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Carbon Tax, Yes or No?

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posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 04:57 PM
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I thought this subject deserved it's own thread.
Truthfully, I have not delved into the economics of it all, I do find the government estimates of how much it will cost me seem quite low.
I made the assertion that this could turn out to be the largest transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich in the history of civilization.
Anyone else have comments on Carbon Taxes? Where I live, it has become a reality, perhaps our solution can be looked at as a model for others jurisdictions.


I was asked:


How much is it actually going to cost you?

The price of Natural Gas is going up by $1.011 / GJ this year, with a further increase to $1.517 next Jan 1st.
I don't have a gas bill handy, here's what market gas is trading for. www.gasalberta.com... Looks to be about a 33 percent increase or something like that. Thats substantial.



Really? How will the rich benefit from it?

Corporate interests are largely left out. Costs will be passed down to the consumer level. Additionally, anything for export is not taxed.
Alberta Carbon Tax in brief


In addition to direct costs, there will be indirect costs from the carbon levy in the form of higher prices for other goods and services. However, the impact is expected to be relatively small since a large portion of commodities bought by Alberta households are imported from outside the province. Imported commodities are not subject to the levy, although the distribution and retailing of those goods will face some carbon levy related charges.



indirect costs of the carbon levy on Alberta households were calculated using a detailed Alberta Input-Output model, which is based on Statistics Canada data and reflects inter-industry as well as cross-border trade flows that occur while producing a specific good or service consumed by Alberta households. To develop the ranges, it is assumed that businesses subject to the levy pass through 50% to 75% of the related costs to consumers.



60% of households will get a full rebate: $200 for an adult, $100 for a spouse and $30 for each child under 18 (up to four children). Single parents can claim the spouse amount for one child, and the child amount for up to 4 more children.

Full rebates will be provided to single Albertans who earn $47,500 or less, and couples and families who earn $95,000 or less. An additional 6% of households will receive a partial rebate.

200 bucks is not going to even cover what I will pay extra for heating alone.


To help businesses adjust to the carbon levy, Alberta’s small business corporate income tax rate is being reduced by one third, from 3% to 2% effective Jan 1, 2017. The reduction is projected to save small business owners $185 million in 2017-18.

A break for business owners.


Marked farm fuels are exempt from the carbon levy. This means that the carbon levy does not apply to dyed diesel or gasoline used in farming operations. Agriculture is the only economic sector with a levy exemption.

A break for farmers.


In addition to marked farm fuel, some other fuels are exempt from the carbon levy, including the following:

purchases of fuel on-reserve or at other prescribed locations by eligible First Nations and individuals for personal and business use
marked gasoline and diesel used by farmers in farming operations
biofuels, including biomethane, biodiesel and ethanol
inter-jurisdictional flights
fuel sold for export
industrial exemptions in cases where fuel is used in industrial processes but not combusted
natural gas produced and consumed on site by conventional oil and gas producers (until Jan 1, 2023)
the use of heating fuels on sites subject to the Specified Gas Emitters Regulations (SGER)/output-based allocation regime
For a full list of carbon levy exemptions, see pages 94-96 of the 2016-19 Fiscal Plan

A break for a whole bunch of other corporate interests.



Large Industrial Emitters will continue to be subject to the SGER framework until the end of 2017, when the province will transition to an output-based allocation approach. Further details will be available after stakeholder engagement.

The new framework, which is endorsed by energy leaders, is designed to reduce the amount of carbon pollution in every barrel of oil.

Under SGER, facilities that emit 100,000 tonnes or more of greenhouse gas emissions are required to annually reduce their site-specific emissions intensity by 20% as of Jan 1, 2017.

There are 4 ways facilities can comply:

make improvements at their facility to reduce emissions
use emission performance credits generated at facilities that achieve more than the required reductions
purchase Alberta-based carbon offset credits
contribute to Alberta’s Climate Change and Emissions Management Fund (Fund)
Facilities that contribute to the Fund pay $20 for every tonne over their reduction target. The price changes to $30 as of Jan 1, 2017.

On-site combustion in conventional oil and gas will be levied starting Jan 1, 2023 while that sector works to reduce methane under the government’s new joint initiative on methane reduction and verification.


edit on 10-1-2017 by D8Tee because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 05:00 PM
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a reply to: D8Tee

No.

Taxing is not the solution.

Climate will change thats how planets work.!

What IS good: Stop polluting.

But that seems not taxable.



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 05:01 PM
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If you let them tally and tax for the carbon emissions, then you open the door to being taxed for your exhalations which happen to be carbon dioxide also.

That's right. They can figure out how to tax you for simply being alive.

So, I vote NO.



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 05:01 PM
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Taxed Enough Already.

The rich aren't going to pay for it either ... they'll just pass the costs along to us.

