replaced.
Automatic sprinklers should protect all high rise buildings. Firefighters can extinguish approximately 2,500 square foot of fire with one hose line. Two hose steams may quench 5,000 square feet of fire. The World Trade Center floor areas were 40,000 square feet in area.
Federal, State and Port Authority buildings should comply with New York City building codes and actually in some cases should exceed them. Remember building codes are only minimum standards.

Everyone be-leaves different things about 911 mostly due to the lack of information and will be that way for many years to come, their are too many Unanswered Questions but there are some things that are obvious,
how convenient that the US Military with having a drill the same day of the attack and would make the situation more confusing. how convenient the only jet fighters they had were two and were hundreds of miles away and were sent in the wrong direction at first. how convenient the phones weren't working in Washington DC that day But the White house and Air Force one have the most HI Tech communications. how convenient the hole in the Pentagon was so tiny a passenger jet would have never fit through that and no marks for the wings and where were the wings ? and a woman employee walked out that hole and saw NO PLANE and No Plane or Bodies in Shanksville. how convenient FDNY Radios were not working properly. how convenient many of the FDNY and NYPD cars a block away were burnt and not from the buildings fires. and building 7 and the comment from silverstein "we are going to pull it" before it came down. and all the mysterious deaths after 2001 related to 911. And Steel Columns that looked like they were PRE-SLICED for weakening. and so much more we will never have All the Answers.

originally posted by: bobw927
Everyone be-leaves different things about 911 mostly due to the lack of information and will be that way for many years to come, their are too many Unanswered Questions but there are some things that are obvious,
how convenient that the US Military with having a drill the same day of the attack and would make the situation more confusing. how convenient the only jet fighters they had were two and were hundreds of miles away and were sent in the wrong direction at first. how convenient the phones weren't working in Washington DC that day But the White house and Air Force one have the most HI Tech communications. how convenient the hole in the Pentagon was so tiny a passenger jet would have never fit through that and no marks for the wings and where were the wings ? and a woman employee walked out that hole and saw NO PLANE and No Plane or Bodies in Shanksville. how convenient FDNY Radios were not working properly. how convenient many of the FDNY and NYPD cars a block away were burnt and not from the buildings fires. and building 7 and the comment from silverstein "we are going to pull it" before it came down. and all the mysterious deaths after 2001 related to 911. And Steel Columns that looked like they were PRE-SLICED for weakening. and so much more we will never have All the Answers.

Since most of your "unanswered questions " are based on wrong information, I'd agree that you'll never get any satisfactory answers

Why don't you do some research on your own and figure out just how badly you've been misinformed by all these conspiracies .

As long as you have good mental health, you will see just how error filled your rant is.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

Thought this was of interest too

Why the World Trade Center Buildings Collapsed
A Fire Chief ’s Assessment

vincentdunn.com...

Recommendations for constructing the new high rise buildings on ground zero
The steel columns, girders and floor beams should be encased in masonry or other more effective fire retarding material. Spray-on fire retarding is ineffective. Post fire investigations reveals the spray on fire retardant has scaled off and steel beams and concrete and steel floor slabs crack and allow flame spread.

Lightweight bar joists should not be used to support floors in high-rise buildings. The National Fire Protection Association has shown unprotected steel bar joist fail after five or ten minutes of fire exposure.

For life safety in high-rise buildings bring back the smoke proof tower. This allows people to escape fire using smoke free stairways.

Stairs and elevator shaft ways should be enclosed in masonry to prevent smoke spread.

Heating ventilation and air condition HVAC systems should be provided by unit system serving only one or two floors. Central air system serving 10 or 20 floors creates shaft ways and duct systems that penetrate fire rated floors walls partitions and ceilings. Smoke spreads throughout ducts of central HVAC systems.
The high rise building framework should be skeleton steel framing not center core steel column framing. There should be no bearing wall high rise construction. Reduce the size of open floor design.
Increase the thickness of concrete in floor construction. The two or three inches of concrete over corrugated steel fails during most serious high rise fires and must be replaced.
Automatic sprinklers should protect all high rise buildings. Firefighters can extinguish approximately 2,500 square foot of fire with one hose line. Two hose steams may quench 5,000 square feet of fire. The World Trade Center floor areas were 40,000 square feet in area.
Federal, State and Port Authority buildings should comply with New York City building codes and actually in some cases should exceed them. Remember building codes are only minimum standards.

