I Present to You... God

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Nothin

You are misunderstanding evolution. ALL life is at the pinnacle of evolution. There is no such things a "more evolved" or "less evolved". Every living organism is equally evolved for the niches they fill. Saying something is more evolved than something else is just a very BAD apples to oranges comparison.

So there is nothing wrong with always seeing ourselves as the pinnacle of evolution. We were that yesterday and we'll be that tomorrow. But then again so are dogs, but the point of this is that we need to abandon this idea of evolution working in stages, because that isn't how it works at all.

Thanks for your reply. Agree with what you say, but that was not my intention to paint evolution that way exactly. Perhaps wasn't clear enough explaining my thoughts.

What you said: Right now, humans are more evolved than were in the past. Same for dogs, snails, and all living things.
Agreed.
What was trying to say: Right now, when all known species are compared to each other, humans think that we are the most highly evolved species, so far, in the here and now.
That is what was trying to say, but it isn't my personal opinion.
'Twas to set the context for that other post. That context might be lost here in this reply

originally posted by: TzarChasm

imagine if a single cell in your body decided it wished to become a different sort of cell, or maybe participate in a different organism or improve itself to the point it becomes its own organism altogether. have you ever considered this possibility? and how far would you go to grant its freedom? imagine if your heart decided it wanted to be a brain, or your colon wanted to become a trachea. it develops its own personality and dreams and wants to seek its own way independent of you and your biology. would you die to give your individual components their freedom? would this omega point be willing to set entire universes free from its control and supervision if they asked nicely?

No imagination required, this already very much happens! Cancer is a good example. Normal cellular structure mutates into a foreign form and multiplies.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk

originally posted by: TzarChasm

imagine if a single cell in your body decided it wished to become a different sort of cell, or maybe participate in a different organism or improve itself to the point it becomes its own organism altogether. have you ever considered this possibility? and how far would you go to grant its freedom? imagine if your heart decided it wanted to be a brain, or your colon wanted to become a trachea. it develops its own personality and dreams and wants to seek its own way independent of you and your biology. would you die to give your individual components their freedom? would this omega point be willing to set entire universes free from its control and supervision if they asked nicely?

No imagination required, this already very much happens! Cancer is a good example. Normal cellular structure mutates into a foreign form and multiplies.

So what if it were decided that we are cancerous? What if this type V entity decided the absolute eradication of earth is "logical"?

a reply to: TzarChasm

I don't disagree with your underlying premise, I was just pointing out that there is already precedent for an event such as you described.

Interestingly, your point above has merit with respect to the cancer analogy as well. A person either eradicates the cancer, or the cancer exterminates the whole organism (i.e. the person).

So scaling your theory up several thousand orders of magnitude, it is not out of the realm of possibilities that the 'collective' you refer to might react similarly out of 'self' preservation if nothing else, not necessarily malice (which is what you were also alluding to earlier.)

originally posted by: swanne
Is our future an Universe forever kept alive by a form of life so advanced, it is indistinguishable from God and his Heaven? Or are all attempts to reach such a high level of evolution doomed to fail? And if the former is more likely, then are these super-advanced life forms acting upon our present Universe and its content so to encourage the formation of the Omega Point in our future - in other words, ensuring the survival of the Universe?

I don't think we can assume our Universe is the center of time. If you combine the multiverse with the many worlds theory of quantum mechanics then maybe our space-time dimension is just one of an infinite number. Our Big Bang could be the result of a star collapsing to a black hole in another space-time dimension. With this larger view of time, then every possible quantum state is realized. So within any given space-time dimension you have hard determinism. But with the overall infinite set of space-time dimensions you get the possibility of free-will. And even further, with the infinite number of space-time dimensions you get the possibility of possibility. God would then be by definition the sum-total experience of every possible quantum state realized within every space-time dimension. God then is both infinite and finite at the same time. So if you accept this space-time dimension is one of an infinite number of possible ones then there are an infinite number of your Omega points.

I don't think God is interested in manipulating the entire Universe. I think God just sits back and lets the Universe unfold as it will. God exists to experience all the possibilities not to create ones. There is no need because once every quantum state is realized every possible result will have been realized and experienced by God.

I found it strange (to me anyway) that you would pick time as a constant that bleeds through all the membranes of the multiverse.. I tend to believe it is gravity/dark energy/dark matter..... Pick one or all of the above ?

for time has been proven to not be the constant farmer Joe once thought it was.. Imagine a universe expanding (inflation) faster than the speed of light and all bodies in this hypothetical universe are being carried at some large percentage of light.. One Earth day of 24 hours in that theorized universe might be a 1000+ years earth time.. Just a thought

a reply to: 727Sky

Agreed. So on one side of the "equation" (so to speak) we have...

- The strong force
- The weak force
- Electromagnetism
- Gravity

...and on the other we have...

- Length (x)
- Height (y)
- Depth (z)

...and in the middle we have...

- Time

...in a manner of speaking.

Eventually are galaxy will compress to a super black hole and blow up.
then a supper massive super nova (and they think that is a big bang!)
and in trillions of years the gas cloud we live in may do this to.

so for this God race to be truly safe,
they would need to escape some how.
a pocket reality for them to exist in is needed.
we would be left behind to die or grow to God to.

and gods that powerful dont fight.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: 727Sky

I am picking Time instead of gravity for a good reason though. Multiverses are just alternative timelines; therefore shifting through Time is what enables you to travel to alternative timelines. Think of universes like islands, and Time as the sea - to get from one island to the other you need to cross the sea, and the sea is the one thing every universes will be sharing with one another.

Another argument for my choice is the fact that all the forces in the Universe actually depend upon Time to be actual forces. Forces can't exist without Time, for without Time there would ne no motion.

I dunno if I'm making sense?

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: 727Sky

I am picking Time instead of gravity for a good reason though. Multiverses are just alternative timelines; therefore shifting through Time is what enables you to travel to alternative timelines. Think of universes like islands, and Time as the sea - to get from one island to the other you need to cross the sea, and the sea is the one thing every universes will be sharing with one another.

Another argument for my choice is the fact that all the forces in the Universe actually depend upon Time to be actual forces. Forces can't exist without Time, for without Time there would ne no motion.

I dunno if I'm making sense?

i still think a type V entity like what you explained would qualify as a cosmic sized "chaotic neutral" to be avoided at all costs. definitely not a father figure to be approached with financial troubles or for relationship advice. best case scenario, it pulls a brainiac and stuffs our little world in a bottle for collection and research purposes. like an ant farm. that is a very realistic problem to consider if we take the idea of a type V being seriously. who is to say that hasnt already happened. maybe our entire universe is basically a bottle of subatomic fireworks left forgotten on a shelf in some multiversal closet. do we really want to remind the owner that we are still here? are we prepared for the consequences that might follow? hell, maybe a super cosmic cat of some sort already knocked our jar to the floor where our universe shattered and died out and we just havent caught up yet. the same way we can look up and see stars that died thousands of years ago. speculation invites speculation eh?

a reply to: TzarChasm

Totally agree.

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: TzarChasm

Totally agree.

there are many who dont and would insist upon imposing our challenges on a being who is extremely powerful but not at all helpful simply because they too often confuse faith for presumption. human hubris will be the end of us.