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The identity of the Devil

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posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 01:14 AM
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There's no name mentioned in Habakkuk 3:4, let alone horns. The word you are referring to as a name can be translated to "hidden" or "the hiding", it's a noun (biblehub's text analysis has it as "the hiding", as do most English translations there, a significant number of them have "hidden").

This is what Habakkuk 3:4 says in the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (2013 revision); perhaps to some it may demonstrate why it wasn't quoted in the OP, just making stuff up is way easier, and if it tickles people's ears, entertains them and is what they want to hear, it'll 'sell' well:

His brightness was like the light.
Two rays flashed from his hand,
Where his strength was hidden.


There's no demon mentioned, there's no name mentioned, there are no horns mentioned. Verse 3 is talking about God. The name of this God is mentioned in verse 2 in honest translations of the bible regarding God's name (try the ASV, NWT, DBY or YLT that are available on the biblehub website except the NWT; on biblehub you can also notice an important part of Satan's real deceptive activities regarding the identity of God and the tactic of 'hiding in plain sight').

Regarding the topic of the NWO and those supposedly informing you about it referring to biblical aspects of it, they've got it all wrong, and it''s on purpose (from the perspective of most it's just because of trying to make a buck with telling exotic tales that captivate the attention of the listener, tickling their ears, see 2 Timothy 4:3,4. Of course Satan has other motives when making use of this form of greed and people wanting to feel clever and get attention, be seen by other people as wise teachers of important secrets and conspiracies.):

People who are into this kind of stuff (like the OP or mentioned in the video above; also see the text under my name to the left regarding my phrase "into this") are not awake (to the real Satanic deceptions). They behave as rebellious stubborn goats being conditioned with the idea that being sheeplike is a bad thing (anyone misapplying the notion of being sheeplike to conflate with being asleep to the NWO or Satan's deceptions is a clear tell-tale sign you shouldn't be taking your information from them or anyone associated with them or riding the same or connected bandwagons of exotic tales making heavy usage of the term "sheeple" to play on people's pride and fear of seeming stupid or ignorant, gullible, etc. It's also part of nurturing people's intellectual superiority complexes, connected to these same basic emotions of pride and fear, see article in my signature about how propaganda and deception works).

AS WRITER and broadcaster Ludovic Kennedy states, for centuries no one in Christendom doubted the reality of the Devil. Rather, Christians were at times “obsessed by the power of Satan and his demons,” as Professor Norman Cohn puts it. (Europe’s Inner Demons) This obsession was not limited to simple, uneducated peasants. The belief that the Devil materialized in the form of an animal to preside over evil and obscene rituals, for example, “belonged not to the folklore of the illiterate majority, but, on the contrary, to the worldview of the intellectual elite,” says Professor Cohn. This “intellectual elite”—including learned clerics—was responsible for the witch-hunts that swept through Europe from the 15th to the 17th century, when church and civil authorities are said to have tortured and killed about 50,000 alleged witches.

Not surprisingly, many have rejected what they consider to be wild, superstitious notions about the Devil. Even back in 1726, Daniel Defoe derided people’s belief that the Devil was a frightful monster “with bat’s wings, horns, cloven foot, long tail, forked tongue, and the like.” Such ideas, he said, were “weak fancied trifles” manufactured by “devil-raisers and devil-makers” who “cheated the ignorant world with a devil of their own making.”

Source: Is There a Devil?
edit on 5-12-2016 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 06:24 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic

Seriously you would just go off some loose English translation...?



Hebyon is the term given, if you think that simply refers to God why does the text also go on to mention pestilence and catastrophe going before this Hebyon?

It is also the case that the description corresponds to Ugaritic sources on Hby



So there are three traditions that use the same term and cultic associations, the biblical, the Ugaritic and Ebla.

I did notice that it's generally considered Haby/Hebyon might have some association with the hidden, which i'd have been fine with, but did look further and there is an academic paper directly addressing the singular question, the conclusion there The Babbler, the only association with the hidden is based upon Isaiah (26: 20) which instructs to hide one's self from Haby in the innermost chamber, so i guess for lazy scholars it's all about hiding...