They propose some improvements to resist fires, that's all.

It doest resolve the problem of how it could have collapsed like this, in any way.


Nobody can ever resolve the problem.


What is the main purpose of studying a structural collapse?

To know why it collapsed, which allows them to correct the issue(s) before the building of future structures.

If flaws CAN ACCOUNT for these specific collapses, which you, and NIST, think is true...then why can't anyone, anywhere, ever ACCOUNT for it, at all??


Because nobody can prove an impossible claim, obviously.


Figure it out.

a reply to: turbonium1

So, just ignore:

It's basic engineering that exceeding load limits and ratings cause failure. Greater the magnitude of the over loading, quicker and more catastrophic the failure. Your rant about repeatable science is BS. Floor load capacities are based on modeling, studied characteristics of material, and engineering best practices from past buildings failures.

I gave examples where buildings have collapsed from being overloaded.

The Meridian Windsor steel structure had complete failure above the 17th floor because of fire.

The Plasco high rise was a steel structure failure and collapse because of fire.

Dust generation at the WTC was not abnormal for a fire / gravity collapse as proven by videos of buildings that collapse during earthquakes. Also, videos of building implosions show charges setting off cause little dust creation.

The WTC towers floor system fell at 2/3 reds the rate of free fall.

Large lengths of the WTC core columns were left standing ofter the floor system collapsed, and fell at 40 % the rate of free fall.

What is your evidence for CD again?

a reply to: bobw927

No evidence of a plane at shanksvill, a lie.

So believe you as a complete stranger?

Or believe the civilians that attest to flight 77 flying overhead to its crash site and the explosion. The 1400 individuals that attest to recovering human remains, wreckage, the trees burt by jet fuel, remains, wreckage, and personal effects in a large debris field and in tree tops. The DNA testing that confirmed the crew and passengers ended up at shanksville, and the families that received the remains for burial. An event backed by radar data and flight controllers?

a reply to: bobw927

What evidence of pre sliced columns? Like to see the evidence?

a reply to: bobw927

Thanks for adding to the list of idiotic WTC theories....

Sliced columns
Missles/lasers and holograms
Fire extinguisher bombs
Rebar covered in c-4
Nukes
Fizzle no flash bombs
Thermite ceiling tiles and/or paint
Dustification
Dancing Jewish people causing an earthquake

a reply to: bobw927


Everything you said is essentially correct, and the questions it raises is what's important.

But, those are the things one is not supposed to talk about in public some say. You are doing the equivalent of calling out to the crowd that truly, the Emperor wears no clothes.

What happened on 911 was a magnificent deception, a bright and shining lie to the world. Bold statement, but murder and thievery on a large scale.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: bobw927

No evidence of a plane at shanksvill, a lie.

So believe you as a complete stranger?

Or believe the civilians that attest to flight 77 flying overhead to its crash site and the explosion. The 1400 individuals that attest to recovering human remains, wreckage, the trees burt by jet fuel, remains, wreckage, and personal effects in a large debris field and in tree tops. The DNA testing that confirmed the crew and passengers ended up at shanksville, and the families that received the remains for burial. An event backed by radar data and flight controllers?

They just forgot to write down their findings on a government document, eh NF? But they are happy to testify about it on the internet 16 years later. That's comical.

Nobody has ever been able to examine the aircraft debris because of government secrecy.

I saw a dozen times the footage from over that field, including on the day it happened. There was no wrecked airliner in that field or the woods next to it, and everybody there agreed.

originally posted by: Salander

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: bobw927

No evidence of a plane at shanksvill, a lie.

So believe you as a complete stranger?

