Songs About the Struggle: The People v. TPTB

a reply to: Edumakated
lol, you're right a great intro!!!!

"They wanted me for their army or whatevah..picture me giving a damn, I said never"

a reply to: zosimov

The important thing to remember about defending oneself or others is that the intent is only to go so far as to make the imminent threat of danger stop.

If you see someone strangling a woman and you stop them by shooting them, you will probably be exonerated. But again, what would Jesus do?

Theres that verse where he says go sell your clothes to afford a sword, you're going to need it. Then other places theres a time to kill (not murder), right?

In microcosm defending ones own self, loved ones and friends from injustice, murder even, is justified, imo.
So what do we do about a gubment that is bombing whole foreign countries to dust?

Maybe it is that simple, what matters is how we personally treat people, nothing more.
We can't stop these warmongers, or greedy bankers, they have all the money and guns on their side. So in the end, did we fight against them (becoming part of the problem ) or just refuse to play the whole game , taking neither side.

I whole heartedly agree with you examples of passive non resistance as exemplified by Ghandi, MLK, etc.

MLK used to tell people that wanted to come on his marches into the heart of racist darkness, "if you can't take a crack to the noggin with a night stick without resisting, then don't show up."

He also was present during the Million man march / demonstration at the Washington Monument, also came out against the Vietnam War for the first time there. Shortly after he was murdered...

Ghandi also resisted violence thru hunger strikes, almost killing himself to stop the violence between Indians and Muslims. They eventually killed him, too.

What brave men, what heroes, is this any different today? Yes. People are so divided, so fractured in their thinking, maybe theres no hope except on our little tiny level to behave towards others as best we know how.

J Cole on top of his game:

I guess he can't complain
All the money that be raining in
Spend a hundred thou for the chain again
Thinking old school n'****s like Dame and Dane
Probably kill for another claim to fame
My brain the same Yeah, n****,
at least he ain't insane
At least he ain't insane
You ain't crazy, m***********
You're just afraid of change
That's new, maybe that's true
But listen here I got a bigger fear
Of one day that I become you
And I become lost and I become heartless
And numb from all the Ménages
Just one b*** don't feel the same no more
And Henny don't really kill the pain no more
Now I'm Cobain with a shotgun aimed at my brain
Cause I can't maintain no more
Tad bit extreme I know
Money can't save your soul
But there go you
And there go you
And there go you Selling me dreams and telling me things you knew

originally posted by: zosimov
a reply to: Edumakated
lol, you're right a great intro!!!!

"They wanted me for their army or whatevah..picture me giving a damn, I said never"

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: zosimov

The important thing to remember about defending oneself or others is that the intent is only to go so far as to make the imminent threat of danger stop.

If you see someone strangling a woman and you stop them by shooting them, you will probably be exonerated. But again, what would Jesus do?

Theres that verse where he says go sell your clothes to afford a sword, you're going to need it. Then other places theres a time to kill (not murder), right?

In microcosm defending ones own self, loved ones and friends from injustice, murder even, is justified, imo.
So what do we do about a gubment that is bombing whole foreign countries to dust?

Maybe it is that simple, what matters is how we personally treat people, nothing more.
We can't stop these warmongers, or greedy bankers, they have all the money and guns on their side. So in the end, did we fight against them (becoming part of the problem ) or just refuse to play the whole game , taking neither side.

I whole heartedly agree with you examples of passive non resistance as exemplified by Ghandi, MLK, etc.

MLK used to tell people that wanted to come on his marches into the heart of racist darkness, "if you can't take a crack to the noggin with a night stick without resisting, then don't show up."

He also was present during the Million man march / demonstration at the Washington Monument, also came out against the Vietnam War for the first time there. Shortly after he was murdered...

Ghandi also resisted violence thru hunger strikes, almost killing himself to stop the violence between Indians and Muslims. They eventually killed him, too.

What brave men, what heroes, is this any different today? Yes. People are so divided, so fractured in their thinking, maybe theres no hope except on our little tiny level to behave towards others as best we know how.

I love this post, the message, the song, the whole thing. Thank you for taking the time for some thoughtful reflection!
I agree that killing (in order to defend the innocent) can be justified. I hope I could defend my family's life if trouble came knocking.
But mostly I love the bottom line of your post: Be good to one another.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: zosimov

But praying for peace wouldn't have defeated the likes of Hitler, now would it?

Prayer alone maybe not but add music/resonance and anything is possible; walls of Jerico and all that.

The Jam, Eton Rifles, 1979
Sticking it to the toffs.


Prince, Colonised Mind (live Amsterdam 2011)
Systemic indoctrination


Labi Saffre, Something Inside So Strong
Freedom from slavery and oppression


Bob Marley, No Woman No Cry (live Boston, 1979)
Political struggle.

a reply to: teapot

Thank you teapot for your wonderful post--a great message accompanying some great music.

