Why do you hate the poor?

11k !

How do you pay your rent?

That's only $916 a month / $229 a week before taxes, medicare and social security.

Probably comes out to $169 a week after taxes.

What place can you rent with that? It's hard to believe..

originally posted by: nOraKat
11k !

How do you pay your rent?

That's only $916 a month / $229 a week before taxes, medicare and social security.

Probably comes out to $169 a week after taxes.

What place can you rent with that? It's hard to believe..

The area of the country matters a lot, I get by on 700/month (760 including food stamps). Rent comes to 500 and includes utilities. That leaves 260 for things like gas, car insurance, and food. I try to plan my routes so that I use one tank of gas per month, which is around $30 right now, and insurance runs me another $30. That leaves $200 to eat on, or less if putting a bit aside for savings which is doable.

It's probably the same for the other poster, except they live in a more expensive area than me.

a reply to: darkbake

I'm saying they should get a fair days pay for a fair days work, the jobs are beside the point as what you do for a living does not define the totality of who you are.

I'm suggesting that we pay our poor and people who survive on minimum wage a living wage affording them the same basic conveniences and luxury as the rest of our working class, basically allowing them to survive without having to use foodbanks and the like.

Everyone is part of society and important but there is very little equality, distribution of wealth is the problem.

Pay people enough to survive and who cares what employment they do, as long as they can feed there family's and afford the basic luxuries of life.

a reply to: darkbake

Double post my bad.

Poor is a subjective term. What is poor in the US? I know people on foodstamps with an S7 smartphone, internet and Xbox live.

No, I don't think there is so much hate, rather when fat mothers and lazy men with eighty children running around, I see a problems.

www.youtube.com...
Somebody needs to pay for these 15 kids, somebody needs to be held responsible!

Welfare is needed in our society, it helps to get people back on their feet. However, what policy exist that prevents people from getting attached to the nipple? Its really a matter of culture in that regard. A lot of stuff needs to happen to address this.

Eventually, people get fed up they just lump the entire welfare population as one. Terrible, I know.

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: wantsome

From my perspective, it's not just hate for the poor but an orchestrated hate fest directed at minorities, and anything not
Christian.

That's funny...

I see the opposite happening, particularly here in the UK.

We have a huge group of people who seem to want to mete charity out to foreigners and completely ignore, deny or fail to even acknowledge that we still have poor people here on our very own doorstep.

Seems it's more reasonable to want to help people overseas...the media have, for the last 10 or so years, been outputting propaganda - programs like "benefits britain" portraying the natives as a nation of scroungers and ponces, striking ill folk off the sick and forcing them to work with one hand while happily giving houses, travel passes, benefits etc to anyone who isn't British with the other.

But you speak out on behalf of your fellow countrymen who are homeless, begging on the streets - you're a racist and a bigot.

Some of us don't hate the poor, some of us actually speak out in their defense and are bombarded with petty nsults and vitriol for doing so. Ironically, mainly the spite comes from the left who have decided, in their infinite wisdom, that's it's ok to disregard the natives and they're less important...or they brought it on themselves, or something.

Just thought I'd add, recently my mother was told she was fit for work and struck off the sick...she suffers from arthritis and recently had a hip replacement. Contrast that with the family across the street from her, none of whom can speak any English but have several cars, I know because they continue to park in her and her neighbors space outside their house. When confronted, they pretend they don't understand or know why they're being confronted. Don't see them go out to work, much - last summer they spend most of their time in their garden running around half naked and drinking all day. Mothers' patio furniture disappeared and a few weeks later they were seen lounging around on a hot summers day with it, father wanted to start a fight but mother told him to foret it which he reluctantly did...they'd only make out they didn't understand, anyway.

These people are allegedly poor and require help by our government, yet have two cars and quite a nice house. Every day on my way to work I see natives to this country beg for change, I also see people not from this country, again - barely speak a work of English, also beg for change...so what gives?