Or believe the civilians that attest to flight 77 flying overhead to its crash site and the explosion. The 1400 individuals that attest to recovering human remains, wreckage, the trees burt by jet fuel, remains, wreckage, and personal effects in a large debris field and in tree tops. The DNA testing that confirmed the crew and passengers ended up at shanksville, and the families that received the remains for burial. An event backed by radar data and flight controllers?

There was no wrecked airliner in that field or the woods next to it, and everybody there agreed.

This is you repeating an proven lie.

I've provided an eyewitness to the plane crash elsewhere. He SAW the plane plow into the ground and SAW debris go flying.

I provided an eyewitness- an arborist - that spent days picking plane parts and body parts out of the trees.

You are a proven liar.

I can provide links and quotes to anyone that asks.

a reply to: Salander

And you still cannot produce those quotes you claim exists. You cannot cite evidence to back your claims.


Then produce the video people said no wreckage or flight 93 didn't crash. I can find lots of video that the wreckage was small from 9/11.

I see wreckage in some of this video.

9/11 News Coverage: 10:03 AM: UA 93 Crashes in Pennsylvania
m.youtube.com...

Sorry It doesn't look like the wreckage in a Wile E Coyote cartoon.

originally posted by: bobw927

the hole in the Pentagon was so tiny

a woman employee walked out that hole.

Don't be ridiculous the hole was far to small for April Gallop to fit through.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

So, just ignore:

It's basic engineering that exceeding load limits and ratings cause failure. Greater the magnitude of the over loading, quicker and more catastrophic the failure. Your rant about repeatable science is BS. Floor load capacities are based on modeling, studied characteristics of material, and engineering best practices from past buildings failures.

I gave examples where buildings have collapsed from being overloaded.

The Meridian Windsor steel structure had complete failure above the 17th floor because of fire.

The Plasco high rise was a steel structure failure and collapse because of fire.

Dust generation at the WTC was not abnormal for a fire / gravity collapse as proven by videos of buildings that collapse during earthquakes. Also, videos of building implosions show charges setting off cause little dust creation.

The WTC towers floor system fell at 2/3 reds the rate of free fall.

Large lengths of the WTC core columns were left standing ofter the floor system collapsed, and fell at 40 % the rate of free fall.


What is your evidence for CD again?

I'd like to see any evidence it was NOT a CD.

All the proof for CD's is found in the videos, and images, of the collapses.

There is a synchronized loss of structural supports, downward, at each floor, which allows a uniform, directly downward collapse.

And that is the proof of a CD, right there.

Any collapse that has ever lost all supports, with such precision timing, in exact order, has been a CD.


Claiming that three buildings lost support in the same way, same precision timing, same exact order downward, uniformly, floor by floor.....THAT is what needs proof.

As for REPLICATING it...

Any structural collapse can be replicated. If they couldn't replicate the collapse, specifically, replicate the structural points it failed, or may have failed.

It doesn't stop at finding the original cause(s) of a collapse.That does not show us WHERE it had actually failed, along the process. Nor does it help us find specifically WHY it failed.


As two collapses were never known to happen, so unique, it would never be known before. And when did any collapse, unknown before, look into what caused the initial point of failure, and STOP.

They had the gall to write a study on the collapses, without mentioning how they actually collapsed, because - as everyone already knows - the collapses were......'inevitable'!!

These scientists count on you to buy the 911 story, and then, nobody notices the study of the collapses.....actually didn't study the collapse.

Study anything that occurs, but just to the point it begins. Proclaim 'The rest was inevitable'.

All done!


When they said the entire collapse(s) were 'inevitable', they had NEVER SEEN AN ENTIRE COLLAPSE BEFORE - except for CD's.

They'd never seen one, or even known if it was possible, but somehow, they 'know'... 'it was inevitable'!!

What a joke!


The Meridian Windsor looked like a massive torch, burning on and on, for hours.

It didn't have a total collapse.
The WTC had campfires, in comparison.

The Windsor only serves my point... thanks...

Look at the Plasco collapse...


You are sure that this collapse ...

