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Celts and Their Asian Urheimat

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posted on Nov, 27 2016 @ 12:25 PM
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By 10,200–8,800 BCE, farming communities arose in the Levant and spread to Asia Minor, North Africa and North Mesopotamia. Mesopotamia is the site of the earliest developments of the Neolithic Revolution from around 10,000 BCE.

Early Neolithic farming was limited to a narrow range of plants, both wild and domesticated, which included wheat, millet and spelt, and the keeping of dogs, sheep and goats. By about 6,900–6,400 BCE, it included domesticated cattle and pigs, the establishment of permanently or seasonally inhabited settlements, and the use of pottery.
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The Bell-Beaker culture

The Bell-Beaker culture (sometimes shortened to Beaker culture, Beaker people, or Beaker folk), c. 2800 – 1800 BCE, is the term for a widely scattered 'archaeological culture' of prehistoric western Europe starting in the late Neolithic or Chalcolithic and running into the early Bronze Age. The term was coined by John Abercromby, based on the culture's distinctive pottery drinking vessels.




They say the rapid expansion of the Bell Beaker culture, which is believed to have been instrumental in building the monoliths at Stonehedge, could hold the key.

Dailymail 2013 - European DNA suddenly change 4,000 years ago


c. 2800 – 1800 BCE



The Neolithic Age, Era, or Period, or New Stone Age, was a period in the development of human technology, beginning about 10,200 BC, in some parts of the Middle East, and later in other parts of the world and ending between 4,500 and 2,000 BC.



The Chalcolithic, "copper" and "stone") period or Copper Age, also known as the Eneolithic or Æneolithic (from Latin aeneus "of copper"), was a period in the development of human technology, preceding the Bronze Age, before it was discovered that adding tin to copper formed the harder bronze. The Copper Age was originally defined as a transition between the Neolithic and the Bronze Age.

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Yamna culture

The Yamna or Yamnaya culture, also called Pit Grave Culture and Ochre Grave Culture, was a late Copper Age/early Bronze Age culture of the Southern Bug/Dniester/Ural region (the Pontic steppe), dating to 3,500 – 2,300 BCE. The Yamna culture is identified with the late Proto-Indo-Europeans, and is the strongest candidate for the Urheimat (homeland) of the Proto-Indo-European language.


c. 3500 BC – 2000 BC

Yamna and Yamnaya are borrowed from Ukrainian: Ямна культура and Russian: Ямная культура respectively, and both mean "pit-grave". The root in both cases is яма (yama) meaning "pit".

The people of the Yamnaya culture were the likely result of admixture between eastern European hunter-gatherers (via whom they also descend from the Mal'ta-Buret'[1] culture or other, closely related people) and Near eastern people, namely hunter-gatherers from the Caucasus c.q. Iran Chalcolithic related people which were related to Caucasian hunter-gatherers. Their culture is materially very similar to that of the people of the Afanasevo[2] culture, their contemporaries in the Altai Mountains; furthermore, genetic tests have confirmed that the two groups are genetically indistinguishable.

They are also closely connected to later, Bronze Age cultures which spread throughout Europe and Central Asia, especially the Corded Ware people, but also the Bell Beakers as well as the peoples of the Andronovo, Sintashta, and Srubna cultures. In these groups, there are present several aspects of the Yamna culture (e.g., horse-riding, burial styles, and to some extent the pastoralist economy). Studies have also established that these populations derived large parts of their ancestry from the steppes,
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Corded Ware Culture

The Corded Ware culture comprises a broad Indo-European archaeological horizon of Europe between c. 2900 BCE — circa 2350 BCE, thus from the late Neolithic, through the Copper Age, and ending in the early Bronze Age. Corded Ware culture encompassed a vast area, from the Rhine on the west to the Volga in the east, occupying parts of Northern Europe, Central Europe and Eastern Europe.

The Corded Ware was genetically strongly related to the Yamnaya culture, suggesting that the Corded Ware culture originated from migrations from the Eurasiatic steppes. The Corded Ware culture may have disseminated the Proto-Germanic and Proto-Balto-Slavic Indo-European languages, and may also have had a role in the spread of the Southern European Italo-Celtic and probably Proto-Greek language.
The Corded Ware Culture also shows genetic affinity with the later Sintashta culture[3], where the proto-Indo-Iranian language originated.


circa 2900 BCE — circa 2350 BCE


Summary

I did some dig deep research, mostly to see where the genetic makeup for the Celts came from, much of their language and culture has a common thread with the eastern Europeans or western Asia. However despite these facts, their cultural heritage is different and has a strong influence of the Indo legacy dating back to 7500BC, The earliest Neolithic sites in South Asia are Bhirrana in Haryana dated to 7570-6200 BCE, and Mehrgarh, dated to 7500 BC, in the Kachi plain of Baluchistan, Pakistan; the site has evidence of farming (wheat and barley) and herding cattle, sheep and goats.