He of two horns and a tail

a reply to: Pinocchio

This is a bit confusing Habibi...


...the lexcmc ~bb/~by "Iove" is cognate with Akkadian bbb "caress" and appears also in Aramaic personal names. Moreover, it may be that ~bb "murmur, babble" and ~bb "love" (both bababu in Akkadian) are not two homophonous roots, but a single root

This root is perhaps reflected in the Arabic I]ubab "serpent, certain black aquatic insect, or small animal," probably because of the sound these creatures make (cr., the Akk. "the Gods of Uruk turned into flies buzzing [i·Oab·bu·bu] in the squares," bablibu. and Akk. babubftu "bee,"

edit on Kam1231339vAmerica/ChicagoMonday0531 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2016 @ 02:19 AM
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a reply to: Kantzveldt
It means "hidden". I thought that was clear from my first comment. It's not a name as your OP suggests, it's a noun. Your entire OP rests on this little twist of clarity (or at least the parts that attempt to drag the bible into this nonsensical tale designed to grab undue attention). I'm not going to give it much more attention.

By the way, "El" is also not a name. It's a grammatical variant of the Hebrew word for "god", which isn't a name. This is all part of obscuring the identity of the god whose name in ancient Hebrew with vowel marks is: יְהֹוָה, transliterated to the Roman Alphabet: YEHOWAH, ancient Hebrew without vowel marks: יהוה‎ (transliterated: YHWH), English, Dutch and German: Jehovah, (German also uses: Jehova). A longer list of transliterations and translations in different languages and dialects can be found here.

The real Satanic conspiracy exposed in the bible:

"They intend to make my people forget my name...." (Jeremiah 23:27a)

That's why Jewish teachers (see 2 Timothy 4:3,4) teach their flocks not to use God's name. And even take it as far as getting people to write or type "G-d". Demonstrating the state of the minds of those doing that and teaching that. If you can't even talk normal English (or any other language) anymore...there's something going on with your mind, see my signature and text under my name to the left.

That's why people use the excuse regarding exact spelling or pronounciation to distract from what's mentioned in the video below towards the end (6:49) about bible translations:


And that's why people pretend that the Hebrew words "el" and "hebyon" are names. Which in turn connects to the argument that God has many names or that he has no unique name or that it's unpronouncable (among similar arguments about exact spelling or supposed false renderings influenced by .... just fill in your boogeyman of choice, usually Roman Catholicism).

And that's why people don't understand or get this crucial message from Jehovah to all people of the earth (before it's too late and you get dragged down with someone who wants to drag every human down with him, the message also talks about the deceptions and conspiracies present in this world regarding what other people talk about as "the NWO" or "the Matrix" with a completely wrong view of what's really going on; they know something is up, but they've been fed too much mental poison about it):

Here's some advice you can use against his and your adversary and how to resist what you refer to as the NWO:

Babylon the Great
Highlights From the Book of Revelation—II
edit on 6-12-2016 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2016 @ 05:11 AM
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a reply to: Kantzveldt

Do you know if there is any connection to Hubaba or Huwawa?



posted on Dec, 6 2016 @ 05:30 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic


It means "hidden". I thought that was clear from my first comment. It's not a name as your OP suggests, it's a noun.


It is clear that's what it gets generally translated as, but also clear that's wrong, try actually making a case based on research, the issue is glossed over because it's problematic, what is actually hidden is the real meaning and context, and what you end up with is hilarious interpretations such as this;


And his brightness was as the light; he had horns coming out of his hand: and there was the hiding of his power.


We can agree that Hebyon is a noun.


A noun is a part of speech that denotes a person, animal, place, thing, or idea. The English word noun has its roots in the Latin word nomen, which means “name.”