There are two possibilities, here - either we're importing immigrants into this country and making them homeless...which begs the question what good are we actually doing for them? The alternative is the foreign beggars are not homeless at all, just stealing the change that otherwise would actually go to thems what really need it. I'm pretty sure it's the latter...but you walk 'round Glasgow city centre on any given day and you'll see the cops and hobby bobbies harass the white beggars and develop immediate and selective blindness when they see a non-white, non-English speaking beggar.

a reply to: wantsome

It is the times we are in. We are running out of money, but more war fronts and tax cuts for the rich are in the plans. The people who want more war, don't won't to raise taxes. So, someone has to be punished and a big show how they are protecting your money. They are making citizens fight over resources and we are walking around flagging ourselves.

a reply to: swimmer15

Seems like you know a lot of poor people - both in the hood and in trailer parks

Why Getting A Job Doesn't Mean Getting Out Of Poverty

Are you an expert on poverty? Do you think that everyone that gets an education gets a job? Do you think there are enough jobs available to keep people from sliding into poverty - or wages high enough to lift them out?

Bradley Ariza, a man living in the U.K. with his girlfriend and children, is stressed all the time. In addition to constant hunger and insecurity, he needs to carefully calculate every calorie he eats to make sure he has enough, and count every penny he spends to ensure that his finances remain in order. He feels the constant pressure to maintain certain livings standards for his family. Poverty becomes a “physical and psychological condition,” not just an economic one.

Studying the psychological effects of poverty is not usually met with enthusiastic approval. In the past, such research was often tainted with racism. It was also accused as being a way of blaming the poor for their behavior. Sometimes it has been seen as unnecessary because of the belief that although the poor are more deprived, they are happier. However, scholarly and public opinions are becoming increasingly more open to studying the effects of poverty on psychology and behavior. It is slowly beginning to be seen as a way to tackle poverty.

Studies have already shown that poorer people have elevated levels of stress, and it is also widely known that stress is linked to depression. Depression, which causes absenteeism and lower levels of productivity, costs the U.S. and U.K. up to one percent of their GDP each year. People who are suffering from extreme stress and depression are less likely to make long-term investments in their health and education. They are more inclined to seek short-term rewards rather than long-term ones because they find it harder to delay gratification. These psychological effects of living in poverty make it more difficult for people to climb out of it.

Researchers are now exploring whether lowering stress and depression can improve people’s mental states enough so that they make better financial decisions and are more motivated about their future. When they are offered more psychological-centered treatments, such as therapy or counseling, people might be more likely to build a path out of the poverty trap. Studying this connection could also help explain why aid sometimes does not seem to work as it should. Microloans, for instance, might be financially helpful, but the added stress to repay loans might make poorer people’s lives worse.

Direct aid, instead of microloans, might be more beneficial. Johannes Haushofer, founder of the Busara Center for Behavioral Economics, has started studying how stress affects one’s ability to make good financial decisions. He found that giving unconditional cash transfers to families lowered their levels of depression and stress. In turn, they were more likely to make long-term, thought-out financial decisions. The effects were especially prominent when the cash transfer was a big enough size and given to women.

Poverty is a huge topic - and there's plenty more out there covering different areas besides just the psychological end of it. Poverty is a kind of perpetual motion machine - once you're in it, it's not so easy to get out. There aren't any simple solutions. In these past few years since 2008, in this country (as just one example) plenty of people who had everything - homes, jobs, healthcare - education - lost it all. They were and still are - poor

But yeah - night school should fix all that

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Taking out a debt to go to school and gain employment is one of the most nonsensical things one could do if one really thinks about it...

...I'm gonna go into debt and go to college and hope I get a job afterward to pay off my educational debt...

The above "illogic" is a prime example of how dumbed down we have become. Then, after not being able to secure employment and having a huge school loan debt, a payment is missed and your credit is #ed. So you can live in your car if you have one after the auto loan company doesn't repossess it because of your credit...

Live your entire life walking on egg shells people, that is what you do.

...and the wrong people always seem to be blamed, like blaming undocumented immigrants for your lack of employment instead of blaming the businesses that hire them instead of you...

i knew a couple, neither had a car, neither had a job, yet they had spent over $1000 on a video game in couple months

And I know a lot of Republicans who have a $30,000 truck and a $30,000 RV and tens of thousands of dollars of dirtbikes, snowmobiles, guns, horses, etc yet who claim that the government is making them poor by expecting them to pay some taxes.

