A Reason for Faith in Jesus Christ

The reason is love itself.



We must understand this while learning to laugh at ourselves, even if the price is a few tears of regret. It's worth it. It's worth the heartache to get to the greater joy, a joy that by it's very nature has no limits in time or space or it would eventually lose it's charm and thus would fall short of joy to begin with.

It's the buried treasure, the lost son, the lost sheep the precious pearl for which you would trade in all your attachments and everything you have, to have it, and once had, it can't be taken away because it lives in the heart and in the soul were neither woodworm can corrupt or thief break in and steal. This is at about the point where our mirth might become a Santa Clause belly laugh, oh ho ho HO!

Then we really KNOW.

God is with us when we make the approach, but first we must receive his own, even in spite of ourselves or our best guesstimates and prior assumptions which can only stand in the way of the realization of truth, but if we're set free for HIS sake or for the sake of what is right, true and just, then we are truly free indeed! Untouchable. Fearless.

He knew that we would come to know this truth, but probably not that it would take so long to be understood and accepted as a valid frame of reference (intimately beloved of God).

A Reason for Faith in Jesus Christoriginally posted by: AnkhMorpork
A Reason for Faith in Jesus Christ
The reason is love itself.
That is a poor statement.
It is like saying that the 'reason' for wetness is water.
Water is wetness is water.
Or the 'reason' for darkness is Light.
One and the same.
Faith (unconditional) = unconditional Love = 'Christ' = unconditional = NO reason and ALL reasons ('conditions')!

We must understand this while learning to laugh at ourselves

And now we descend into the mundanity of the simple psychology of the human maturation process.
Not relevant to a 'spiritual' discussion.

It's the buried treasure, the lost son, the lost sheep the precious pearl for which you would trade in all your attachments and everything you have, to have it, and once had, it can't be taken away because it lives in the heart and in the soul were neither woodworm can corrupt or thief break in and steal. This is at about the point where our mirth might become a Santa Clause belly laugh, oh ho ho HO!

Poetry is often descended to by those attempting tyo describe a place never actually experienced.
Sometimes.
Often.
I have experienced the 'conditional' laugh you allude to. It still exists on the illusory train of the ego, conditional thought.

Unconditional Love/Enlightenment transcends that egoic/thought world of limitations and 'life' and 'death' and 'time' and 'space'...
It is a Universalizing of the 'local'.

Then we really KNOW.

Yes Knowledge = experience!
Only then, we Know!

God is with us when we make the approach, but first we must receive his own, even in spite of ourselves or our best guesstimates and prior assumptions which can only stand in the way of the realization of truth, but if we're set free for HIS sake or for the sake of what is right, true and just, then we are truly free indeed! Untouchable. Fearless.

I have no respect for religion, or the 'belief infections' that sustain them.
All I know, is that if there is any 'divisive scripture', whatsoever, it is a false teaching.
I don't need to know any of the particulars.
As soon as there is a 'do this' and don't do 'that', I know it is vanity.
There are no rules for God.

He knew that we would come to know this truth, but probably not that it would take ...

Wait a moment, Buckaroo, you mean that you do not accept the definition of God as being Omni-? One?
Not all Knowing? Not all present?
Kinda like Uncle Charles?
Huh?

What We Know, God Knows, what and when We Know it, BECAUSE We Know it!
Here! Now!

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork

originally posted by: namelesss

Kids often giggle while peeing on you, like idiot baboons.
(My apologies if I offended any of my intellectually challenged baboon friends out there!)
I'm unimpressed that these lap monkeys giggle.
All monkeys do.

You missed the heart of what I was referring to, which was the idea of one's own lost inner child recovered in the light of awareness and understanding, combined with a certain humor and mirthfulness at the prospect of having been blind.

"You must become like little children to enter in. To such as these belongs the kingdom of God."

I wasn't referring to a baby and for the record the human being isn't a baboon or a monkey.