There is no Hebrew equivalent of the Germanic term "God", early NW Semitic culture had followed the Mesopotamian tradition of the term Dingir to denote the general Divine, in Egypt the term had been Neter, for the Greeks Theos, Divine itself from the Latin, but in the Hebrew bible only specific nouns are used, of which El was the earliest.



a reply to: zardust

That's a good question and i was wondering the same the other day, i think there could well be particularly given some of the recently recovered text which concerned that part of the Gilgamesh epic, were Humbaba orchestrates the sound of the forest


The chatter of monkeys, chorus of cicada, and squawking of many kinds of birds formed a symphony (or cacophony) that daily entertained the forest’s guardian, Ḫumbaba. The passage gives a context for the simile “like musicians” that occurs in very broken context in the Hittite version’s description of Gilgameš and Enkidu’s arrival at the Cedar Forest. Ḫumbaba’s jungle orchestra evokes those images found in ancient Near Eastern art, of animals playing musical instruments. Ḫumbaba emerges not as a barbarian ogre and but as a foreign ruler entertained with music at court in the manner of Babylonian kings, but music of a more exotic kind, played by a band of equally exotic musicians


Newly found text

So right there we have the murmuring and the babbling of the forest, and this is suggested in his name, the comparison with Babylon also succinct

edit on Kam1231340vAmerica/ChicagoTuesday0631 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2016 @ 05:38 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic


Jehovah's Witnesses and their many failed prophecies
carm.org...



posted on Dec, 6 2016 @ 06:23 AM
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a reply to: Kantzveldt
Not that you care, but there's no name mentioned in Isaiah 26:20 either:

Go, my people, enter your inner rooms,
And shut your doors behind you.
Hide yourself for a brief moment
Until the wrath* has passed by. [*: Or “denunciation.”]


Here it's a verb that they're confusing people about. And there are still no horns mentioned in the entire chapter of Habakkuk 3 in honest and accurate translations of the Hebrew sources (not to mention that even if you want to be unclear in your translation such as the KJV, the horns would still be coming out of his hand, not his head; and it's still not talking about a demon, no demon is even mentioned in the chapter). You got some cute wordplay for the meaning of the word "verb" to pretend it's a name as well?

AS MEANS of communicating have expanded—from printing to the telephone, radio, television, and the Internet—the flow of persuasive messages has dramatically accelerated. This communications revolution has led to information overload, as people are inundated by countless messages from every quarter. Many respond to this pressure by absorbing messages more quickly and accepting them without questioning or analyzing them.

The cunning propagandist loves such shortcuts—especially those that short-circuit rational thought. Propaganda encourages this by agitating the emotions, by exploiting insecurities, by capitalizing on the ambiguity of language, and by bending rules of logic. As history bears out, such tactics can prove all too effective.

Source: The Manipulation of Information: Awake!—2000
My research was already included, try following the links, I know you'd like to think you know better than every translator involved in the translations listed at biblehub, but that kind of intellectual superiority complex really hampers your ability to learn even the most basic things about the languages the bible was written in and the research that has gone into that for thousands of years.

Really, it puzzles my mind how anyone can read a demon into this account:

Habakkuk 3:

The prayer of Ha·bakʹkuk the prophet, in dirges:* 2 O Jehovah, I have heard the report about you. I am in awe, O Jehovah, of your activity. In the midst of the years* bring it to life! In the midst of the years* make it known. May you remember to show mercy during the turmoil.+ 3 God came from Teʹman, The Holy One from Mount Paʹran.+ (Selah)* His majesty covered the heavens;+ With his praise the earth was filled. 4 His brightness was like the light.+ Two rays flashed from his hand, Where his strength was hidden. 5 Before him went pestilence,+ And burning fever followed at his feet.

Follow the earlier link I shared to the NW translation and you can do your own research what this text is referring to. For example by clicking the + behind "pestilence" it will lead you to the following bible verses (let the bible interpret the bible if you don't understand and don't trust anyone):


Numbers 16:46
46 Moses then said to Aaron: “Take the fire holder and put fire from the altar in it and put incense on it and go quickly to the assembly and make atonement for them, because indignation has gone out from Jehovah. The plague has started!”
Numbers 25:1
25 When Israel was dwelling in #ʹtim, the people started to commit sexual immorality with the daughters of Moʹab.
Numbers 25:9
9 Those who died from the scourge amounted to 24,000.
Numbers 14:11, 12
11 Then Jehovah said to Moses: “How much longer will this people treat me without respect, and how much longer will they not put faith in me in spite of all the signs that I performed among them? 12 Let me strike them with pestilence and drive them away, and let me make you into a nation greater and mightier than they are.”