There's plenty of irresponsibility around, but the fact is while the wealthy have most of the money, it makes everyone else poorer.

a reply to: CB328

Pare it down to people who have no inkling of the difference between wants and needs and blaming others for getting what they percieve to be free xit because they're frustrated that it didn't snow enough this year for them to use their $18000 snow mobile they never really needed anyway.

a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

Live your entire life walking on egg shells people, that is what you do.

Even if you do everything right

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

I realized this while I was working and wondering why so many of my co-workers were such flaming assholes.

...They borrowed themselves into a corner that they couldn't even get out of by working...

I'm just an asshole for good measure, by the way.

Some just are, but some don't even get why they are so miserable as they are.

Like vicious animals in a cage, driven insane by something they have never known (freedom) without ever having any understanding of why they're crazy.

I ramble.

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: burgerbuddy

Are you a Christian?

If it's any of your business....

I grew up in a very fundamentalist Southern Baptist home. That's why I don't trust Christians; they used to beat me and spew biblical quotes and scripture at the same time. They seemed so full of hate, racism, and holier than thou BS.

However I do incorporate REAL Christian values into my personal theology. It takes a hell of a lot more than quoting scripture, chapter and verse to make a Christian. It helps to have honor, compassion and a sense of human decency and not just claim you have those qualities. Giving to others, calling it charity then patting yourself on the back, that's not Christianity...That's pride, vanity and arrogance.

That's just my experience with organized religion and those that subscribe to it... Your mileage may vary..

No those were hypocritical zealots who themselves were raised wrong and taught scripture carefully worded to back up their view on race relations. SO many do not understand the verse on"keep to your own kind" Its meant to keep to those who are your brothers and sisters in Christ. Alot of SOutherners are taught this means to not be with those of a different ethnicity...which is totally wrong.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Actually I do know a lot of poor people, most of who I know are poor or working poor. And yes from the trailer park and the hood, I have lived in both. Am I an expert in poverty, absolutely not, however that may be defined. How can someone truly be an expert in something that has so many contributing factors? Does one have to be an expert in everything in society to get something done? Are only engineers capable of building?
Plenty of people in the world live bare bones, huts with small communities and are 1 million times happier than most of the richest, would you agree?
Many poor aren't even poor unless you use an experts made up definition of what defines poor. They measure there lives up to there neighbors or celebrities and think they have things dire. I have been to more countries than many have been to states and even our poorest are in luxury compared to say many in India, would you agree? I Many of people could climb out of poverty if you just untied there hands, we think we are helping when we truly are not. Look at lottery winners, there is a reason they go broke within a couple years, everyone knows that. If you took most poor, you could give them 1000 or 100000 and in either case, they will likely be broke within a matter of days. No amount of money short of an infinite amount will fix that. Just like driving up the cost by increasing the demand doesn't fix problems with healthcare. Used to be, people got along just fine (you know 10's of thousands of years) without it.. now suddenly we need it at a cost of your entire livelihood, why? Live a couple years longer? Do you truly need it? Don't take that wrong, of course we do to a degree but to what degree? same could be said about anything in excess of food, water shelter.
Life becomes a great deal easier when you realize money is worthless. People in power treat it as the absolute measure and definining factor but it is not. Once you realize that, then you focus on real solutions to real problems. Individuals are the only ones who know what the cause of there discomfort is. Some it might be lack of skills, some it might be the lack of knowledge to sell there skills, some it might be not willing to stop drinking/drugs, some it might be health reasons etc... even with health related issues if don't figure out a way to work around them the problem doesn't go away. People think experts have all the answer is partly the reason the problem continues to get worse. When I was poor just as now, you no matter how smart you may be, have no clue whatsoever of where my struggle lies without studying me.

If we impowered people and changed some toxic mindests we would get a great deal further than any amount of money will ever get us as a society.

a reply to: swimmer15
You and I agree more than we don't. I'm not an expert either, but one thing I do know is that poverty isn't the result of moral failure

When I was poor just as now, you no matter how smart you may be, have no clue whatsoever of where my struggle lies without studying me.