I agree that we should never underestimate the resonance of creative acts of protest and radical love

(I like the aesthetics of your post as well)

a reply to: zosimov

Why thank you, what a nice thing to say. Of course we all know that happy endings only occur in Hollywood movies. Like the ending to Club Paradise... The Arabs lose interest, the dictator becomes a nice guy, the whole war breaks out in a party...
Peter O'Toole and Robin Williams have great parts in the film, but its Hollywood. There are other good films which have a positive anti war message, one is Catch 22, the other a little known gem, also starring a much younger Peter O'Toole titled, Murphy's War. Highly recommended, if you like movies, you are in for a treat...

a reply to: intrptr

You know, my dad is an eternal optimist. He is the most optimistic person I know. He's had a pretty good life, worked his tail off, but raised a family well in a nice way, just celebrated 50 years with my mom, brought himself out of poverty to live in a nice place close to his grandchildren.. athletic, healthy eater, busy at work, well liked and respected.. all the good stuff.
Then he gets hit with colon cancer. Real life isn't always as great as you'd like.
Now my dad's in chemo and his attitude is still fantastic. You can bet that his experience, and the experience of the loved ones around him is ameliorated by his great mindstate. Would he consider this a "happy" way to ring in his 75th year? Honestly, I'd have to ask him.. but having known him all my life I'd guess he'd look at his grandson, family, measure his relative health, and he would find lots to be grateful for.
I do think that our mind shapes its own outcome to a certain degree.
I've heard of happy endings outside of Hollywood but admittedly not as many as I'd like.

a reply to: intrptr

btw-- I LOVE Peter O Toole. Thank you for the recommendation!

(Have you seen The Ruling Class?)

a reply to: teapot

Fixed your links (hopefully)




Couldn't find that Prince in Amsterdam. Think I found other songs from that show, but not Colonized Minds. I'm sure that was a memorable night.

a reply to: zosimov

Yes. Ruling Class was excellent. Sorry about your dads travails. His life certainly sounds 'successful'.

My dad did the same thing. Educated, career, family equity, retirement. He is a health nut too. He is 80ish, hardly talk to him.

Balance that 'success' story with sociopathic and narcissistic tendencies, working a lifetime for Lockheed Martin on nuclear weapons. Provided us a home, vacations, Disneyland, Church, circuses and zoos. What a fantasy life we led, completely fantastical, in denial, repressive, emotionally and physically abusive. I won't go too much into my moms side of the family, except her father was a card carrying member of The Nazi Party, survived both World Wars on the German side.

Is that considered successful?

"Everyone is meant to grow up, grow old, get sick and die. Sorry about that." --Hospice nurse

a reply to: intrptr

I agree intrptr that we need to be very careful when we choose our path towards "success" or we my realize we have chosen a life devoid of meaning/vitality.
I'm sorry to hear about the false-fantasy world your parents created for your little self. We are all so broken and giving love is one of the most impossible tasks, it would seem. You have quite the interesting family tree and I am sure your family, despite all its flaws, had its role in shaping the compassionate and strong person (a bit gruff but kind) I sense from your posts.
I don't mean to boast here about my pops but he is just the most remarkable person I have met.
I know my dad was "successful" because, after 37 years with him, I cannot think of a single negative trait, a single cruel tendency, not even a single mistake my dad committed that I was privy to. I know rationally that he probably has done things that would shock me, but if there is a dark side to my father, he has kept it completely under wraps.

I wish my kids could say that about me but I'm pretty sure I've already compromised my perfect record

Nice quote from the hospice nurse. I know it's morbid.. should I be laughing?

a reply to: zosimov

You have quite the interesting family tree and I am sure your family, despite all its flaws, had its role in shaping the compassionate and strong person (a bit gruff but kind) I sense from your posts.

I struggled a lifetime to overcome the abuse, indoctrination and neglect. Still haven't, will never recover. People that were raised properly don't understand what a powerful influence not only parents, but religion, the state and entertainment industries (like TV) can have on children.

Sorry to drag your thread off topic, its supposed to be songs that struggle against the TPTB.

a reply to: intrptr

Great song. Am listening now.
Hey I don't care to assume or downplay any other person's struggle. I do think the more pain we process the more compassionate we tend to be but I don't know your experience and can only wish you find the peace you seek in your life.
Not that I have found it (at least not lasting peace).. let me know if you find the recipe, please.
Honestly, the struggle we have with our own selves, with our immediate families, with the strangers we encounter.. all these are much more relevent to our daily lives than the people v. tptb.

I am really sorry if I sounded callous or ignorant about the effect of abuse on children. You're right I just don't know what it's like.

a reply to: zosimov

Hi zosimov! Great thread, S&F!!
I've really enjoyed reading every response in here and will check out the videos later when I have more time.

I was going to add the Michael Jackson song but it's already up. Instead I'm going to post my favourite version which is a prison flash mob...it gives me chills every time I watch it.



I'm also trying to heal myself from a traumatic childhood. Music has been instrumental (lol) in getting me through some rough times.
I'm lucky to also be one of those eternal optimists, my mantra has become "It's not forever, it's just for now".
Man's inhumanity to Man is a topic worthy of discussion. I will be checking back, hope your thread stays active!
jacy

a reply to: zosimov

Hey I don't care to assume or downplay any other person's struggle.

I didn't take it that way at all. I admire you, enjoy our exchange immensely.

Each of us is a product of the crucible of life. The fire, refinement and purifying of our soul...

a reply to: jacygirl

Hi jacy!! Really great to see you in here, and your post has me in tears (don't worry that kind when you've been stunned in a good way).
That video is tremendously powerful. I had to read up on it and saw it was performed by inmates in a high security Phillipines prison.. and that just blew me away. When the inmates formed the peace sign at the end I lost it.
That video/song inspires hope in not only the inmates but also the jailers (how creative to think about and implement that program!). And all of us out here who get to remind ourselves that we should care about "them".

I look forward to more discussion when you have time jacy!

a reply to: zosimov

Oh, Most Definitely. I didn't know if I should go there but since you did...
Another opening from a great film, Do the Right Thing, fight the power...