ATS is annyongly blocking the word (synonym) for "poo" with a # in the quotation above. No matter how much people want to slander Jehovah God and paint a pcture of him as a demon or evil tyrant or dictator, he will never be what some people with another spiritual father try to paint him as.

John 8:42-50:

42 Jesus said to them: “If God were your Father, you would love me,+ for I came from God and I am here. I have not come of my own initiative, but that One sent me.+ 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? Because you cannot listen to my word. 44 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father.+ That one was a murderer when he began,*+ and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie.+ 45 Because I, on the other hand, tell you the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Who of you convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why is it that you do not believe me? 47 The one who is from God listens to the sayings of God.+ This is why you do not listen, because you are not from God.”+ 48 In answer the Jews said to him: “Are we not right in saying, ‘You are a Sa·marʹi·tan+ and have a demon’?”+ 49 Jesus answered: “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me. 50 But I am not seeking glory for myself;+ there is One who is seeking and judging.

When I tell you that: "Something is hidden." Have I used a name in that sentence? Logic and honest use of language in communication with others isn't as complicated as some people make it out to be.

edit on 6-12-2016 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2016 @ 07:14 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic

It's a Qal imperative, one does not simply ignore a Qal imperative...


In Isa 26:20 the term (htibi) is usually considered a Qal imperative and translated ‘hide thy self. & as the forerunner of the devil. When he was around the instructions were Go, my people, enter into your chambers, and shut your door behind you, until Haby, the Wrath, in a little while will have passed”.


It's not a general Hebrew term for hide, so someone shouts HABI !!!, you run and hide real quick.


Hidden in Hebrew


edit on Kam1231340vAmerica/ChicagoTuesday0631 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2016 @ 08:20 AM
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a reply to: Kantzveldt
God: Insight, Volume 1

GOD

Anything that is worshiped can be termed a god, inasmuch as the worshiper attributes to it might greater than his own and venerates it. A person can even let his belly be a god. (Ro 16:18; Php 3:18, 19) The Bible makes mention of many gods (Ps 86:8; 1Co 8:5, 6), but it shows that the gods of the nations are valueless gods.—Ps 96:5; see GODS AND GODDESSES.

Hebrew Terms. Among the Hebrew words that are translated “God” is ʼEl, probably meaning “Mighty One; Strong One.” (Ge 14:18) It is used with reference to Jehovah, to other gods, and to men. It is also used extensively in the makeup of proper names, such as Elisha (meaning “God Is Salvation”) and Michael (“Who Is Like God?”). In some places ʼEl appears with the definite article (ha·ʼElʹ, literally, “the God”) with reference to Jehovah, thereby distinguishing him from other gods.—Ge 46:3; 2Sa 22:31; see NW appendix, p. 1567.

...

The plural form, ʼe·limʹ, is used when referring to other gods, such as at Exodus 15:11 (“gods”). It is also used as the plural of majesty and excellence, as in Psalm 89:6: “Who can resemble Jehovah among the sons of God [bi·venehʹ ʼE·limʹ]?” That the plural form is used to denote a single individual here and in a number of other places is supported by the translation of ʼE·limʹ by the singular form The·osʹ in the Greek Septuagint; likewise by Deus in the Latin Vulgate.

The Hebrew word ʼelo·himʹ (gods) appears to be from a root meaning “be strong.” ʼElo·himʹ is the plural of ʼelohʹah (god). Sometimes this plural refers to a number of gods (Ge 31:30, 32; 35:2), but more often it is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. ʼElo·himʹ is used in the Scriptures with reference to Jehovah himself, to angels, to idol gods (singular and plural), and to men.

When applying to Jehovah, ʼElo·himʹ is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. (Ge 1:1) Regarding this, Aaron Ember wrote: “That the language of the O[ld] T[estament] has entirely given up the idea of plurality in . . . [ʼElo·himʹ] (as applied to the God of Israel) is especially shown by the fact that it is almost invariably construed with a singular verbal predicate, and takes a singular adjectival attribute. . . . [ʼElo·himʹ] must rather be explained as an intensive plural, denoting greatness and majesty, being equal to The Great God.”—The American Journal of Semitic Languages and Literatures, Vol. XXI, 1905, p. 208.

