It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
And Im not right wing or Republican. In fact, I cant stand them. And I blame left wing nuts like you for their rise to power. If the left had not gone so far out of the real world and alienated so many, the right would not have gained the power they have, and we might actually have been spared another 4 years of Bush. But the incompetance of the left has fueled the fires and handed victory to the right.
Originally posted by cantfoolme
jsobecky
nothing involving race has affected me in any way. if tookie were white i would still have the same take on this.
the only reason that i even mentioned race in any of my posts is because the effect tookie may have on a certain group of people. that group of people is black youth. as a white person i hate that history has to have an affect on today. what white people did in the past caused many black people today to be racist. i haven't a racist bone in my body but a black persons first impression of me has my pale skin factored into it.
i find it extremely unfortunate that you have to make this a race issue.
That's the thing though, it doesn't have to make sense. It just has to appease the bloodlust of white taxpayers. Them's the breaks I guess, when living in Amerikkka.
If Tookie was an industrialist responsible for a million birth defects, and hundreds of deaths, due to rampant criminal negligence and blatant disregard for public safety, he'd get a fine (if that!). Because he's a black man, and more importantly not a wealthy man, his crime is blown out of proportion and his punishment is severe.
wow fancy that, killing a nobel prize nominee ... gotta hand it to America's legal system
He thought that his race and his reputation would get him off the hook. I can see where it has already affected members of this forum. If Williams were white, would you be so quick to believe him?
Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
And I blame left wing nuts like you for their rise to power.
Originally posted by Odium
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf, why were the crips founded?
Where did these gangs come from?
Connect all the dots and before you run your mouth, I lived in a 'hood' as you like to call them. In a very poor area, where nearly everyone I grew up with is in prison or has been so I know what these areas are like.
So please, why were the crips founded?
Originally posted by DiabolusFireDragon
The crips were formed to combat the bloods. A vigilante group that got just as bad as who it was supposed to be fighting.
Originally posted by Odium
Originally posted by DiabolusFireDragon
The crips were formed to combat the bloods. A vigilante group that got just as bad as who it was supposed to be fighting.
Actually, that's wrong.
Where did you get that idea from?
The Crips were formed in 1969.
The Bloods were formed in 1973.
Anyone else like to take a stab at this or would you like me to answer?
Williams' supporters ran-ge from the holy (Archbishop Desmond Tutu) to the street-wise (rapper Snoop Dogg, himself once a Crip).
Don't kill Tookie - celebs plea
Schwarzenegger is likely to hold a rare private meeting next month with the lawyers for the condemned killer and prosecutors to consider the gang founder's plea for clemency.
William's appeal comes down to whether his good deeds, commendations, including one from President Bush, and other world figures, convince Schwarzenegger that he deserves to live.
That's a contradiction, and as such is a fundamentally flawed viewpoint, and it's the basis for many, if not most, of the overarching flaws in leftist ideology.
We are all responsible for ourselves, and nobody else is responsible for us. Williams made a conscious decision to pursue a life of violence, and he and he alone is responsible for that decision.
The fact that he now claims to repent that decision does not in any way alter the fact that it was made and that it had specific negative consequences. The results of his choice are his responsibility and his alone.
Its quite obvious you have never lived in the hood. Or seen the violence and problems created by gangs.
I dont have a bias, like you do.
In the REAL world, the gang warfare between Crips and Bloods has killed FAR many more young black men and other innocent victims than any lynching crusade from the KKK.
Thousands of young black kids have died in the pointless gang warfare committed by rival gangs.
The Crips and Bloods and other gang scum have created a culture of murder and hatred amongst the blacks.
I dont see these gangs going after and killing bad cops.
But thank you for your blather. You have proved my point why the loony left has lost so much respect in this country.
Your support of anti-social behavior and murderers is why the religous right is gaining so much influence.
And I blame left wing nuts like you for their rise to power. If the left had not gone so far out of the real world and alienated so many, the right would not have gained the power they have, and we might actually have been spared another 4 years of Bush. But the incompetance of the left has fueled the fires and handed victory to the right.
Yes, he should pay for his crimes. But why can't he be allowed to pay for them in a way that benefits society, instead of sullying our collective hands with yet another taxoayer subsidized murder?
Does the law, or does it not, state that his crimes are capital? Was he, or was he not, found guilty of those crimes? Was he, or was he not, sentenced to death?
I oppose the death penalty-- in ALL cases.
If your only intention is to somehow demonstrate that, while that person might legitimately be executed, this person, regardless of his conviction and regardless of his guilt should NOT be executed, then you are simply advocating the same inconsistency in application that is one of the chief evils of the death penalty.
If the law exists, it should apply to all equally. If it's unjust, it should not exist. But applying it only to some and not to others is an affront to liberty, society and the rule of law.