That looks much the same as WTC 7's collapse...


Two buildings with almost identical collapses. Which are signature features of most CD's.


Simple to grasp the whole point, no?

a reply to: turbonium1

You have never posted video or linked to video that showed evidence of demolitions CD.

Videos showing inward bowing and buckling with no proof of explosions.

9/11: North Tower Collapse (Etienne Sauret)
m.youtube.com...

the-pre-collapse-inward-bowing-of-wtc2.t4760/
www.metabunk.org...

WTC2 Collapse Initiation Sound - Version #1 (B. Levy)
m.youtube.com...

The truth movement started on the belief the towers were brought down by CD is based on lies. The original cry was collapse at free fall speed. The towers fell through the path of greatest resistance. Again the floor system fell at 2/3rds the rate of free fall. The core columns at 40 percent the rate free fall. The path of greatest resistance was the core columns, which the core column system remained standing whole seconds after complete collapse of the floor systems. The truth movement is based on lies.

You want to post BS that floor system collapse is not scientific? When the load capacities of floors are based on material science, engineering best practices, and lessons from engineering accidents.

I have posted examples of buildings that have collapsed from overloadeding.

The Madrid Windsor had a complete steel structure failure because of fire above the 17th floor.

Who went in to rig the Plasco building? Why?

If WTC buildings and the Plasco buildings were rigged, how did the demolitions systems, demolitions wiring, and the detonators, survive the fires? How did the demolitions systems in the WTC tower survive jet impacts that cut fire water mains and elevator cables.

Please show where a hi rise building was ever brought down by top down explosives CD or by thermite.

You have posted NO PROOF of CD. While your basis in your belief and false statements have been debunked.

While your questions and concerns are clearly address with video and evidence. While you ignore questions directed at you, and fail to provide any proof.

You only have innuendo and rants based on false narratives.

a reply to: turbonium1

All the proof for CD's is found in the videos, and images, of the collapses.

So if you believe in CD then you must have answers for all the questions that follow.

Why three buildings ? Wouldn't one be enough?

What was the ultimate goal?
War with Iraq?
You think the WH set the whole thing up to go after Saddam?
So all the arms contractors said lets kill a bunch of random Amarican's to get contracts?

Why bother with having flight 93? Overkill.

How did they control the proof of blown apart steel?
Three buildings of it?
Were all of those first responders in on it?
All of the people going through the debris were in on it?

How do you convince the NYFD and NYPD to accept and hide the murders of their brothers?
Do you really they could keep such a secret?

Many of them now have cancers from the AQ.
But they still blindly hide what they saw that didn't look right ?

You can't say it was CD and leave it at that.
ALL of the other evidence must fall in line with doing CD.
Now prove it.

originally posted by: MrBig2430

originally posted by: Salander

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: bobw927

No evidence of a plane at shanksvill, a lie.

So believe you as a complete stranger?

Or believe the civilians that attest to flight 77 flying overhead to its crash site and the explosion. The 1400 individuals that attest to recovering human remains, wreckage, the trees burt by jet fuel, remains, wreckage, and personal effects in a large debris field and in tree tops. The DNA testing that confirmed the crew and passengers ended up at shanksville, and the families that received the remains for burial. An event backed by radar data and flight controllers?

There was no wrecked airliner in that field or the woods next to it, and everybody there agreed.

This is you repeating an proven lie.

I've provided an eyewitness to the plane crash elsewhere. He SAW the plane plow into the ground and SAW debris go flying.

I provided an eyewitness- an arborist - that spent days picking plane parts and body parts out of the trees.

You are a proven liar.

I can provide links and quotes to anyone that asks.

Good, cause I'm asking. Prove that UA93 crashed there in PA. And while you're at it, prove that Miller was lying the first time he spoke to the cameras, and telling the truth when he changed his story.

An arborist, hired by the government to pick human remains out of trees where nobody else was allowed

originally posted by: Salander

Prove that UA93 crashed there in PA.

www.ntsb.gov...


OK it's proven. Now what ?