...

At Psalm 8:5, the angels are also referred to as ʼelo·himʹ, as is confirmed by Paul’s quotation of the passage at Hebrews 2:6-8. They are called benehʹ ha·ʼElo·himʹ, “sons of God” (KJ); “sons of the true God” (NW), at Genesis 6:2, 4; Job 1:6; 2:1. Lexicon in Veteris Testamenti Libros, by Koehler and Baumgartner (1958), page 134, says: “(individual) divine beings, gods.” And page 51 says: “the (single) gods,” and it cites Genesis 6:2; Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7. Hence, at Psalm 8:5 ʼelo·himʹ is rendered “angels” (LXX); “godlike ones” (NW).

The word ʼelo·himʹ is also used when referring to idol gods. Sometimes this plural form means simply “gods.” (Ex 12:12; 20:23) At other times it is the plural of excellence and only one god (or goddess) is referred to. However, these gods were clearly not trinities.—1Sa 5:7b (Dagon); 1Ki 11:5 (“goddess” Ashtoreth); Da 1:2b (Marduk).

At Psalm 82:1, 6, ʼelo·himʹ is used of men, human judges in Israel. Jesus quoted from this Psalm at John 10:34, 35. They were gods in their capacity as representatives of and spokesmen for Jehovah. Similarly Moses was told that he was to serve as “God” to Aaron and to Pharaoh.—Ex 4:16, ftn; 7:1.

...
The Greek Term. The usual Greek equivalent of ʼEl and ʼElo·himʹ in the Septuagint translation and the word for “God” or “god” in the Christian Greek Scriptures is the·osʹ.

The True God Jehovah. The true God is not a nameless God. His name is Jehovah. (De 6:4; Ps 83:18)...

Jehovah: Insight, Volume 2

“God” and “Father” not distinctive. The title “God” is neither personal nor distinctive (one can even make a god of his belly; Php 3:19). In the Hebrew Scriptures the same word (ʼElo·himʹ) is applied to Jehovah, the true God, and also to false gods, such as the Philistine god Dagon (Jg 16:23, 24; 1Sa 5:7) and the Assyrian god Nisroch. (2Ki 19:37) For a Hebrew to tell a Philistine or an Assyrian that he worshiped “God [ʼElo·himʹ]” would obviously not have sufficed to identify the Person to whom his worship went.

In its articles on Jehovah, The Imperial Bible-Dictionary nicely illustrates the difference between ʼElo·himʹ (God) and Jehovah. Of the name Jehovah, it says: “It is everywhere a proper name, denoting the personal God and him only; whereas Elohim partakes more of the character of a common noun, denoting usually, indeed, but not necessarily nor uniformly, the Supreme. . . . The Hebrew may say the Elohim, the true God, in opposition to all false gods; but he never says the Jehovah, for Jehovah is the name of the true God only. He says again and again my God . . . ; but never my Jehovah, for when he says my God, he means Jehovah. He speaks of the God of Israel, but never of the Jehovah of Israel, for there is no other Jehovah. He speaks of the living God, but never of the living Jehovah, for he cannot conceive of Jehovah as other than living.”—Edited by P. Fairbairn, London, 1874, Vol. I, p. 856.

The same is true of the Greek term for God, The·osʹ. It was applied alike to the true God and to such pagan gods as Zeus and Hermes (Roman Jupiter and Mercury). (Compare Ac 14:11-15.) Presenting the true situation are Paul’s words at 1 Corinthians 8:4-6: “For even though there are those who are called ‘gods,’ whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many ‘gods’ and many ‘lords,’ there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him.” The belief in numerous gods, which makes essential that the true God be distinguished from such, has continued even into this 21st century.