I agree with this. Which is why I have a problem with people defining other people and their circumstances in such a way that they then feel they can dismiss them

If you took most poor, you could give them 1000 or 100000 and in either case, they will likely be broke within a matter of days. No amount of money short of an infinite amount will fix that.

Your Brain on Poverty: Why Poor People Seem to Make Bad Decisions And why their "bad" decisions might be more rational than you'd think.

In August, Science published a landmark study concluding that poverty, itself, hurts our ability to make decisions about school, finances, and life, imposing a mental burden similar to losing 13 IQ points.

It was widely seen as a counter-argument to claims that poor people are "to blame" for bad decisions and a rebuke to policies that withhold money from the poorest families unless they behave in a certain way. After all, if being poor leads to bad decision-making (as opposed to the other way around), then giving cash should alleviate the cognitive burdens of poverty, all on its own.

Sometimes, science doesn't stick without a proper anecdote, and "Why I Make Terrible Decisions," a comment published on Gawker's Kinja platform by a person in poverty, is a devastating illustration of the Science study. I've bolded what I found the most moving, insightful portions, but it's a moving and insightful testimony all the way through.

I make a lot of poor financial decisions. None of them matter, in the long term. I will never not be poor, so what does it matter if I don’t pay a thing and a half this week instead of just one thing? It’s not like the sacrifice will result in improved circumstances; the thing holding me back isn’t that I blow five bucks at Wendy’s. It’s that now that I have proven that I am a Poor Person that is all that I am or ever will be. It is not worth it to me to live a bleak life devoid of small pleasures so that one day I can make a single large purchase. I will never have large pleasures to hold on to. There’s a certain pull to live what bits of life you can while there’s money in your pocket, because no matter how responsible you are you will be broke in three days anyway. When you never have enough money it ceases to have meaning. I imagine having a lot of it is the same thing.

Poverty is bleak and cuts off your long-term brain. It’s why you see people with four different babydaddies instead of one. You grab a bit of connection wherever you can to survive. You have no idea how strong the pull to feel worthwhile is. It’s more basic than food. You go to these people who make you feel lovely for an hour that one time, and that’s all you get. You’re probably not compatible with them for anything long-term, but right this minute they can make you feel powerful and valuable. It does not matter what will happen in a month. Whatever happens in a month is probably going to be just about as indifferent as whatever happened today or last week. None of it matters. We don’t plan long-term because if we do we’ll just get our hearts broken. It’s best not to hope. You just take what you can get as you spot it.

Followed by this:

Changing the debate

Direct giving was once a radical idea, but the widespread media coverage the research on cash transfers has changed that. The New York Times reported on the “profound effects” of the first Uganda study in 2013 and published a Q&A with Blattman. Slate called the transfers “an amazingly powerful tool for boosting incomes and promoting development.” The Atlantic called Give Directly’s program “genius,” while Bloomberg Businessweek called the transfers “surprisingly effective” and concluded: “So let’s abandon the huge welfare bureaucracy and just give money to those we should help out.”

In fact, the buzz around direct giving was so big, some cautioned that cash transfers are not a cure-all. Certainly, giving people cash is not a panacea, and as the Economist warned, it cannot address many of the deeper causes of poverty. However, what’s clear is that giving cash is an effective tool—even if it is just one tool in the toolbox.

It comes down to how much we care about other people - and how much of an effort we're willing to make without judgement

a reply to: wantsome

I'm sure there are people who fit your description and you can find a hater of just about anyone or anything.

Poor is nothing to be ashamed of at all. What is a problem are those who live on handouts, while being perfectly capable of working, but choose not to work. It's the leeches of society that get the scorn.

Those who think they are owed and demand that those who do the work, give them some of what they earn just for being alive. It's a form of slavery when you think about it. Wanting others to do the work and give you the fruits of that work. When the government enables it through taxes taken under threat of jail, the poor person who refused to participate and lives off of others tax payments become the slavers.

I'm all for helping those who can't help themselves and I'm even for helping with things like food stamps for those who earn too little. I think we are obligated to do that and should do that. When it comes to those who make a career of taking advantage of the system, which is the taxpayers, I don't hate them but don't see any need to worry about them or give them anything.

