The Truth Behind the Christ Myth: Ancient Origins of the Often Used Legend

a reply to: glend

Again (different response) the Qumran sect were not Essenes.

Second, Paul didn't learn anything from anyone, so he says, but it's not that Qumran language is absent from his epistles I am saying, and possibly he did spend time with the Zaddikim (the "Essenes") or a sub sect of.

I am saying there is no proof Paul was the "Lying Tongue" the enemy of the Zaddikim, though I acknowledge the similarities and possibility.

For instance, the only NT author to use the term Belial (Beliar?)). The leader of the sons of darkness and prototype for the Christian version of Satan.

So I see your point, but you should look into the scholar Eisenman who is the originator of the comparison and doesn't himself actually believe Paul was the "Lying Tongue" or James "Righteous Teacher" though he speculates.

His work on the Scrolls is honorable, and he is very intelligent, you could learn much from him.

a reply to: SethTsaddik

Have located a translation of Mandaic Book of John (the Baptist) that is speculated to date from 3rd century so might not be historically accurate. Doesn't portray a pretty picture between John the Baptist and Jesus who seeks to become a desciple of John the Baptist (at least it help explains why Jesus is baptised by John the Baptist and not the other way around).

John spoke to Jesus Christ in Jerusalem and said,
“You lied to the Jews
and you have deceived the men, the priests.
You cut the seed from men
and childbirth and pregnancy from women.
You loosed the Sabbath that Moses ordained.
In Jerusalem you lied to them with horns
and sounded tooting with a trumpet.”
.......
Guard me, my brother, from the god fashioned by a carpenter!

If a carpenter made a god, then who made the carpenter ?

link

If we presume the vigin birth and resurection is a roman fabrication. Then what remains is a man that possibly was in conflict with the teachings of the Torah which is why he overturned the tables at the church instead of becoming one of their high preists. I don't see any investment the Mandaeans had in believing Jesus was a false Messiah which is the viewpoint of the Jews. However Gospel of Thomas tells me Jesus was very spiritual.

The conflicts are very confusing.

originally posted by: SethTsaddik
a reply to: glend

Paul was clear about being a Pharisee and going to Damascus has nothing to do with Essenes.

I know you are thinking of the DSS because you mentioned the Damascus Document which only presents a character called the Lying Tongue and other epithets for someone who resembles Paul's character.

But those people weren't Essenes. That was something pushed by Catholic scholars and De Vaux.

There is nothing in the Scrolls to suggest they were the peaceful Essenes, these people were militant and desired to conquer Rome, and similar to the Nazarenes, sometimes called themselves Ebionim, a Jewish Christian Church that rejected Paul.

And they were also called Zaddikim, Hasidim, for the ultra pious or righteous.

I would love to think it was Paul they were talking about but it's highly unlikely and I see no evidence other than being an enemy and called a liar that is where the information and similarities end.

The qumran community existed for hundreds of years before Rome came to dominate Palestine.

They appear to be extremely strict and very traditional Levitical Hebrews. Far stricter than the more liberal Pharisees. The milatarism probably arises as reaction to the Greeks who ruled prior to the Romans and the strictness of a people constantly under threat of dissolution amongst many more powerful nations.

I agree that they may not have been Essene, but to assume they absolutely weren't, or they were Nazarines or Ebionites or Zechionim as some sort of identifiable cult or denomination is perhaps going too far.

Similarly to conflate the occasional reference to "the lying one" as being a particular contemporary (at the time of writing) adversary rather than being the traditional interpretation (the devil), is similarly going beyond the spirit and intent of the texts which were written not just for a time, but to stand for perpetuity and also for nationality beyond cultish community.

a reply to: CB328

Without having read the article on that dreaded page, I can relate to the origins of the base mythos about the seed that falls from the sky to earth, grows into a bush, then grows to yield fruit, dies and is spread across the globe or it's burnt and it goes to heaven, well, it does seem like an obvious inspiration, and that's just the basic framework, the intrinsic nature of the NT gospels is beyond esoteric. It works and ties its little knots back and forth like an incredible mesh of self fulfilling and self replicating argumentation-- and that's what makes it such an incredible piece of literature. That's why I have piled up what must be hundreds of books on religion, mystery and myth-- and the Bible in particular.

It's the best story ever told. Every little thing the lord does becomes magic. He makes a boat? Nah, he walks on water, and having drunk up everything in his wedding he serves a speech about water being better than wine, bingo, he turns water into the best wine on Earth. He builds a bridge, and all of a sudden he is saint Michael hovering above the water. He builds a door into a house, he walks through walls. It's artisans' children stories for heavens' sake. What have you done today dad? I flew across the sky in an iron bird-- it's fairy tales about reality made to glorify the commonest man on earth, the carpenter from Nazareth.

It's easy to see the father of Jesus first wife was a farmer. Watered out wine was considered the best wine in harvest, only better drink considered would be vinegar and water, what Jesus was reserved as a treat on the cross. As well as every other treat he had on Golgotha. There was a mixture of herbs he refused. A nail to stand upon (so he could regain walking), nailed between the shins (so his hands and legs would be unharmed, he was a good carpenter, they typically made quality furniture and clad rich peoples' homes inside, like the one he had the keys for where they drank and ate the first eucharist). Crucifixion holds relevancy to carpentry and construction (cross, artisans' guild), Golgotha doesn't mean skull, but block and tackle (constructors' guild). And the shape, a risen cross, a word of a spear (soldies' guild). And-- given an Albac cipher Golgotha turns Jesus into the Son of Man Michael of Daniel, hovering above the stream of life (blood holds life) Yitsayel Michael (prophets' and messengers' guilds).

The crown of thorns they could have dropped in my opinion, but it hurried up the process, since God shortened the time and the suffering for Man (artists' guild). But sacred Saint Longinus with the holy spear who had to get him down from the cross to «see» (he was blind), is most certainly sacred, counted from the collar bone two or three depressions (?) and stabbed him, just slightly, saved his life and Longini, regained his eyesight a wee bit as the lord's hemothorax sprouted all over his face-- surgeons' guild). The story is that of a masters' tale. To know everything hidden there in the story demands good oversight over the different walks of life, the professions of the workers' and artisans' guilds.

Regarding the Zeitgeist film on Christianity and it's Pagan origins, that material was taken from the work of D.M. Murdock who has written several books on the subject.
She did release another version and a PDF which sources all of the material and dealt with criticisms and debated directly on her own forum which is still available for anyone to read. Her site is : truthbeknown.com

Read some of her work and then Elaine Pagels - The Lost Gospels and it's so obvious that Christianity is just a combination of several mystery religions that gained strength through Rome.

Your link says that the "green-man" was from the Neolithic Age.

Ne·o·lith·ic
ˌnēəˈliTHik/
adjectiveARCHAEOLOGY
relating to or denoting the later part of the Stone Age, when ground or polished stone weapons and implements prevailed.
the Neolithic period.

You know that there are zero texts from that age? The oldest texts are from the Bronze Age, and all theories of religion from that age are based off of archeology and modern people's perspectives of stone sculptures of cave paintings.

And the person who invented the idea of Neolithic female based religions Marija Gimbutas invented almost all of her information.

Cant believe the amount of time people spend on "record" to prove or disprove something.

I'll be up writing tomorrow's news while youre sleeping. Good way to control, apparently.

Christ was located via a star. Anyone remember who found him? Trismegistus something?

Hasn't this stuff been done to death already?


Nice distraction from the real Pagan myths adopted into Christendom though.