Paul’s reference to “God the Father” does not mean that the true God’s name is “Father,” for the designation “father” applies as well to every human male parent and describes men in other relationships. (Ro 4:11, 16; 1Co 4:15) The Messiah is given the title “Eternal Father.” (Isa 9:6) Jesus called Satan the “father” of certain murderous opposers. (Joh 8:44) The term was also applied to gods of the nations, the Greek god Zeus being represented as the great father god in Homeric poetry. That “God the Father” has a name, one that is distinct from his Son’s name, is shown in numerous texts. (Mt 28:19; Re 3:12; 14:1) Paul knew the personal name of God, Jehovah, as found in the creation account in Genesis, from which Paul quoted in his writings. That name, Jehovah, distinguishes “God the Father” (compare Isa 64:8), thereby blocking any attempt at merging or blending his identity and person with that of any other to whom the title “god” or “father” may be applied.

edit on 6-12-2016 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2016 @ 02:45 PM
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a reply to: Kantzveldt

Out of curiosity, what makes you think a "proper devil" has horns and a tale? Because that imagery has been shown to have been co-opted from various deities (not evil) of non Abrahamic faiths.



posted on Dec, 6 2016 @ 06:53 PM
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a reply to: Kantzveldt

That's interesting information, the Ras Shamra tablets are almost impossible to find in book or online in English.

One book, Religious Texts of Ugarit, a paperback for 80$ has the translation of a majority of the religious texts like Baal Cycle and El and Asherah, Shachar (mistaken for Lucifer), Shalim and Danel, Mot, Yam and Anath.

Ugarit is a wealth of Hebrew source material, Yam means sea in Hebrew, Mot means death and Mot was the god of the underworld. Baal fights with Yam, gets the title of Most High although El was still the Father of the God's and became the God of Israel.

Illhim or Elohim is used to describe the host of Heaven and not a single God.


This character I've never heard of, probably the source of Azazel.



posted on Dec, 6 2016 @ 07:02 PM
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a reply to: Kantzveldt

El is not a noun, it's a name, like Baal.

Baal is a god, it also means Lord.

Molech/Melech is a god, it also means King.

Hebrew gods were made nouns to hide the fact that they were gods when they decided to unite under one God, all the gods became nouns to humanize their meaning.

But the Bible still mentions Baal, Asherah, El and they are names.

Elohim is a noun. It's backwards but true.



posted on Dec, 6 2016 @ 07:13 PM
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Did anyone read the link?


The general conclusion of the paper is the HBY means babbler and describes El's drunken state.

Why would it be advertised as a discovery of the original devil when the paper concludes otherwise?

If this is what gets 22 stars I am shocked, it's not even accurately presented and its premise is concluded to be false in the link.
edit on 6-12-2016 by SethTsaddik because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2016 @ 03:55 AM
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a reply to: Noinden

Well i suppose the origin of the notion had become so obscure they were suspecting anything having horns and a tail of being the Devil, and so for that reason many candidates were suggested, all of which were eventually found innocent.

a reply to: SethTsaddik

It is a suggestion there that Haby is a consequence of El's drunken state, but the text does indicate as an independent personage, but that mention is in the overall context of a suggested cure for hang overs.

The myth of Hababby from Ebla involves much more of what would be generally expected of a Devil, and corresponds with notions of emergent evil in the Hurrian Kumarbi epic, so i don't really think you have anything to moan about with regards to my not delivering a proper Devil.


edit on Kam1231341vAmerica/ChicagoWednesday0731 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2016 @ 04:10 AM
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a reply to: Kantzveldt

The only reason that Satan is said to look like a goat (horns, tail) is because the Catholic Church made that his image to decrease the popularity of the goat headed god of music, Pan, of Greek mythology.

Azazel is connected with goats, only in that the Jews sacrificed a goat to him through and not his appearance.

There is no Biblical reason to believe Satan is anything other than a regular angel, doing a job under orders from God, and not a horned devil or the enemy of God.

People have devil madness, the kind of thing that makes people pretend something like this OP is accurate.

Only the link in the OP, if the OP or anyone else actually read it, says it is not talking about a horned god but describing El's drunkenness.



posted on Dec, 7 2016 @ 04:11 AM
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a reply to: Kantzveldt

I don't think there is a HBY, it's an adjective.

