Obamacare was chaotic, but a repeal could be much worse

Read it and weep. Although no one would ever claim that Obamacare is perfect, it was a long-needed attempt by government to fix our corrupt and massively overpriced corporate health care system. Now that Republicans are coming into power, they have to potential to put the healthcare of tens of millions of Americans into shambles if they're not careful. A lot of Trump supporters could have some serious buyer's remorse when they lose their healthcare.

www.msn.com...

So. Obamacare screwed up healthcare so bad that extricating it will only tear open the wound?

Sounds like quite a system. Healthcare is worse and more expenaive now than ever, and theres less choices.

a reply to: CB328

I would prefer to go back to the day when I was allowed to not have it. My destiny, my choice.

originally posted by: CB328
Read it and weep. Although no one would ever claim that Obamacare is perfect, it was a long-needed attempt by government to fix our corrupt and massively overpriced corporate health care system. Now that Republicans are coming into power, they have to potential to put the healthcare of tens of millions of Americans into shambles if they're not careful. A lot of Trump supporters could have some serious buyer's remorse when they lose their healthcare.

www.msn.com...

It was an attempt by our president (no , in Obama's case I never capitalize) to destroy the health care in this country. Damned near worked

Obama is that you?
You do realise less choices equals less competition?

"Obamacare WAS chaotic???

Thanks, I needed a good laugh!!LOL

If you want to keep your......auhhhh forget it!!

Yea... putting in a bloated red tape mess, that was written by lobbyist because the president couldnt be bothered to actually lead on his signature piece of legislation, that has lead to sky rocketing costs for everybody not directly subsidized by the fed.

This thing needs to be aborted and rebuilt..

a reply to: CB328

The Mandate Will be Eliminated by President Elect Trump the Minute he is Sworn in as President . The Rep . Majority in Congress will Forward a Bill to Defund it . Once that Happens , Obamacare is Gone for Good .

The only thing that makes insurance more chaotic is having more insurance companies.

Because coverage is evaluated, subsidy allocation for 'discounts' etc. is based on the pool of insured people.

In otherwords, insurance monopoly is the most efficient at returning deductions and having low rates.

People(democrats) thought Obamacare would 'take over' with massive amounts of subscribers, and cripple other insurance into conglomeration. This didn't happen, and was a rather aggressive approach anyway at fixing the issues. There's no reason to have Obamacare without this, and the mandate it was able to push for pre-existing conditions applications with the face of this act was worth it alone.

If it's repealed, the first thing that will happen is private insurance rates will go down. Because of the fraud associated with the topic though, more insurance companies will be made, and the rates will go back up. Having Government connection to this fraud really did feel like a safety net, even if it was unnecessary. Their understanding of the situation was really accurate too. People cry the rates are rising, but the calculated projections made by the ACA in 2008 are incredibly accurate to what's happened. He KNEW people wouldn't buy into it, but was just hoping people would for the aspect of fixing the subsidy through getting everyone insured. That just didn't happen.

originally posted by: EternalShadow
"Obamacare WAS chaotic???

Thanks, I needed a good laugh!!LOL

I hope you are laughing at Obamacare...Of course , millions of Americans cant...they are stuck with an ever increasing policy payment , good for nothin , piece of __________ (fill in the blank with any form of derogatory term. Just keep it to yourself though for T&C reasons)

originally posted by: CB328
Read it and weep. Although no one would ever claim that Obamacare is perfect, it was a long-needed attempt by government to fix our corrupt and massively overpriced corporate health care system. Now that Republicans are coming into power, they have to potential to put the healthcare of tens of millions of Americans into shambles if they're not careful. A lot of Trump supporters could have some serious buyer's remorse when they lose their healthcare

Its hard to understand what you are even talking about or why. Like the guy said its worse I pay 3 times what I paid BEFORE the thing got f'ed with. AND the prices I would pay for oh boy just that exceptional care under the AHCA are not any better really than what is paid not. Way off the chart.

Let me ask....are you someone with a nice little policy under the AHCA subsidized by.....me?

2012 $252/mo. with $10/$15 co-pays. Loved my plan. Loved the doctors at my family practice.

2016 $502/mo. with $90/$120 co-pays. Despise the plan. Family practice closed and doctors I've known for 20 years scattered to who knows where.

2017 $1063/mo. Will instead pay the $2K penalty for 2017 and bank the difference between my 2016 rate and the 2017 penalty. Will be able to provide help to my 84 year old Mom whose Medi-Gap went from $123 in 2013 > $268 in 2016, with separate Rx rider having doubled during same period.

Summary
$252 > $1063 in just five years. Income increased 2.31% during same period.

I could care less what anyone does with the ACA at this point. I'm tapped out.

Get rid of it.

Fake news MSN using terror tactics like fear to keep their socialist nightmare.

Fact: US average life expectancy dropped under ObamaCare.