Ask me for a meal while I'm walking down the street and I'll gladly buy a meal for someone at the nearest cafe. I've had more than a few refuse me when I make that offer and they usually have needle marks or alcohol on their breath. They don't want help, they want a drink or drugs. It's hard to care about them to be honest.

I've hired many people over the years who have dug themselves out of that mess and was happy to do so because they tried. On the other side of that coin, I've also offered jobs to more than a few rather than handing them cash and they refuse or never show up. They refuse real help, that is of their own doing.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Great reply!
"I make a lot of poor financial decisions. None of them matter, in the long term. I will never not be poor, so what does it matter if I don’t pay a thing and a half this week instead of just one thing? It’s not like the sacrifice will result in improved circumstances; the thing holding me back isn’t that I blow five bucks at Wendy’s. It’s that now that I have proven that I am a Poor Person that is all that I am or ever will be. It is not worth it to me to live a bleak life devoid of small pleasures so that one day I can make a single large purchase. I will never have large pleasures to hold on to. There’s a certain pull to live what bits of life you can while there’s money in your pocket, because no matter how responsible you are you will be broke in three days anyway. When you never have enough money it ceases to have meaning. I imagine having a lot of it is the same thing.

Poverty is bleak and cuts off your long-term brain. It’s why you see people with four different babydaddies instead of one. You grab a bit of connection wherever you can to survive. You have no idea how strong the pull to feel worthwhile is. It’s more basic than food. You go to these people who make you feel lovely for an hour that one time, and that’s all you get. You’re probably not compatible with them for anything long-term, but right this minute they can make you feel powerful and valuable. It does not matter what will happen in a month. Whatever happens in a month is probably going to be just about as indifferent as whatever happened today or last week. None of it matters. We don’t plan long-term because if we do we’ll just get our hearts broken. It’s best not to hope. You just take what you can get as you spot it."

I agree with this fully. Great post! When I said in earlier post it's hard to climb out, I was purposely trying to be direct because I know it's extremely hard. For many, myself included it means taking on the world alone and challenging everything you know. But it can be done. Why I think enpowering people and focusing on the toxic mentality above is the solution.. how we fix it, idk honestly, I know it would help a great deal if the media and government actually helped by trying to empower more instead of trying to make people into dependents.

And agree.. making judgements solves nothing, if anything it makes it worse.. its part of the reason so many feel they are stuck.. it isolates people and causes them to close themselves off from people who are not like them. Which of course is the worst place you want to be, looking for help out of a hole from people inside the hole.

a reply to: swimmer15

I honestly feel that politics is a huge part of the problem. Everyone wants to blame the other party - nobody wants to go all in on any attempts to make things better. Money becomes a bone we all fight over - getting the bigger part of it away from the other team without any regard for actual people with real needs

I've no interest in turning this discussion into a partisan brawl - we've all had enough of that

I just wish that we could look at the situation without judgement and work at getting resources to the people that need it the most

I have a friend that once went to do social work in the worst part of the worst part of Chicago. When she was in training she was told that you could always recognize a neighborhood that was almost past helping by looking at their windows. If there were no plants, knickknacks or curtains you were looking at despair. I'm sure that applies to anywhere

Hope is what people need to create a space in their heads for a future. Without hope - nothing else matters

ETA: thanks - but definitely the best part of that post were the words written by someone in need. It's a nice bit of writing and gets to the real point

I do not hate the poor. The self sustainable 'poor' person who rejects defining themselves by material objects brings a tear to my eye.

There are those out there the enjoy life and do not value what the powers that be value. They also are self accountable and self reliable in not burdening society. They even take great pride in being self sufficient while rejecting the norms of society. They have huge gardens and can their food for pennies that provides a year round food source.

I dislike the people the abuse the system. That have taken so much welfare their souls have been corrupted against free will. If we brought the welfare system closer to the community level, then there could be better safeguards against this soul crushing industry. Hunger is one of the best motivators in this reality. We could have community organized food stations. If you want free food, you need to get off of your rear and go somewhere to get food. There could even be overnight sleeping stations with programs to help people, at the community level.

But this corporate, corrupt welfare model needs to be stopped. It does nothing for the individual except to ensure more dependence on the current system.