I think if there is from a different culture that it has nothing to do with El or Canaanite mythology and should not be presented as a ''devil" when it isn't.

Much is known about Canaanite mythology, if anyone is a devil it would be Yam or Mot.
edit on 7-12-2016 by SethTsaddik because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2016 @ 04:59 AM
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a reply to: SethTsaddik

Obviously the name derives from an adjective, as the Ebla text mention is "I have bound Habhaby. I have bound his tongue., so the Devil was babbling and his tongue was bound.

The greater context for what is involved with all this does source to Hurrian culture and the Devil involved is actually Hedammu, born of the daughter of the sea God and Kumarbi, or Dagon, but Ebla was a religious back water of Anatolian and Mesopotamian tradition, El is their variant of En-lil, as in Ilu, or Kumarbi of the Hurrians, or Dagon of the middle Euphrates.

Hurrian tradition indicates that the black stone that the babbler has been bound to and consigned to the underworld becomes the basis for the rise of a subsequent evil new world order, that once more the babbling re-commenced, and this when Haby emerged from the Sinai wilderness.

Song of Hedammu
edit on Kam1231341vAmerica/ChicagoWednesday0731 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2016 @ 11:38 AM
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a reply to: Kantzveldt

There is a good chance the word in question implies a deity/demon. In Hab 3:5 we see Resheph and Debir/Dabir/Dabar accompanying YHWH. Resheph and Dabir. It wouldn't be totally out of line to assume Habab was part of this retinue also, and our translations of the bible are wrong again.



posted on Dec, 8 2016 @ 01:23 PM
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a reply to: Kantzveldt


Look here how Humbaba is quite similar to Medusa
Humbaba
cc.bingj.com...

He also seems quite similar to Bes

Ok so Cybele, the original Mother Goddess, associated with snakes and birds. Possibly having the same name as Kubaba. At some point the neolithic Mother goddess culture was overtaken by the patriarchal god cultures. And the Epic of Gilgamesh being a great example of that culture. So the old goddess is subverted and turned into a demon who protects the Cedar Forest. We see Medussa and Humbaba acting as apotropaic guardians, and they look quite similar. Also the split stance they take looks like the Swastika to me.

The cherubim also guard the doorway to the garden of eden. The temple of Solomon had a portion called the Forest of Lebanon or the Forest of Cedars. The garden of eden is the same as the temple. The Holy of Holies is the midst of the garden (the ark being the Tree of knowledge of good and evil, and the presence of the Lord being the Tree of Life), the Holy place is the Garden, the outer court is the land of Eden, and the rest of the world is the land of Nod. Now we've discussed some of these connections before in one of your threads relating to the square and the pegasus. (the pegasus was born from the blood of Medusa).

Qadesh Stele is a representation of the Hebrew Temple. A top down view. The cherubim are a representation of the same. And of course there is Resheph, and IMO Dabir as Min. Btw in case you are unsure of where I'm getting the REsheph and Dabir from Hab 3:5 those are the Hebrew words that are translated as plague and fiery arrows, but the actual word is RSP which is the same as Resheph in Egyptian.

Add to that the bronze serpent Neshustan that was a symbol of the Mother Goddess, associated with Hathor, the patron of the mining community at Serabit El Khadim where the earliest evidence of Proto-Sinaitic writing is found, and is the likely real Mount Sinai. A temple to Hathor was found at Timna another mining site, in which they found a bronze serpent in the Holy of Holies. Also associated with Hathor is Bes, who happens to look exactly like Humbaba/Medusa. As you know Hathor and Qadesh are essentially the same. Qodesh is the Hebrew word for Holy and the name of the temple. Horim is the Hebrew word for ancestors. Moses had two brothers named Hor and Har-un (Aaron). Miriam was likely a priestess of Hathor-Meri, and the original Israelite religion was that of Hathor/Horus, aka Mary/Jesus

Back to Timna. Timna is the place where Samson lived. The name Samson is Shamash, aka UTU. And UTU is who raised Humbaba. Samson is also Hercules who killed the Nemean Lion. Humbaba is seen often to look like a lion (and so is Bes)