Trash it, burn it, and pay no mind to Fake News outlets like MSN. The same outlet that reported Hillary would win the presidency hands down. Remember that, and the horrors just a little taste of socialism brings.

[sarcasm] Slavery was bad. But repealing slavery without replacing it with something else was worse. [/sarcasm]

You don't need to replace a bad law to get rid of it.

Reply to OP

No, wrong. It was an attempt to enslave Americans and force them into servitude as a social justice thing with fines for not being in compliance by purchasing a product which is unconstitutional all the way.

It is also a massive felony fraud committed by Obama by bearing false things about it just to sell it to America, and even though Americans hated it and didn't want it, they crammed it through a back room deal without even reading it, and no representation by not allowing a vote by the people.

Obama care is illegal and nullified. I have never participated and never will because it was a crime on America.

Trump should just trash it in it's entirety and you can help pay for the difference for supporting a lie in the first place.

a reply to: imjack

In otherwords, insurance monopoly is the most efficient at returning deductions and having low rates.

Under exactly what economic theory is monopoly ever more efficient or less expensive?

Whichever theory it is, it is in direct conflict with thousands of years of experience. Competition improves efficiency and reduces cost. That is classic economic theory which has coincided with realty as long as people have traded with each other. Even Keynesian economic theory allows for that fact.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: imjack

In otherwords, insurance monopoly is the most efficient at returning deductions and having low rates.

Under exactly what economic theory is monopoly ever more efficient or less expensive?

Whichever theory it is, it is in direct conflict with thousands of years of experience. Competition improves efficiency and reduces cost. That is classic economic theory which has coincided with realty as long as people have traded with each other. Even Keynesian economic theory allows for that fact.

TheRedneck

Competition does in standard economics reduces cost, but when it comes to insurance, the 'product' is just a pool of money that is communally collected and reserved for incident. Not trade. Deductibles are most influenced not even by the candidate or policy, but by how successful the insurance company is in the first place. When it comes to the deals insurance companies make with medical institutions having more money and status gives them power too.

With insurance, you can't just 'be competitive' there is no way to improve your product beyond slashing more costs, and it's only efficient to slash the costs if you have massive subscribers.

Think of a simple incident like a car crash, and imagine only 2 insurances exist total and everyone is insured. Because there are two companies, 100% of people pay into the insurance, but only 50% of the time will a company have a loss. It's only advantageous for this specific currency business to abuse the theory that 'competition reduces cost' because everyone pays, but the returns are different by the company. They're all collectively praying you will not claim anything, this is a truth we all know, they don't want to help people. There's also many people that have multiple coverage, and just overall it's not really efficient at all in that mechanism.

Basically to retort, what part of it being a monopoly would cost more?

a reply to: imjack

Your theory ignores human greed. All companies exist to make a profit; if there is no profit, there is no reason to do business. Just like you or I would not work at a job that payed less than it costs to commute to the job, neither will any business engage in an activity that costs more to operate than it produces. And just like you or I seek the highest pay for the least hours, so does any business seek to maximize it's profit margin. Insurance companies are no different.

In practice, competition means insurers must convince customers to purchase insurance. The companies with plans that provide superior coverage for a lower price will prevail and make a profit. The ones who provide inferior coverage or charge more than the consumer is willing to pay will not maximize profit.

When Obamacare went into effect, the option to deny purchase was taken out of the equation. The ability to tailor plans for those wanting specific coverage to avoid high costs was curtailed. The result was that insurers no longer had to deal with customers who demanded value at the threat of not being insured, and could raise prices as well as deductibles.

Competition was curtailed, and the result was higher prices and higher deductibles. Higher deductibles meant more collection issues for the medical industry. Everything balanced out just as classic economics claimed it would, leaving only the insurers as winners.

And I must mention here the fact that insurers do not provide medical care. They never have. They just make it more expensive by acting as a regulator and high-profit middleman.

Another effect has been that smaller insurers who once could survive by issuing niche policies while they grew to be able to compete, can no longer compete. Only the larger insurers are now included under Obamacare, and the result has been drastically increasing premiums. The closer we come to monopolizing insurance, the higher the rates get. Monopoly is causing price increases.

Another result is that the costs of full-time benefits have risen, forcing companies to move toward part-time employment only to avoid paying benefits or contract labor. That's less income for workers, who in turn are further unable to purchase insurance... if they want to eat, heat their homes, and have electricity.

These are not theoretical: they are empirical. They are happening before our very eyes.

So to answer your retort, every part of a monopoly raises prices, whether the industry in question is insurance, automobiles, toothpaste, or video games.

TheRedneck

a reply to: imjack

In otherwords, insurance monopoly is the most efficient at returning deductions and having low rates.

A big fat NOOOOOOO!

What world are you living in? Obviously one without shareholders! They demand return.