Okay, one would think that by 50 one would know what a metaphor is, for example, or other figures of speech.
So, just so we are on the same page;

met·a·phor
ˈmedəˌfôr,ˈmedəˌfər/
noun
a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable.
"“I had fallen through a trapdoor of depression,” said Mark, who was fond of theatrical metaphors"
synonyms: figure of speech, image, trope, analogy, comparison, symbol, word painting/picture
"the profusion of metaphors in her everyday speech has gotten pretty tiresome"
a thing regarded as representative or symbolic of something else, especially something abstract.
"the amounts of money being lost by the company were enough to make it a metaphor for an industry that was teetering"

Me again..
I understand your syruppy notions of 'children, which elicited my semi-tongue in cheek response.

The love of children, in their playfulness and spontaneous, unapologetic free self-expression and unbridled enthusiasm, their innocence and the wonderment and awe with which they approach the world and people - or the lack thereof, is a telltale sign I think of one's true condition.

That is true!
It is also true that;
The hatred of children, in their playfulness and spontaneous, unapologetic free self-expression and unbridled enthusiasm, their innocence and the wonderment and awe with which they approach the world and people - or the lack thereof, is a telltale sign I think of one's true condition.
There is not anything BUT 'one's true condition', manifested at every moment of being.

I'm 50 years old, myself, and when I look at them they light up and appear to see in my smiling face a larger and older version of themselves.

Seriously gramps? Sure that you aren't the 'bringer of candy' (or fill in the blank with whatever)?
I Know that the babies haven't the cognitive wherewithal to imagine a future or a past.
Do you know the quality in children to which those relevant scriptures apply?
Do you know that it doesn't have anything to do with those belly motorboats and giggles?

I wasn't always like this though. Used to be self-absorbed, narrow-minded, always right, judging etc, and I was as apt to appear scary to a child as I would a source of happiness and glee.

What do you think of the quote;
"The closer that you become to becoming the saint, the more demons that are called up to keep the balance!"?
There are also naive babes who gleefully toddle off with warm fuzzy old folks... to their torturous deaths.
Perhaps that would be an example of 'Faith' rather than naivete', or is there a difference?

I think one of the qualities that Jesus was referring to that allows a person to enter in (to the domain of eternal life) is precisely the lack of intellectualism and spontaneity that people develop in adulthood.

It is becoming unconditional Love that is Heaven/Nirvana, 'timeless', unlimited...
Thought is ego is vanity, if 'believed' is Pride (insanity, Hell).

I know what it means to become like a little child, and there's nothing wrong with housing a childlike giggle deep within.

As per my tongue-in-cheek comment, no I really do not see that you do get it.
There are no sentimental giggles involved in becoming Christ Conscious.
The 'childlike state' is pre (or post) 'belief infection', pre (or post) 'thought/ego'.
There is not anything 'sentimental' about it.
It is a Painful place;

"Only a Breaking Heart can Love!" - Zen Kahuna

You said that there is nothing wrong with the 'child' within.
More than that, I say that accepting/Loving all that is 'within' (from mewling infant to high schooler to electrician, to murderer, to healer to dead wet husk dissolving into the Earth...), is the path into Light!
"Demons are just unLoved angels!" *__-

originally posted by: Seede

a reply to: namelesss

Jesus said "As I Am, so can you be!"

Can't find that one. Please give me Ch and Verse =================

As it has been decades since I have read the book for the umpteenth time, I would have to run a search.
How honest was your search?
I Know what the book says. Perhaps there is a word off, but the meaning remains.
The Christ/unconditional Love makes us all One!
He says it often, in many different ways.
Have you not read the book? It's the main topic, unconditional Love.
God is One! Omni-!
That means that there is nothing 'else'.
That means that Reality/Truth/Self, the Universe... is God.
One.
As We Are, so can you Be!
Naturally!

"What a man loves, he is. If he loves a stone he is that stone, if he loves a person he is that person, if he loves God - nay, I durst not say more; were I to say, he is God, he might stone me. I do but teach you the scriptures." - Meister Eckhart

God is a Supreme Being and Person "who's thoughts are as high above ours as the stars are above the Earth".

As I mentioned before, it's an I-Thou relationship between lover and beloved other and the Bible is the story of a divine romance whereby Jesus is Himself the bridegroom.