Samson wiki

Samson bears many similar traits to the Greek Heracles (and the Roman Hercules adaptation), inspired himself partially from the Mesopotamian Enkidu tale: Heracles and Samson both battled a lion bare handed (Lion of Nemea feat), Heracles and Samson both had a favorite primitive blunt weapon (a club and an ass's jaw, respectively), and they were both betrayed by a woman which led them to their ultimate fate (Heracles by Deianira, Samson by Delilah). Both heroes, champion of their respective people, die by their own hand: Heracles ends his life on a pyre, while Samson makes the Philistine temple collapse upon himself and his enemies.[45][46]


Humbaba wiki

Another description from Georg Burckhardt translation of Gilgamesh says, "he had the paws of a lion and a body covered in thorny scales; his feet had the claws of a vulture, and on his head were the horns of a wild bull; his tail and phallus each ended in a snake's head."

Notice the feet of Ishtar, now go look at the head of horns on Qadesh.



Gorgon wiki

The legend of Perseus beheading Medusa means, specifically, that "the Hellenes overran the goddess's chief shrines" and "stripped her priestesses of their Gorgon masks", the latter being apotropaic faces worn to frighten away the profane.


Bes wiki

Many instances of Bes masks and costumes from the New Kingdom and later have been uncovered. These show considerable wear, thought to be too great for occasional use at festivals, and are therefore thought to have been used by professional performers, or given out for rent.



Modern scholars such as James Romano claim that in its earliest inception Bes was a representation of a lion rearing up on its hind legs.[1] After the Third Intermediate Period, Bes is often seen as just the head or the face, often worn as amulets.


Bes is the god of families, newborn babies, pregnant women.

Why would a man be in charge of those? Unless he was originally a she aka the Mother Goddess. Now this brings us to Attis and the Galli. The Galli were male priests of Cybele that castrated themselves. A reversal of what had happened to the great Mother? She had become a he (and a demon in the process) due to the new religion. Maybe that is the reason for the Galli doing what they do?

Galli wiki

The priest of Rhea, when taking shelter from the winter snow-storm he entered the lonely cave, had just wiped the snow off his hair, when following on his steps came a lion, devourer of cattle, into the hollow way. But he with outspread hand beat the great tambour he held and the whole cave rang with the sound. Nor did that woodland beast dare to support the holy boom of Cybele, but rushed straight up the forest-clad hill, in dread of the half-girlish servant of the goddess, who hath dedicated to her these robes and this his yellow hair.

Greek Anthology, Book VI, 217


Sort of like the Samson story, the Lion being a main figure of Cybele of course.



Medusa


Humbaba


Bes


Qadesh, Ishtar, Hathor, Medusa, Humbaba, Bes all have something else in common. They are facing forward.

Habhab being written as hidden would also make sense if the goddess was being hidden away, as what happened after the Deuteronomic purge when the Asherah and her symbols were banished from the land. Also see the story of the rape of Dinah by Shechem and the protection of her by her brothers covering her this would be hiding, like behind a veil, as in the veils of the temple (see the qadesh stele as the temple, also Eliaphis Levi's interpretation of this story). Dinah is raped by Shechem, and then wants to marry her. Her brothers say no unless all the men of Shechem are circumcised. They agree, then Simeon and Levi (the priests) go and kill all the men while they are hurting from getting disfigured. Shechem is the chief city of Resheph btw. Medusa was raped by Poseidon.

Ok hope that all makes sense. I don't really know exactly what to make of it but there are certainly a ton of connections there. I didn't even go into the blood of Medusa being used by Asclepius to heal, but I do have a thread about the cult of the bronze serpent, and Asclepius, aka Eshmun (Eshmun had 7 brothers who were dwarves, like Bes?) Eshmun being the chief deity of Sidon, where we would find the cedar forest



posted on Dec, 8 2016 @ 01:30 PM
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a reply to: zardust

I ran out of room, but In Galatians Paul tells the Judaizers that want to circumcise still that they should just castrate themselves. He also says that dressing like a woman is wrong. This may be in response to Christians following the cult of Cybele, and way of the Galli.



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