Wise folk do not invoke the tax code upon themselves.



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 05:05 PM
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No!





posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 05:05 PM
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Funny that the government solution to every problem is a tax that benefits government. Taxes are an attempt at social engineering that just happens to make government bigger and more dependent on taxes.

And it has unintended consequences. For example, taxes on gasoline. Now that cars are more fuel efficient or even switching to alternative fuels, government wants to tax cars on mileage driven, never mind the fact that a gasoline tax IS a tax on mileage, with lower mileage cars paying a greater share of taxes. but the government has grown so dependent on the tax that they "must" find an alternative when the tax begins to dry up. Taxing something is not a "solution" to anything at all.



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 05:07 PM
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How about an air tax? Figure out how much air each of us breathes and tax each person. HOW ABOUT NO BLOODY TAX! IT LIKE PROTECTION MONEY TO THE MAFIA!



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 05:26 PM
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No a tax will do nothing to affect climate change.



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 05:29 PM
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a reply to: Nickn3

Early consensus is No.... Surely someone must think it's a good idea?



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 05:40 PM
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a reply to: D8Tee

No a bunch of bs. How is paying dollars that cant fix the problem going to work.

Dicaprio and Gore both have huge multiple mansions..jet all over the world, but they want us to pay a tax to drive to work or heat our house...eff these evil self interested bast..ds



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 05:48 PM
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Carbon tax? Sure!

And then they will find a use for it - (Zero Emission Power Plant, uses supercritical CO2 (S-CO2) to turn a turbine. Check out my last post on that thread. They are thinking of pumping CO2 a mile down, naturally turning it to S-CO2, then using that to turn one of the new S-CO2 turbines. They think they might demo this in Canada, too).

Then you will have to pay to create waste? So, carbon tax? NO!!

Doesn't do anything about pollution. Just gives those with money a way out to keep on polluting.

What is needed is zero emission energy creation and upcycling.

(Shameless plug) ATS thread: World First. India Chemical Plant Upcycling CO2.

So how can the government make any money if no CO2 is being pumped into the atmosphere? So that means there is no need for a bureaucracy.

In conclusion, carbon tax? NO.



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 05:54 PM
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originally posted by: D8Tee
I thought this subject deserved it's own thread.
Truthfully, I have not delved into the economics of it all, I do find the government estimates of how much it will cost me seem quite low.
I made the assertion that this could turn out to be the largest transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich in the history of civilization.
Anyone else have comments on Carbon Taxes? Where I live, it has become a reality, perhaps our solution can be looked at as a model for others jurisdictions.


I was asked:


How much is it actually going to cost you?

The price of Natural Gas is going up by $1.011 / GJ this year, with a further increase to $1.517 next Jan 1st.
I don't have a gas bill handy, here's what market gas is trading for. www.gasalberta.com... Looks to be about a 33 percent increase or something like that. Thats substantial.



Really? How will the rich benefit from it?

Corporate interests are largely left out. Costs will be passed down to the consumer level. Additionally, anything for export is not taxed.
Alberta Carbon Tax in brief


In addition to direct costs, there will be indirect costs from the carbon levy in the form of higher prices for other goods and services. However, the impact is expected to be relatively small since a large portion of commodities bought by Alberta households are imported from outside the province. Imported commodities are not subject to the levy, although the distribution and retailing of those goods will face some carbon levy related charges.



indirect costs of the carbon levy on Alberta households were calculated using a detailed Alberta Input-Output model, which is based on Statistics Canada data and reflects inter-industry as well as cross-border trade flows that occur while producing a specific good or service consumed by Alberta households. To develop the ranges, it is assumed that businesses subject to the levy pass through 50% to 75% of the related costs to consumers.



60% of households will get a full rebate: $200 for an adult, $100 for a spouse and $30 for each child under 18 (up to four children). Single parents can claim the spouse amount for one child, and the child amount for up to 4 more children.

Full rebates will be provided to single Albertans who earn $47,500 or less, and couples and families who earn $95,000 or less. An additional 6% of households will receive a partial rebate.

200 bucks is not going to even cover what I will pay extra for heating alone.


To help businesses adjust to the carbon levy, Alberta’s small business corporate income tax rate is being reduced by one third, from 3% to 2% effective Jan 1, 2017. The reduction is projected to save small business owners $185 million in 2017-18.

A break for business owners.


Marked farm fuels are exempt from the carbon levy. This means that the carbon levy does not apply to dyed diesel or gasoline used in farming operations. Agriculture is the only economic sector with a levy exemption.

A break for farmers.