They may look White but lived as Indians. Their cultural mythological traditions along with their creation myths established pagan roots to their "homeland" or "urheimat". In the end, this culture forced other cultures into forming our fortified settlements, laws, rules and regulations.
They were no more than uncivilized brutes, in an era where agriculture and technological advancement were at its start.
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Notes

[1]The Mal'ta-Buret' culture is an archaeological culture of the Upper Paleolithic (c. 24,000 to 15,000 BP) on the upper Angara River in the area west of Lake Baikal in the Irkutsk Oblast, Siberia, Russian Federation
[2]The Afanasevo culture (Афанасьева: also transliterated Afanasievo, Afanásyva etc.) is the earliest Eneolithic archaeological culture found until now in south Siberia, occupying the Minusinsk Basin and the Altai Mountains from 3300 to 2500 BC
[3]The Sintashta culture, is a Bronze Age archaeological culture of the northern Eurasian steppe on the borders of Eastern Europe and Central Asia. ( Extensive copper and bronze metallurgy and Fortified settlements.
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Sources

Neolithic
Beaker Culture
Mesolithic
Yamna Culture
Corded Ware Culture
Sintashta Culture
Afanasevo culture
Mal'ta-Buret' culture
Dailymail
edit on 20161127 by tikbalang because: image




posted on Nov, 27 2016 @ 02:40 PM
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a reply to: tikbalang

Excellent research. S & F!

The missing piece to your puzzle and mainstream anthropology's puzzle is Atlantis. The Celts, Basques, and Berbers all share their roots from that common origin and it can be observed in their DNA among other similarities.

I know this sounds like some moron making an oversimplified statement in response to someone's thorough research, but it's certainly something to look into.

There isn't a lack of evidence, merely a lack of "accepted" evidence.




posted on Nov, 27 2016 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: AgarthaSeed

First mention of Atlantis came from Platos work;" Timaeus and Critias " and a reference to a Creation myth in the "enlightenment era" of the Greek culture.. However since its a gap for 2000 years, between the old vedic cultures and the Yamna conflicts..

I do however believe that Atlantis is a creation myth..

My reference was actually looking at DNA markers, but i also know if i should start posting DNA markers, it would just became a "mixture of mess".



posted on Nov, 27 2016 @ 04:17 PM
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a reply to: tikbalang

A few things to be very careful of:

(1) Talking about cultures (Celts in this case) and genetics. The way people trace DNA in these cultures is by looking at non-coding (ie it produces no Physical characteristic) DNA mutations in either mitochondia or the Y-Chromosome. It is a useful tool, but still does not prove a culture went anywhere.

(2) Celtic, is a very broad term, coveirng a whole heap of peoples. Their cultures are similar, but not the same. Gauls and Gaels speak different branches of the language, and had some differences in culture (for example).

(3) The Yamna culture is not proven as Indo-European (yet) but is quite likely the best suspect for what we reconstruct as the Proto Indo-Europeans.



posted on Nov, 27 2016 @ 04:34 PM
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a reply to: Noinden

The milk revolution is great, especially when following the genes for it..



posted on Nov, 27 2016 @ 04:45 PM
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originally posted by: tikbalangThey were no more than uncivilized brutes, in an era where agriculture and technological advancement were at its start.


What does that make the Germanic peoples up until the early Middle Ages? Wild animals?



posted on Nov, 27 2016 @ 04:50 PM
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a reply to: Talorc


Archaeologists who unearthed the remains of 500 Stone Age corpses in the German town of Herxheim say the meat was cut off their bones as if they were livestock. One conclusion is that the people were eaten.


Depends on how you look on it



posted on Nov, 27 2016 @ 04:56 PM
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a reply to: tikbalang

When I find it difficult to function in civilized society, or I'm appalled at human behavior, it always helps to remind myself that I share genetics with slope-headed Neanderthals and various semi-sapient hominid species, and so does everyone around me. It helps.



posted on Nov, 27 2016 @ 05:03 PM
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a reply to: Talorc

Im pretty sure those Neanderthals were more peaceful..



posted on Nov, 27 2016 @ 05:05 PM
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originally posted by: tikbalang
a reply to: Talorc

Im pretty sure those Neanderthals were more peaceful..