There's no need to rebel against such a relationship.

@ nameless, I'm not sure you're aware of your motivations in this thread or what drives you to put up an argument and a fight against it. And if you did, I think that you would laugh, and maybe even giggle like a silly child at your own absurdity and ignorance and claim to superior knowledge and understanding.

There's no need to get angry or upset. Jesus loves you. God loves you.

But if God is love, then you're not God, and hey aren't we're all in need from a love that never fails and a light that never goes out?

Beloved of God for the reason of love, this is the message of Jesus Christ, but he extends it and telegraphs it in the form of this Great Work, which while immovable is nevertheless moving, and compelling.

It's ludicrous to try to put an argument against it once the invitation has been presented and extended as a loving gesture of good-will from on high.

And there's no use trying to raise up a single demon to oppose it's goodness and righteousness. That makes no sense.

It's an image and a model of authentic leadership that leads straight to God and to God-realization, but in koinonia with Him.

It is a marvel and a wonder, and a participatory eschatology into which we are being invited and welcomed even in spite of our ourselves and all our prior ignorance and absurdity and nonsense.

It cuts to the heart, where it may be said that the best defence was/is a really good offense.


Best regards, don't shoot the messenger..

Ankh

His mother didn't call him Iēsous, neither did the Creator. Nor his friends and companions.

No, only the Romans mock him.

a reply to: BigBangWasAnEcho

Yehesua I think knows who we mean when we refer to Him as Jesus.

There's no need to grind any axes in relation to him since His is the one axe that cuts to the root.

He stands or stood on the threshing floor with a winnowing fan in his hand.

His was the very razor's edge of reason and logic that slices away the untrue and the unreal if we might only summon the willingness and the courage to pick up our cross and follow him.

It's not unreasonable, however audacious.

And the ordeal, although hopefully not as bad, doesn't have the last word.

We must remember that, that the cross was not the end of Him.

This, the resurrection life, is the true message of Christianity. It is the triumphant celebration of a victory, for all the right reasons.

It is the stone rolling away from the tomb to let in the light of a new day.

And when it comes it's always as a pleasant surprise, unexpected, but let it not go unappreciated just because it was once in our own blind spot.

Jesus, oh Jesus help us to see the truth of the light of life and become the light of the world just like you said.

Let us come to know the truth that sets us free.

originally posted by: NightFlight
If you really believe the bible, read Deuteronomy 5: 7-11; and I'm paraphrasing, do not place ANYTHING before God. Not in heaven or on earth or below the earth, cause if you do, you and at least five to six of your future generations will be cursed for blasphemy. If you believe you have to first believe in christ to get to heaven as it is written in the new testament, well, it ain't gonna happen.

Sorry...

Just listen I can't make it any easier than that.

I have become convinced that the supreme challenge posed by Christianity involves first the ability to receive a gift of incalculable value for which there is nothing we can do to either earn or deserve, and then, with the gift in hand, to have the courage, to be truly happy.

It is the great work of all ages, and we are each given a part in it even if we ourselves didn't do the heavy lifting.

How can this not raise in us a certain joy, a certain humor and mirth and charm and the freedom to freely love as we are loved, including the love of our own self, without which we lack the surplus from which to give it in kind?

How can it not bring us and lead us, automatically, into repentance and a change of mind and heart?

How can we not be moved by the unmoved mover when he makes all the right moves?

Who among us would reject this love and slap away the hand of friendship and that's capable of wiping away the tears from our eyes and restoring our joy, our love, our humor and our freedom and consoling us in our sorrows and our heartache and our loss, including our own death, and resurrection - best get it over and done with while still alive and still on the way..

We were absurd. But that's ok, when there's a remedy for everything that ails us, spiritually, and psychologically.

We need not lose faith, or our own sense of humor, there is a standard and a doorway framed by justice and mercy within which stands a gentle and loving friend, never an oppressor.

It is therefore non-coercive and an open invitation that's freely available to all who thirst.

How delightful.

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork

.. to have the courage, to be truly happy.

