Chinese Claim New Technology (Based on Quantum Entanglement) Renders Stealth Useless

a reply to: intelgurl

That's a wrong interpretation. Comment to the outside world especially via internet disclosure is so tightly controlled that Chinese do not allow disclosure unless they have achieved what they claim. Yo seem to ignore the point that this Quantum system is already in operation with the Micius satellite launched August 16, 2016.

On February 10, 2016 Quantum radar was used to track an F-22 flying over the South China Sea and China was very careful to leak that fact to let USA know it had been seen.

China uses disclosures judiciously to send diplomatic threats to the United States

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: sy.gunson

And the range at which it works isn't overly effective against stealth. They can, and will have launched weapons well before it detects them.

Negative [SNIP].

The AIM-120 on 8.0 GHz cannot detect the STEALTH Chengdu J-20 at that range. Conventional aircraft yes but the J-20 and J-31, no

In fact even against conventional visible targets the AIM-120 only has 48% reliability

a reply to: sy.gunson

Oh, so only air to air is stealth? And what about bombers hitting ground targets? Gee, those are stealth too, now aren't they. And they have weapons that are LO, with a range over 4x what the new radar that "renders stealth useless" can see.

As for detecting the J-20 and J-31, it's all about the angles. Neither one is VLO, or VVLO, and both are heavily optimized for frontal aspect, as with just about any stealth. But in their case, the other aspects are less stealthy than their counterparts.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I love an optimist who believes they can get a tail shot on a STEALTH opponent at 100 miles or even 100 kilometres for that matter?

Pray explain how, when even the AWACS can't see a J-31 or J-20 at the ranges you are are talking?
The AN/APG-77 will only detect 0.0001 m2 RCS at 12 nautical miles.



Even from the tail aspect for the AN/APG-77 a J-20 has an RCS of 0.005 m2 (same as F-35 Lightning II head on) which is still half the size of a bird. The AN/APG-77 will only pick up this RCS at 24 nautical miles.

***SNIP*** Bombers will not get through a screen of Su-35 aircraft with IRBIS-E radar which can detect STEALTH preceded by J-20 with Photon Quantum radar. Nor for that matter will the B-2 Bomber remain undetected from space. China has already fielded Quantum radar in the Micius Satellite launched in August 2016. Where exactly do you think this satellite is watching?

Yes RCS does change with aspect but nowhere on the J-31 or J-20 does the RCS exceed the J-35's Radar Cross Section. I think you are grasping at straws [SNIP].

If the F-22 can't detect the J-20 at ranges more than 12nm - 24nm dependent upon aspect, but the J-20 can spot the the F-22 first at 54nm at any aspect, then the J-20 will get first shot and get first kill.

Mod Note: Leave the insults out.

a reply to: sy.gunson

And you call ME an optimist? Jesus, is there anything the Chinese CAN'T do according to you?

The IRBIS-E can detect stealth at extremely short range, just like most radars. It can pick up an F-22, or similar RCS target, at 15-20 miles, and a VLO target at similar ranges to your quantum radar. The new stealth designs have RCS smaller than the F-22. So tell me again how they're going to stop something with a tiny RCS, when they can't see it until they're on top of it.

As for the J-20 RCS, no one knows WHAT it really is, as the Chinese aren't saying. But somehow you do? And, in their first try at stealth, they manage to get it absolutely perfect, and better than anything else flying, anywhere in the world? Wow, that's absolutely amazing. They must have the most incredible engineers anywhere.

I also find it amusing how the Chinese will manage to have a perfect record of keeping the stealthiest part of their planes to the US or Allied forces, and the Allies will never once manage to get a shot off apparently, either air to air, or air to ground.

