Parents of Otto Warmbier, US citizen detained in North Korea, want son to be part of negotiations

So, here we have a kid that by all accounts seems like a smart kid. Did well in school, graduated Salutatorian, double majored in college, etc...

So he takes a trip to NoKo in late 2015/early 2016 and does something REALLY stupid. He steals a sign from a hotel wall to bring back home. Now that all seems pretty petty to me, pretty much a college age kid prank with one exception, he was in NoKo...so that SHOULD immediately rule out doing something stupid. I am sure he was briefed on where to go and not to go and what to do and not do.

On another note, WHY would you want to travel to NoKo at this particular time anyways? Tensions were high and it seems a very risky trip for anyone to take, let alone a poor decision making fresh college grad. This seems a lot like the whole Ryan Lokte thing with the faked mugging incident to me....just a stupid decision.

Now while this kid was given a VERY harsh sentence under standards in the US, shouldn't he have known that doing something like defacing or stealing a sign with a previously hailed leader of the country could lead to some serious consequences? Why would you do something so stupid in a country where there is no telling what the possible punishment could be.

Anywho, while I do have some sympathy for him, I think the parents should have kept him from going on this trip, and his judgement seems to be very questionable as far as deciding to go on this trip and then doing something stupid while on the trip.

I don't really have any doubt in my mind that he did what they say he did as it seems very much an act that an ignorant, young American citizen would do...not that we are all like that, just that I can completely see this playing out exactly as they said.

Anywho, what are anyone else's thoughts on this? I personally hate that an idiot kid is being brought into politics. His well being should not have anything to do with how we interact with NoKo. I don't think it was handled in the correct manner with Obama, and I don't think Trump should get involved. While it is very sweet and nice to believe we should try to include him in some sort of negotiation, I just don't understand how this incident is really indicative of anything other than ignorance and stupidity at it's finest.

That all said, should one of my kids ever do anything this stupid, I would do everything I could to get them back as well. I hope I have raised them better than this, and to understand where it is safe to travel for them and to be respectful of other cultures when they travel.

So...let Otto burn or bring him back?

Link

The 22-year-old Warmbier has served just over a year of his 15-year sentence -- allegedly for taking down a sign of the dead dictator Kim Jong Il while Warmbier was in the country with a tour group. And now, with the U.S. stepping up pressure – and likely sanctions – on an increasingly hostile North Korea, Warmbier’s parents hope their son is part of any negotiations, should the reclusive regime seek to come to the bargaining table.

“Nothing Otto may or may not have done in North Korea rises to this level of punishment,” Fred Warmbier told “Fox & Friends” on Monday. “We’re here to make sure that Otto is included in any dialogue or diplomacy with North Korea.”

My problem with the parents is this last quote exactly. He was not on some political mission when he went there, so why would he be included in anything to do with diplomacy? Had that been the case, should he not have been diplomatic about his decisions?

Anywho....I have a hard spot in my heart for stupidity and find it hard to care a lot when there are MUCH bigger issues around the world that people did NOT bring upon themselves.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

# that, he's an American, we used to fly god damn commando missions to break free our citizens held abroad. Grenada being a great example. Let's get him out of there, now, not tomorrow, now! If he didn't commit a real crime, such as murder, robbery, and something else that is heinous our government should be doing EVERYTHING to get him back to the United States. Stealth prison break, send in the Navy Seals, who cares, let's get our countryman back home!

Stupid people win stupid prizes and Otto won

I feel that for as bright as this kid may be, he did not learn that famous line: When in Rome, do as the Romans do!
To apply that to his situation, he has travelled to another country, specifically a country where you know you are going to be under the highest level of scrutiny, so he should have been well aware of the fact that taking anything not specifically handed to him should be considered a no-no. Taking a sign from off of a wall should have created a large red flag in his mind and huge amount of internal conflict which he chose to ignore.

So, that brings us to where he is now doing the time for the crime which is unfortunately quite a bit harsher than the laws he would have been slapped on the wrist with back home. Again, not his country but certainly his crime.

Now the parents see some diplomatic talks taking place and decide that they want to piggy-back their sons plight onto this world stage. It is not a bad idea and if it was my child, I may have tried this as well but I probably wouldn't have let me child go on a journey to a place like that.

I do think that a certain amount of people are let into the country just so they can be used as pawns whenever their gov't needs to make a statement and that is another reason I would warn my kids from doing a trip such as this. Call me over protective but there are many better places in the world I would want my kids to see and enjoy, freely.