This of course doesn't imply that we are to be always and forever happy only, walking around with a perma-smile, that's not realistic in the domain of human affairs

but that our joy in the Lord, in sitting upon his rock of reason and logic and truth and knowledge, and in completing his circle of joy, we possess a certain underlying happiness that's able to contain and transcend all our sorrows and all our fears and anxieties and independent of mere circumstance where everything comes and goes.

It's a joy relative to which inconsolable sorrow comes to an end and is not the last word not even in death. This is the Good News of the Gospel of Jesus Christ!

Siddhartha Gautama Buddha (God bless his eternal soul) said, after sitting under a tree for 17 years.., that the first of the four "noble" truths is that "life is suffering (or sorrowful)" and this is true, but Jesus took it one step further and all the way home by taking it upon himself like a one-time Bodhisattva, yet without ever losing for a moment one's own essential, true self, one's passionate desire (there is always an attachment to an outcome), one's character and charm, and good-willed, good-natured humor and love, even in the face of great adversity.

If we but come to our senses (even if only for lack of nourishment and sustenance) and begin the return journey home, we are met and enveloped in a hug before we're even half way there.

It's a surprise, and it's meant to take our breath away at it's implications ie: that all the heavy lifting has been done, making our own burden light and much easier to accept and to carry, willingly, which is the way of the cross.

The joy of the impending resurrection is embedded within the willingness to accept the necessity of a meaningful suffering, but it's not the end, only the beginning of all things new.

"Behold woman (look mom) I make all things new." (said to Mary while carrying the cross).

There's no use pretending not to understand it, because the church might have misrepresented it in the form of a doctrine that you simply must accept when the invitation and the meaning and significance implicit in the invitation and the gesture is so compelling and so heart-warming and heart-wrenching, that it's much better when it's extended as a free invitation, however "heavy handed" it might appear even to the very part of us with which it hopes to contend and must contend to have efficacy and relevancy.

There was no other way and there is no other way (although there was/is path leading from the Garden of Gethsemane straight into the desert).

We can shy away from it all we like because of a lack of courage or a lack of willingness or open-mindedness, but there's no mistaking the message or the intent and what it was meant to convey about the very meaning and purpose of life in pursuit of the truth, even the truth that sets us free.

And if your desire is to somehow "get even" rest-assured that the hoodwink and double-bind placed upon the evil and the wicked must have been hard to endure but even they (those who participated), when brought to repentance were also invited into the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ (Yeheshua Messiah). Oh the irony and the genius, to make a place even for his enemies by winning their repentance and salvation (is that not humorous and mirthful or what?).

We all have an ordeal of some sort to endure, and against our personal house the rains will come and the winds will blow, even if only to see what it's really founded on.

His word is the logos, who's very root is logic.

It's reliable.

Worthy is the heart and mind of the lamb of God, of our re-consideration and contemplation and re-cognition, and understanding, while at the same time remaining incomprehensible to the ignorant and the foolish, even the so-called "wise" and "knowledgeable" and that's very funny too.

It's ok to get punk'd by God. It had to be done and done right, without compromise, to protect and preserve and to hold in reserve for those who really love, everything that's worthwhile.


Be blessed,

Ankh

This is an interesting argument I've managed to put forward or allow my fingers to type away and believe you me, if I'm being the least bit "preachy" that I'm also preaching as much to myself as to you or anyone else in particular. I'm no saint.

"Every sinner has a future, and every saint, a past."

It's an argument seemingly founded on both reason and logic and the knowledge of felt experience within the context of spiritual and psychological growth and well being, where it cuts to the heart of things and to a first cause in the human domain and in matters of human affairs.

It's a model of authentic Civilized leadership, to be and become more like Jesus, and there's certainly no amount of Jesus that could be capable of ruining a personality. lol

So I say that we have some work of forgiveness to do, beginning with our own selves and then in the context of our neighbor, as being no less important than to love God with all our mind, heart, soul and strength.

Do we show mercy, or would we go out and throttle those who are indebted to us immediately after having been ourselves forgiven our debt.

Think of how humorous this is..