It always amazes how everyone else has managed to render US stealth platforms totally irrelevant, while managing to make their own stealth platforms so amazing that no one else has any hope in hell of ever defeating them, thus rendering the US and her allies totally impotent.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Can you imagine if you had a nickle for every yah hoo that comes into these threads spitting sci-fi nonsense about how *insert evil ragime here* had single handed made stealth obsolete and was sooo much better than anything in the West?
Private island time.....

originally posted by: Sammamishman
a reply to: Zaphod58

Can you imagine if you had a nickle for every yah hoo that comes into these threads spitting sci-fi nonsense about how *insert evil ragime here* had single handed made stealth obsolete and was sooo much better than anything in the West?
Private island time.....

Come on... you can confide in me.

The truth is you actually don't understand it or how it works so sneering contempt is your way to pretend that you are somehow still superior?

originally posted by: Imperium Americana
a reply to: BigTrain

Oh good thing we patented it 11 years ago...US 7375802

Well actually YOU didn't patent it and neither did Lockheed Martin.

This was what they claimed in their patent for it's use:

"entangled quantum particles," Lockheed's would-be system, should allow its users to "visualise useful target details through background and/or camouflaging clutter, through plasma shrouds around hypersonic air vehicles, through the layers of concealment hiding underground facilities, [and find] IEDs [improvised explosive devices], mines and other threats--all while operating from an airborne platform."

Poor suckers forgot to mention radar, but they did mention the ability to observe concealed underground facilities. No doubt that is what the Chinese Micius satellite is busy doing right now. Checking out all of NATO's underground complexes.

a reply to: sy.gunson

No, it's more like, you overestimate what it's capable of doing currently, and seem to think that everyone else's stealth is the most amazing thing ever built, while the US stealth is suddenly rendered irrelevant and useless.

a reply to: sy.gunson

Where is the proof they tracked an F-22, also, would flight radar or other apps not also track them if they are squawking in a non combat zone full of civ traffic on a pre planned flight path?

a reply to: Forensick

The only way to know what it can truly do against a stealth aircraft is to track one that is in full "combat mode", with all systems activated, and trying to hide from radar. Which only happens in a combat zone. They're not allowed to activate all systems, even with other US aircraft flying around, and no one else nearby. They're only allowed to use them in simulators or full up operational tests, with just them and what they're testing against around outside actual combat. That's true for the US, and it will be true for other nations as well. You never know when something might be around that can suck in an electron or two that gives something away.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: sy.gunson

And you call ME an optimist? Jesus, is there anything the Chinese CAN'T do according to you?

Yeah.... they don't seem able to waste $17 billion on a Stealth fighter that can't dogfight. Try as hard as they might they have failed to cock up quite as spectacularly as the F-35.

The IRBIS-E can detect stealth at extremely short range, just like most radars. It can pick up an F-22, or similar RCS target, at 15-20 miles

An Su-35 with PESA Irbis-E has an 8 dB advantage in channel budgetover the AN/APG-77 so that it can detect an F-22 Raptor at 35nm

As for the J-20 RCS, no one knows WHAT it really is, as the Chinese aren't saying.

The J-20 Radar Cross section has already been modeled in Australia by Dr Michael J Pelosi, MBA, MPA for the Defense Science Technology Group. SNIP

But somehow you do? And, in their first try at stealth, they manage to get it absolutely perfect, and better than anything else flying, anywhere in the world? Wow, that's absolutely amazing. They must have the most incredible engineers anywhere.

SNIP they don't use an applied RAM surface that washes off in the rain.

I also find it amusing how the Chinese will manage to have a perfect record of keeping the stealthiest part of their planes to the US or Allied forces, and the Allies will never once manage to get a shot off apparently, either air to air, or air to ground.

Perhaps you need to ask them how they tracked an F-22 Raptor over the South China Sea on February 10, 2016?
In air combat the doctrine is See First, Shoot First, Kill First. If China has a radar that sees an F-22 at 54nm and the F-22 has a radar that see's the J-20 at 12nm, then guess what?

It always amazes how everyone else has managed to render US stealth platforms totally irrelevant, while managing to make their own stealth platforms so amazing that no one else has any hope in hell of ever defeating them, thus rendering the US and her allies totally impotent.