In addition to marked farm fuel, some other fuels are exempt from the carbon levy, including the following:

purchases of fuel on-reserve or at other prescribed locations by eligible First Nations and individuals for personal and business use
marked gasoline and diesel used by farmers in farming operations
biofuels, including biomethane, biodiesel and ethanol
inter-jurisdictional flights
fuel sold for export
industrial exemptions in cases where fuel is used in industrial processes but not combusted
natural gas produced and consumed on site by conventional oil and gas producers (until Jan 1, 2023)
the use of heating fuels on sites subject to the Specified Gas Emitters Regulations (SGER)/output-based allocation regime
For a full list of carbon levy exemptions, see pages 94-96 of the 2016-19 Fiscal Plan

A break for a whole bunch of other corporate interests.



Large Industrial Emitters will continue to be subject to the SGER framework until the end of 2017, when the province will transition to an output-based allocation approach. Further details will be available after stakeholder engagement.

The new framework, which is endorsed by energy leaders, is designed to reduce the amount of carbon pollution in every barrel of oil.

Under SGER, facilities that emit 100,000 tonnes or more of greenhouse gas emissions are required to annually reduce their site-specific emissions intensity by 20% as of Jan 1, 2017.

There are 4 ways facilities can comply:

make improvements at their facility to reduce emissions
use emission performance credits generated at facilities that achieve more than the required reductions
purchase Alberta-based carbon offset credits
contribute to Alberta’s Climate Change and Emissions Management Fund (Fund)
Facilities that contribute to the Fund pay $20 for every tonne over their reduction target. The price changes to $30 as of Jan 1, 2017.

On-site combustion in conventional oil and gas will be levied starting Jan 1, 2023 while that sector works to reduce methane under the government’s new joint initiative on methane reduction and verification.



No... if it is that bad then limit it..

A carbon tax is just a way for the gov to profit off rape and pillaging the planet.



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 05:57 PM
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a reply to: D8Tee

You have hit the nail on the head..... The whole reason for the "climate change" push is to implement the "Carbon Credit Trading Scam".

Everyone get's to pay so that middleman traders get rich (and those fueling the system).

It is THE SOLUTION just waiting for a problem to implement.


But no. It is a scam and anyone paying attention knows it.



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 05:59 PM
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The law of supply and demand implies that increased costs decrease demand so yes, the tax may reduce emissions. Will it? I dunno.

What is Alberta going to do with the revenue?

Reinvesting in our economy

The carbon levy is the key tool that will pay for the transition to a more diversified economy. Over the next 5 years, the levy is expected to raise $9.6 billion, all of which will be reinvested in the economy and rebated to Albertans.

$6.2 billion will help diversify our energy industry and create new jobs:

$3.4 billion for large scale renewable energy, bioenergy and technology
$2.2 billion for green infrastructure like public transit
$645 million for Energy Efficiency Alberta, a new provincial agency that will support energy efficiency programs and services for homes and businesses

$3.4 billion will help households, businesses and communities adjust to the carbon levy:

$2.3 billion for carbon rebates to help low- and middle-income families
$865 million to pay for a cut in the small business tax rate from 3% to 2%
$195 million to assist coal communities, Indigenous communities and others transition to a cleaner economy


www.alberta.ca...



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 06:05 PM
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NO more taxes
People can't cause planet wide change, good or bad
Use more coal for cheaper power
Reduce tax on gasoline and diesel so folks will drive more and buy more fuel
Tax electric cars by the mile because they are using roads for free
Ethanol is a drink not fuel
Bring back incandescent bulbs



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 06:09 PM
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a reply to: D8Tee

Totally against. Plus, she's taxing natural gas, clean burning fuel, taxing consumers, at this point not corporations (as far as I know).

How many rural residents are now going to burn more wood instead, a dirty burning fuel.
Our provincial premier didn't think this through at all....



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 06:11 PM
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a reply to: D8Tee

No. On the other hand anybody who has more than two children should lose all tax breaks.



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 06:18 PM
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a reply to: snowspirit




How many rural residents are now going to burn more wood instead, a dirty burning fuel.
How many will turn actually end up paying less for heating when their rebate is factored?

Nurse is frugal with her spending on food and fuel, so her related costs are likely to amount to $150 next year, offset by a $300 rebate, making the carbon tax a net gain for her household.

www.cbc.ca...

Dial back on consumption a bit and get a benefit. That's the point. Isn't it?



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 06:19 PM
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a reply to: D8Tee

I would ask WHY do we need a carbon tax? I see no compelling reason.



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 06:20 PM
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a reply to: D8Tee

I say YESSS!!!!.

Because the politicians are already dying of starvation and scurvy. On top of that, the federal government has proven itself worthy to handle our hard earned 'Monopoly Bills' with care, efficiency, and consideration.

Yes. Why not give them even more money to solve problems that don't exist?


edit on 10-1-2017 by BELIEVERpriest because: typos




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