For me it raises both a tear and a smile at the same time.. ;' )

..and then the laughter begins. It is the humor of the knowledge of true understanding in the domain of felt experience, or truth.

"I am the way, the truth and the life!"

He wasn't kidding.

The authenticity and humility of the statement, where it may be said that true humility is to know yourself as you truly are, is breathtaking in it's implications when we come to KNOW that we somehow, have a part in it, and a place, whether first or last it doesn't really matter, because even the smallest taste of what is being offered is received or fully "grokked", it carries with it, implicitly, a portion of the whole and who knows what the implications of that might be - and that's the domain we are being freely invited into, as a domain of mutual exploration and the possibility of an enjoyment shared even if only by our mutual presence and good company and in the fellowship of the Lord because where two or more are gathered together in His name, there He is among them.

I am here to invite you into the sheer magnitude of the joy and even the hilarity of it, of the new POV, which is actually the very basis and rock, and the first cause and the starting point in our relationship, to ourselves, to one another and to God, upon whom we must rely for access to the truth because God is also truth, and life itself (Jesus).

It's the joy of a homecoming and even a wedding celebration and for better or worse, we are the bride.

The joke's on us.

I am a bride of Christ, for better and sometimes worse but it always gets better and better the more I/we come to lean on and trust in the Lord who is also God since God is a person and not a thing.

He can only be freely apportioned out, like food; it's the word, or the logos, as a type of spiritual food, for our enjoyment.


An old Christian friend of mine, Bridget, she was a convert, and this was before I came to first believe/understand, but pretended to anyway, she used to like to say to me "enjoy the Lord!" and to be honest, that would frustrate me to no end, thinking about that - what does she mean?! "enjoy the Lord"? Bah!

To me this was preposterous, because one is only supposed to believe in or on the Lord. How can I enjoy the Lord?

Now I KNOW, and it's humorous and delightful, and it has a foundation and ever a cornerstone or a keystone already laid in place, by anticipation, knowing full well in advance what we might become without it, like a seed or a time capsule intended for now according to He who was, who is and who is to come.

We are in dire need of a divine intervention, I'm sure there's no one who would disagree with that, but what does it look like, and "taste" like?

There is no knowledge absent the knowledge of personal experience, which need not leave it's reason behind on entering into the doorway of truth.

God it's so funny!

Thank you, so much.

And how could we pay for something of incalculable value anyway?

Thank you Jesus, thank you Father God. You guys rock! I like what you've done for us, for me. Without you I would be lost, but with you I am found again, I was once dead, but in you came back to life, again and again.

God you are just totally awesome and unbelievably humorous and your argument Lord is without parallel. It was you, and you did it. Thank you Jesus (Yeheshua).

But it can't be forced, this kind of thing or coerced at the point of a sword. No.

Someone must make a compelling argument for falling in love with Jesus Christ.

And that someone was me, and you read it first right here at ATS! lol

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork

Someone must make a compelling argument for falling in love with Jesus Christ.

In the final analysis, it's the only rational and reasonable position to take, and that's funny too.

It would seem to me that all we have to do, is to have the courage to say YES, in response to the love of God in Jesus Christ.

It's not really a matter of simply trying to summon up enough faith or belief to "qualify".

It can be tested and evaluated even within the domain of personal experience where we all have a unique personal spiritual experience. And it would be boring if we were all the same.

That's another interesting aspect to the nature of the invitation and proposition, and the reason many work very heard to supress it, or deny it, is that it's so personal, and yet so utterly unique to each person's own unique "qualia" of internal conscious and unconscious, experience.

Are we big enough to admit that the joke was/is on us and who we took ourselves and others to be according to a valuation that might have been the lowest common denominator, when the truth is that our value, and that of our fellow man, according to the Christ principal, is of incalculable value as sons and daughters of a loving God, where even our own parents aren't about to hand us a stone when we ask for bread or a scorpion for eggs, so how much more would God give to those who ask? We of course, in our ignorance ask for more "stuff" when the things that God holds in store for those who really love, are all invisible and in the domain of innerspace or of personal self-knowledge; as an involution at the culmination of a long evolutionary process.