***SNIP*** Lockheed martin got that covered with the F-35

a reply to: Forensick

China published the fact the very next day through news reports

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Forensick

The only way to know what it can truly do against a stealth aircraft is to track one that is in full "combat mode", with all systems activated, and trying to hide from radar. Which only happens in a combat zone. They're not allowed to activate all systems, even with other US aircraft flying around, and no one else nearby. They're only allowed to use them in simulators or full up operational tests, with just them and what they're testing against around outside actual combat. That's true for the US, and it will be true for other nations as well. You never know when something might be around that can suck in an electron or two that gives something away.

Oh yeah and you want us to believe that an F-22 just happened to be on a casual training flight over the South China sea during tensions between China and USA with the USS Carl Vinson steaming towards China?

***SNIP***

originally posted by: sy.gunson
Yeah.... they don't seem able to waste $17 billion on a Stealth fighter that can't dogfight. Try as hard as they might they have failed to cock up quite as spectacularly as the F-35.

And yet that F-35 that can't dogfight just performed spectacularly at Red Flag, the most realistic combat exercise anywhere in the world. Oh wait, since it's not Chinese, that exercise is BS.

An Su-35 with PESA Irbis-E has an 8 dB advantage in channel budgetover the AN/APG-77 so that it can detect an F-22 Raptor at 35nm

Which still proves my point. That range is almost nothing when talking about air to air, considering the Su-35 isn't stealthy, and will easily be detected by anything with radar.

The J-20 Radar Cross section has already been modeled in Australia by Dr Michael J Pelosi, MBA, MPA for the Defense Science Technology Group. SNIP

It's been modeled. A model doesn't make it reality. It's what their best prediction of what the RCS is, based on pictures of the aircraft.

SNIP they don't use an applied RAM surface that washes off in the rain.

Neither does the US. They had an issue with one type of RAM coating that has since been fixed.

Perhaps you need to ask them how they tracked an F-22 Raptor over the South China Sea on February 10, 2016?
In air combat the doctrine is See First, Shoot First, Kill First. If China has a radar that sees an F-22 at 54nm and the F-22 has a radar that see's the J-20 at 12nm, then guess what?

You mean how they tracked an F-22 that wasn't doing everything possible to hide from an enemy radar system, and was flying in an exercise with South Korea?

a reply to: sy.gunson

They were flying to and from Korea, and during a prescheduled exercise with the RoKAF. The exercise was held in March, and the F-22s arrived in the area in February to do dog and pony and familiarization in the area. The Carl Vinson was also part of the exercises.

Last I checked, we aren't at war with China, and weren't then either, so there was no reason for the F-22 to be flying around the area using their full up systems, to be used only in time of war.

SEOUL, Feb. 14 (Yonhap) -- The United States will send its strategic assets to a joint military exercise with South Korea next month as North Korea has escalated tensions with its latest missile launch, military officials said Tuesday.

"The two sides have agreed to send such weapons as the F-22 stealth fighter and a nuclear-powered submarine to the Key Resolve and Foal Eagle exercises in March," a defense official familiar with the matter told Yonhap News Agency.

Other assets expected to join the annual drill include the USS Carl Vinson aircraft carrier, as well as the B-1B and B-52 bombers. The Carl Vinson made a port call in Guam on Friday in what could be a preparation to join the drill.

english.yonhapnews.co.kr...

If you want to believe otherwise, feel free. I'll stick with the reality.

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What kinda of seeker is the chinese missile likely to have ir ,optical or some sorta signal or beam sending telemetry from aggressor to missile?

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Terminal guidance will be an active radar seeker, with a datalink from either the launcher aircraft or the sensor aircraft.

a reply to: sy.gunson

Why do you want to send in something behind enemy radar to do fight that's just atupid. In fact sending in an aircraft to dog fight just shows a complete failure of your stealth. Any yrhreat should be cleared before they knew you were there.