Why are you unconvincing?

a reply to: TzarChasm

Both sides are unconvincing and I'm interested in why both sides believe they are unconvincing.

Every answer so far seems to be "I'm smart, they're not".

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Well in the case of the Abrahamic fundamentalists, they find science, which does not use the bible as a source (so any science) to be suspect. Thus no matter how good the proof, they will ignore it, as it is not gods word.

My own faith values truth and inspiration to be the most important things, and as such science gets a better hearing.

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Well in the case of the Abrahamic fundamentalists, they find science, which does not use the bible as a source (so any science) to be suspect. Thus no matter how good the proof, they will ignore it, as it is not gods word.

My own faith values truth and inspiration to be the most important things, and as such science gets a better hearing.

I value science, just not the that relies on assumption and imagination

a reply to: Raggedyman

Since you value science perhaps you could answer the question I put forward.

Why do you think that you are unconvincing?

So far, from the pro-evolution side it has just been the predictable answer of blaming the other person.
As a creationist do you use that same excuse?

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
a reply to: Raggedyman

Since you value science perhaps you could answer the question I put forward.

Why do you think that you are unconvincing?

So far, from the pro-evolution side it has just been the predictable answer of blaming the other person.
As a creationist do you use that same excuse?

I don't try and convince people creation is the logical scientific answer to the issue, creation is not logical or very scientific.
Though many people believe we were seeded and guided by aliens, intelligent design?
I accept evolution is the most reasonable secular answer, just don't see the science behind it as valid to call it anything but a faith

a reply to: Raggedyman

OK then, you are constantly trying to convince people that evolution is unscientific and faith based.

Why do you think you are unable to convince people?

OP your making this thread go in circles.

a reply to: DarkvsLight29

When no one is willing to accept their own downfalls it's bound to happen.

This is a topic in which people are more concerned with showing how smart they are. I'm just trying to understand if everyone is so smart, why can't they convince the idiots.

So far the only answer is "because they are stupid".

Until people trying to convince others realise they are part of the problem I'm not sure it's possible to go anywhere but in circles.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
a reply to: DarkvsLight29

When no one is willing to accept their own downfalls it's bound to happen.

This is a topic in which people are more concerned with showing how smart they are. I'm just trying to understand if everyone is so smart, why can't they convince the idiots.

So far the only answer is "because they are stupid".

Until people trying to convince others realise they are part of the problem I'm not sure it's possible to go anywhere but in circles.

because free will. everyone has the free will to believe whatever they want to. you cant take that away.

Sometimes truth is less fun than fantasy.

a reply to: Raggedyman

As always you don't actually understand how science works. You can make sweeping statements, but never back them up.'

a reply to: Raggedyman

You have yet to prove it is not valid. You believe that to be the case. Belief doe not equate to fact. SOmething fundamentalists often get confused over.

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: Raggedyman

You have yet to prove it is not valid. You believe that to be the case. Belief doe not equate to fact. SOmething fundamentalists often get confused over.

It's amazing your statement
I have to prove its not valid, really, think about what you just said
Think about what you have just said in front of the whole ats community
I have to prove its not valid, really

Atheist fundamentalists like yourself don't understand science either

Not only do you not understand science...
Anyway, the onus is not on me to prove fairy tale and myth, never has or will be
Sorry logic has slipped by you

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
a reply to: Raggedyman

OK then, you are constantly trying to convince people that evolution is unscientific and faith based.

Why do you think you are unable to convince people?

Well that's easy
Look at noinden and their argument above

a reply to: Raggedyman

I'm not an athiest. I'm a theistic individual. I hold a deep faith. You may not acknowledge it, but as a Pagan, I am theistic.

When someone makes a statement, they are obliged to prove it. That is how these discussions work. If you then provide what you consider to be evidence, one of us is obliged to disprove it. Thus you have made the statement that certain aspects of science are beliefs. You've never been able to do so.

Similarly one of us will post some evidence, say showing evolution in action. All you ever do is post "thats not proof" with out being able to demonstrate it.

So you get to try again. I'm not an atheist. I'm not a fundamentalist. Oh and I am a scientist. I get paid to commit science for a living.

Try again.

a reply to: Raggedyman

That's not easy, I'd prefer not to refer to other's responses to get your response.

Unless everybody's answer is just that the other person is stupid.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Raggedyman is not stupid. He however is not logical, nor is he willing to look at evidence, and be convinced. He does not understand the philosophic burden of proof. Thus, he is unqualified to speak for creationism.

a reply to: Noinden

He's qualified to speak for himself though.

I actually quite like his stance on empirical evidence. It's pretty much bullet proof and I'm sure he knows more about evolution than most on this site. (He wrongly dismisses it, but he's not unaware of the arguments)

But he faces the same problem of being unconvincing that we all do.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Except empirical evidence has been posted and he dismisses it. Some of us actually work in the disciplines involved with evolutionary study (for me its Chemistry and Bioinformatics, others here are genetics and Biochemistry).

I think you don't understand that some of us are not "unconvinced" we reject the other side. Quite simply there is no evidence for the creationist side. It may help for me, that my spiritual path does not rely on a God creating everything Rather we all came from Chaos.

a reply to: Noinden

You're missing my point. I'm not concerned with who is correct. It's completely irrelevant.

But to clarify, I don't think you're "unconvinced". I think you're unconvincing and Raggedyman is proof of that.

Should you keep throwing facts at people and keep being unconvincing or are you interested in finding out why you are unconvincing and try a different tactic.