Tell me when you look within in this way that you don't encounter a deep sense of mirthful irony at your own prior blindness to the truth of God's love.

It's very funny. God is very funny, imho.

If I've managed to make the God in you or the part of you that is God laugh, and for all the right reasons, ho ho ho (who said there's no such thing as Santa Clause?) and in sympathy with Jesus both in the plight of the impending ordeal AND in triumph of the love transcendent - then this thread has served it's purpose.

And if the spirit has been raised in you or if you've been in some way touched, I ask you to do only one thing - try re-reading the gospels and ruminating on Jesus' intent and his logic and reasoning and rationale. Yes, his sayings are often apparently cryptic and his disciples didn't even know what the heck he was talking about half the time, and his parables of an allegorical nature, but his way of thinking and of teaching and acting, it carries with it a level of genius that is right out of this world and He did it all by being a nothing of himself, and a loving servant and even a friend to all.

You will encounter Him in his mirth and charm, and then you will also come to know that the very best part of yourself is intermingled with His love, which is also the love of God.

Provided we then forgive as we are forgiven, and voila, our humor is restored, along with our capacity to really love, and really live, even to the full AND to overflowing! ; )

The only real problem with Christianity, is that it's just too much to take! It's the one thing that's too good to be true, but is and that's utterly irresistible in it's invitation and proposition, once understood.

What a terrible and wonderful predicament! And this is precisely the way that Jesus designed and intended it, or discerned as to the will of God and carried it out, flawlessly and to a t (literally).

We needed Jesus to carry that burden.

If it was on me, I would have blown the assignment and ran from the Garden of Gethsemane along that path straight into the desert.

The reason, was love itself.

"Vain are the beliefs and teachings that make man miserable, and false is the goodness that leads him into sorrow and despair, for it is man's purpose to be happy on this earth and lead the way to felicity and preach its gospel wherever he goes. He who does not see the kingdom of heaven in this life will never see it in the coming life. We came not into this life by exile, but we came as innocent creatures of God, to learn how to worship the holy and eternal spirit and seek the hidden secrets within ourselves from the beauty of life.

This is the truth which I have learned from the teachings of the Nazarene."

~ Khalil Gibran, Spirits Rebellious (1908) "Khalil The Heretic" Part 3

en.wikiquote.org...

“When love beckons to you follow him, Though his ways are hard and steep. And when his wings enfold you yield to him, Though the sword hidden among his pinions may wound you. And when he speaks to you believe in him, Though his voice may shatter your dreams as the north wind lays waste the garden. For even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you. Even as he is for your growth so is he for your pruning. Even as he ascends to your height and caresses your tenderest branches that quiver in the sun, So shall he descend to your roots and shake them in their clinging to the earth......

But if in your fear you would seek only love's peace and love's pleasure, Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness and pass out of love's threshing-floor, Into the seasonless world where you shall laugh, but not all of your laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears. Love gives naught but itself and takes naught but from itself.

Love possesses not nor would it be possessed; For love is sufficient unto love. And think not you can direct the course of love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. Love has no other desire but to fulfil itself."

But if you love and must needs have desires, let these be your desires: To melt and be like a running brook that sings its melody to the night. To know the pain of too much tenderness. To be wounded by your own understanding of love; And to bleed willingly and joyfully.”
~ Khalil Gibran, "The Prophet"

“When you are sorrowful look again in your heart, and you shall see that in truth you are weeping for that which has been your delight.”
― Kahlil Gibran


He get's it, he got it. He understood. Many are called, few are chosen and even fewer understand and comprehend.

If you are among them and you get it too and have the mirth and joy that it gives, count yourself a very lucky person.

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
God is a Supreme Being and Person "who's thoughts are as high above ours as the stars are above the Earth".

As I mentioned before, it's an I-Thou relationship between lover and beloved other and the Bible is the story of a divine romance whereby Jesus is Himself the bridegroom.

If you love Jesus does that make you Gay since Jesus was a man?

I think God is woman anyway. There's no way a man could create something so beautiful as a woman.