The attack on black political leadership in Los Angeles, and the power vacuum that remained, created a large void for young black youths in the late 1960s that coincided with the resurgence of black gangs. A generation of black teens in Los Angeles saw their role models and leadership decimated in the late 1960s. Raymond Washington, a 15-year-old student at Fremont High School, started the first new street gang in 1969, shortly after much of the Panther power base was eliminated and as other social and political groups became ineffective in Los Angeles. Washington, who was too young to participate in the Panther movement during the 1960s, absorbed much of the Panther rhetoric of community control of neighborhoods (Baker 1988:28) and fashioned his quasi-political organization after the Panther’s militant style, sporting the popular black leather jackets of the time. Washington got together a few other friends and started the first new black gang in Los Angeles on 78th Street near Fremont High School called the Baby Avenues.
In addition to emulating the Panther appearance, Washington also admired an older gang that remained active throughout the 1960s called the Avenues. He decided to name his new quasi-political organization the Baby Avenues, to represent a new generation of black youths. They were also known as the Avenue Cribs, and after a short time they were referred to as the Cribs, which was a comment on their youthfulness. Their initial intent was to continue the revolutionary ideology of the 1960s and to act as community leaders and protectors of their local neighborhoods, but the revolutionary rhetoric did not endure. Because of immaturity and a lack of political leadership, Raymond Washington and his group were never able to develop an efficient political agenda for social change within the community.
The Cribs were successful in developing a style of dress and a recognizable appearance. In addition to their black leather jackets, they would often walk with canes, and wear an earring in their left ear lobe. Some were also avid weightlifters. The Cribs began to venture into their own criminal behavior, committing robberies and assaults. In 1971, several Crib members that were assaulting a group of elderly Japanese women were described by the victims as young cripples that carried canes. These young cripples were the Cribs, but the local media picked up on this description, and referred to this group as the Crips (Los Angeles Sentinel, 2/10/72). The print media first introduced the term Crip, and those that were involved in a life of crime were considered to be Crippin’ by other Crib members who were still trying to be revolutionary, with the same political thinking of the 1960s. According to ______________ Danifu, an original Crib member, the Cribs was the original name of the Crips, but the term Crips was substituted by the use of the word Cribs through a newspaper article that highlighted specific individuals who were arrested for a murder.[8] Because some of the early Cribs carried canes, the entire notion of Crip as an abbreviated pronunciation from crippled caught on. Jerry Cohen wrote that Crip members wore earrings in their left lobe, in addition to carrying canes, but the walking sticks were not the source of the gang’s name that many believed (1972: C3). Danifu continued to add that Crippin’ was a separate thing from being a Crib… “Crippin’ meant robbing, and stealing, and then it developed into a way of life.”[9]
As mentioned earlier, these youths tried to emulate the fashion of the Panthers by developing a style of dress that included black leather jackets. Those youths who had the crippin’ mentality, became excessively concerned with imitating the Panther appearance. By 1972, most Cribs had been completely transformed into the Crippin’ way of life, which often led into criminal activities. For example, the acquisition of leather jackets by unemployed black youths was accomplished by committing robbery and strong-arming vulnerable youths for their jackets. Jerry Cohen (1972) described the early Crips as:
a group of juveniles that committed extortion of merchandise, mugging the elderly, and ripping off weaker youths, particularly for leather jackets that have become a symbol of Crip identity. (p C3)
Ironically, three days after this article was published, the desire for leather jackets led to perhaps the first Crip murder, when a sixteen-year old son of an attorney was beaten to death over a leather coat. The victim, who was not a gang member, was a West side resident who attended Los Angeles High School and played cornerback for the football team. According to the Los Angeles Police Department, the group that assaulted him fled the scene with five leather jackets, two wallets, the victim and his friends. A few days later, nine youths, including members of the infamous Crip gang, were arrested for the murder. The previous month there was a similar incident where 20 black youths had attacked and beaten a 53- year-old white man to death on Figueroa and 109th Street in South Los Angeles. It was believed that the Crips were responsible for this killing, but no arrests were ever made (Los Angeles Sentinel 2/10/72).
The sensational media coverage of the event at the Hollywood Palladium, plus continued assaults by the Crips, attracted other youths to join the Crips. For youths that have been marginalized along several fronts, such gangs represented manliness to self and others (Vigil & Yun 1990:64). Many youths joined the Crips, but others decided to form their own gangs. The increased attention the early Crips received by the police and from the community, because of the violence they were involved in, actually attracted more youths to join these early gangs. The violence was said to have been committed to attract attention and to gain notoriety (Rosenzweig 1972). In addition, several other youths formed other non-Crip gangs, in response to continued Crip intimidation. The idea of Crippin’ had taken over the streets of south Los Angeles, and Mike Davis stated that “Cripmania” was sweeping South side schools in an epidemic of gang shootings and street fights in 1972 (1990:300). In three short years, the first Crip gang on the East side on 78th Street had spread to Inglewood, Compton, and the West side, totaling eight gangs, as ten other non-Crip gangs formed. By years end, there were 29 gang-related homicides in the city of Los Angeles, 17 in unincorporated areas of Los Angeles County, and nine in Compton (Rosenzweig 1972). Gang violence was in the early stages of what would soon become an epidemic in Los Angeles.