True. And they had larger brains, and superior Mousterian tools for a while. We have a lot yet to learn.



posted on Nov, 27 2016 @ 05:07 PM
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a reply to: tikbalang

The lactose tolerance is also not a sign of culture. It may well be that the PIE culture was the source, or that an ancestor group did.

Again, you can't follow culture by genes. It is a common mistake people make.

Tell me what physical charactaristics make a "Celt"?



posted on Nov, 27 2016 @ 05:17 PM
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a reply to: Noinden

Culture is mostly based in a belief system, that's why the mythologies are of importance.. Nietzsche quoted once; A countries border is defined by its culture..

One of the most important thing about lactose tolerance is that it paved for a another food source, they found that the genetic marker for lactose tolerance is not that old..



posted on Nov, 27 2016 @ 06:16 PM
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a reply to: tikbalang

Georges Dumézil made a good living exploring the various aspects of Indo-European cultures. So you can have over-arching cultural aspects, which define a culture. For example themes in the mythology. That is the only real way, outside of artifacts, of tracing a culture. Genes don't tell you the language spoken, the Gods honored, the art painted etc.

I've got a background in Bioinformatics as well as Chemistry. I understand the importance of the mutation that allowed people to utilize milk, beyond infancy. It is indeed one of the more modern mutations. However you can't say (for example) with certaintly its a marker of the Indo-European peoples. For example using the molecular clock technique on the mutation it pushes its appearance back to around 10 000 ago. You also have to understand that Lactose persistence (tollerance) actually appears to have co-evolved around the world, rather than have a single source. (1), (2)

This is why I caution as using it as a way to show a culture spread. Beyond a culture of herding. That culture is not unique to the Ind-Europeans.


(1) Swallow, D. M. (2003). "Genetics of lactase persistence and lactose intolerance". Annual Review of Genetics. 37: 197–219
(2) Yuval Itan, Adam Powell, Mark A. Beaumont, Joachim Burger, Mark G. Thomas "The Origins of Lactase Persistence in Europe" PLOS Computational Biology, 2009



posted on Nov, 27 2016 @ 06:34 PM
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a reply to: Noinden

The majority of the world are lactose intolerant, its a genetic marker for the Yamna culture, boat axe people.. 3500-2000BC, being lactose tolerant and lactose intolerant is a dividing chapter in human history since the Neolithic culture instead adopted to agriculture instead of roaming, a genetic marker proves that the Native American Indians and the Yamna culture came from the same place..

Just that the Yamna culture died out, while the Native American continued for thousands of years.

Edit: thank you for source
edit on 20161127 by tikbalang because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2016 @ 06:53 PM
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a reply to: tikbalang

NO it is a Genetic Marker for people who had Lactose persistence at greater levels in their genetic pool, than others. It has nothing to do with the culture. That is the mistake. You can not equate genetics with culture. One is based on genes, and the other is based on Memes (in the Dawkins meaning sense). Anyone can learn to be part of a culture, you can not learn to tollerate lactose, well not yet (who knows what science will bring).

The Yamna culture evolve, you and I are probably typing in a language who claims ancestory with theirs (assuming they were proto indo-European in some manner). You will also find that the Native American cultures (its not one) evolved (in the social sense) over time.

Again you are making dramatic comments about lactose persistence (tollerance) and intollerance. A single mutation is not a dividing chapter for the species. As evidenced by about 65% of the species not being tollerant. (1) It was a useful tool. But there are other useful tools. Unless you are about to make some claim of superiority of those who are persistent?

(1)ghr.nlm.nih.gov...



posted on Nov, 27 2016 @ 07:00 PM
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a reply to: Noinden

Also since you want to look at Genetics and the Yamna culture, have you read Haak's paper? (1)

(1) Nature 522, 207–211 (11 June 2015)

So I am going to ask, why you are focusing on Lactose persistence? Its a single trait.



posted on Nov, 28 2016 @ 01:05 AM
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a reply to: Noinden


www.newscientist.com...
Yes that a group of ancient cowpokes developed a gene to digest milk is not due to culture as a stand alone, and I don't think the O.P made a claim of superiority for loctose persistent, for that would be foolish looking at the said map regarding early civilizations or cultures.



posted on Nov, 28 2016 @ 04:02 AM
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Research - Neoteny - Lactose tolerance - zoology

Sorry for irrelevant input, I forget if I don't



posted on Nov, 28 2016 @ 12:51 PM
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a reply to: Spider879

Indeed, I'm just used to seeing someone pull out genetics, and talk of cultural improvement as a way to say their culture is superior. So I tend to stomp down hard on that nonsense.



posted on Nov, 28 2016 @ 01:25 PM
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a reply to: tikbalang

Nice Avatar pic OP

WHere did you get it???



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