You do something stupid, you die. Why should this guy be part of any negotiations? He shouldn't even be mentioned. His parents have a lot of gall trying to ingratiate themselves and him into international politics.

Would you want tell a bunch of soldiers risking their lives to go in and break this kid out that they are doing this because he did something stupid that came with unfortunate consequences due to laws that were in place? Or, would they be better off risking their lives for someone who was held captive against their will, through no fault of their own?

If the kid is American, travelling to a particularly hostile country, he should have been on his best behavior. If that was his best, then I do not have the sympathy you seem to hold.

originally posted by: av8r007
a reply to: Vasa Croe

# that, he's an American, we used to fly god damn commando missions to break free our citizens held abroad. Grenada being a great example. Let's get him out of there, now, not tomorrow, now! If he didn't commit a real crime, such as murder, robbery, and something else that is heinous our government should be doing EVERYTHING to get him back to the United States. Stealth prison break, send in the Navy Seals, who cares, let's get our countryman back home!

When in Rome.....
Don't like it, don't go.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

John Kerry and the Obama administration basically told the family to keep their mouths shut and to not make a media circus out of this.

Their reasoning was, it will impede any negotiations made by the Obama administration. But we all know that never happened.

That kid's pretty dumb for stealing a sign in his hotel in Pyongyang, but he's American nonetheless so we have to bring him home.

originally posted by: evc1shop
Would you want tell a bunch of soldiers risking their lives to go in and break this kid out that they are doing this because he did something stupid that came with unfortunate consequences due to laws that were in place? Or, would they be better off risking their lives for someone who was held captive against their will, through no fault of their own?

If the kid is American, travelling to a particularly hostile country, he should have been on his best behavior. If that was his best, then I do not have the sympathy you seem to hold.

originally posted by: av8r007
a reply to: Vasa Croe

# that, he's an American, we used to fly god damn commando missions to break free our citizens held abroad. Grenada being a great example. Let's get him out of there, now, not tomorrow, now! If he didn't commit a real crime, such as murder, robbery, and something else that is heinous our government should be doing EVERYTHING to get him back to the United States. Stealth prison break, send in the Navy Seals, who cares, let's get our countryman back home!

I feel the same. I can't imagine getting the order to risk a team's life to save someone as stupid as this. If it does happen, he and his family should be responsible for the costs.

And as soon he's out of NK he's going to Tehran and pee in a mosque....

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Part of having a state department is so that we can bring back citizens of our countries and punish them under our own rules (if at all). He should absolutely be included in the negotiations.

That said, getting him back weakens our negotiating position... it's still the right thing to do however.

And yes, the kid did something stupid. Even after he was caught, he did nothing to help his own position. If I remember right, in "court" he broke down crying and in tears asked for leniency and just looked weak in general. Not something NK would respect. At every single point, this kid screwed up. He's paying that price now, but it's still the job of the US to get it's citizens back... it's not like he committed a crime that our own laws recognize.

originally posted by: crazyewok
Stupid people win stupid prizes and Otto won

If you like it so much, why don't you move there.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Harsh punishment yes. Stupid move yes.
I say leave him. Nobody else should have to possibly die and no money should be spent.
Come on man you don't go to north Korea without knowing exactly what the consequences are for doing stupid # and he did it.
He know the possible consequences and he did it anyway.
Sucks for him but he #ed around on north Korea. Pretty stupid.

15 years @ hard labor will keep his stoopid out of the gene pool.

Good riddance. LOL

a reply to: TinySickTears

So you think governments should abandon their citizens?

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: TinySickTears

So you think governments should abandon their citizens?

i didnt say that and i dont see it that way

when youre stomping around in other countries yards you have to roll how they do.
there is no way this dude did not know the risk he was taking. he took it and got popped.

the US not intervening and trying to negotiate does not mean they are abandoning him

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: TinySickTears

So you think governments should abandon their citizens?

Why are those citizens the USA responsibility when they are on another nations SOVEREIGN turf?

Travel to other countrys is not a right its a privilege. Of you dont wont the host countrys laws DONT #ING GO THERE.

I just hope Otto actually reads the RED LETTERS in the landing card when he goes next to Singapore, specifically the ones that say: "Warning Death for Drug Traffickers under Singapore Law"

Great opertunity for him to learn to read and maybe write Korean.

I'm torn. Half of me says get him, he is one of ours, bring him home. Another part of me says, well you played a bad hand and you lost, that's a personal problem not our countries problem.

I don't know. I know if it was my kid, even if he were to be a complete dipstick and do something like this, I'd be demanding the same. You have to, you're the parents.

-Alee