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We Stopped Beleiving In Witches, When's The Bibles Turn?

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posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 11:07 AM
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Sorry to inform you, but you need to check with the Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, and the Handbook of Denominations. Both have declared that wicca is considered a cult in America.

And you need to research federal law and court decisions!

The Civil Rights Act of 1964: To be a bona fide religious belief entitled to protection under either the First Amendment or Title VII, a belief must be sincerely held, and within the believer's own scheme of things religious.

Subsequent State Decisions
Georgia: Roberts v. Ravenwood Church of Wicca (1982)] and Virginia: Dettmer v Landon (1985) -- Wicca is clearly a religion for First Amendment purposes.

Subsequent Federal Decisions
Fourth Circuit Federal Appeals Court -- We agree with the District Court that the doctrine taught by the Church of Wicca is a religion.


Your Witchery has no place around a man of God

Then take your toys and go home. Your bigotry has no place around anyone.


It gets quite rediculous when you twist and pervert the doctrines of my faith to further your arguement.

I have neither twisted nor perverted any Christian doctrine. The biblical Jesus preached love and tolerance, not bigotry and hatred. I was raised and confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church and know whereof I speak.

BTW, you really should read the "Jesus Conspiracy" thread.
*stirs potatoes*




posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 11:31 AM
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The biblical Jesus preached love and tolerance, not bigotry and hatred. I was raised and confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church and know whereof I speak.


Jesus did not teach tolerance. He tought love. He clearly said hate not the sinner, but hate the sin. He commands that I love my neighbor as myself. He never commands that I like my neighbor. There is a distinct difference between like and love. I can love you and yet not like you. You call me a biggot because my opinion is different than yours? Your's is different than mine,,,, what does that make you? You need to read a Bible dude.
A court case cannot determine religion. Separation of Church and state,,,, remember? Our government cannot distinguish what is religion and what is not. The country was founded on Christian principles and is slowly moving away from them. My opinion is mine, yours is yours, don't call me names and I will not you. Believe me I have a few in mind.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by deesw
Jesus did not teach tolerance.

Didn't he say 'turn the other cheek' or have you ignored that? He has promoted it many times. You seem to practice what he preached only when it's convenient.

You call me a biggot because my opinion is different than yours?

Here we go again..
And you were doing so well too! You even started with the satanists crap again. By linking the devil and witchcraft you are sugesting that all witches are evil and therefore making biggoted judgments on their morality. This ignorance caused many people to be burnt at the stake not too long ago.. good thing people like you are not in power.. well.


Now go be a good boy and sit in the corner for ten minutes.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by riley
Could you please provide a source on these many hoaxes?


I will give you a list of what I am referring to. I will leave it to you to research so that you don't have to question my sources.

Ramapithecus

Australopithecines

Peking Man

Java Man

Heidelberg Man

Piltdown Man

Neanderthal

Cro- Magnon

All have been shown to be either outright hoaxes or fully human (Nanderthal) or fully ape (Ramapithecus).



I can provide many to back my conclusions that have credibility [and not creationalist sites.. if it's genuine science you should find real evidence to support your own ideas].


FYI there are plenty of real and credible scientists who are creationists. Science is not the exclusive realm of evolutionist thought.


I have no problem knowing that human beings evolved from pond scum.


You can believe that but without being there I wonder how it is you know.


I think it is amazing that life can achieve so much.. and I respect the potential of pond scum. I suspect you probably see it as a negative thing?


I would think it a negative thing as it would relegate all human thought to fixed meaningless chemical processes.


You don't want to be related to pond scum! Fair enough. Ego.


That's right, I do want my granddaddy to be pond scum. I don't want you to be related to it either. I have to much love for my brothers and sisters to suggest such and absurd possibility.



Neandethols are not human beings either.. they were a subspecies.. yet were evolved enough to have their own culture.


Neanderthals were fully human and our genetic superiors. Do you believe that the any of the different "races" of man alive today are subspecies?



I already see the futility in discussing this with you [discussed before on repeat] but this topic is relevant to this thread.


At least you are not completely blinded.


When are we going to stop believing in the bible?


Well since you already don't believe in it we already have.


When science disproves all it's silly assertions it will be viewed as just a collection of moral guidlines and strange metephores from a time when people didn't know the difference between fantasy and reality.


Science will never disprove the Bible because true science is in perfect harmony with creation. The earliest parts of the Bible are from a time when humans were far for intelligent than modern man in it's degraded state.


God or not the term is often used in place of 'I don't know'. Aparently people still don't want to know.


Our father provided information in scripture that we could not gather on our own. For science he gave us a mind capable of understanding the world using it.


Steve



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 11:59 AM
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I have no problem knowing that human beings evolved from pond scum.

I would have to make a slight modification to this statement:
I have no problem knowing thatSOME human beings evolved from pond scum, and SOME didn't evolve at all they are still pond scum, LTWS.




A court case cannot determine religion. Separation of Church and state,

sorry but the state and federal Govt. can establish what constitutes a recognized religion. what they cannot do is establish an official or "state religion.
this country was founded on the principal that a persons beliefs were their own,
and they were free to practice them as long as they didnot infringe on anothers right to do the same.

[edit on 6-2-2005 by stalkingwolf]



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 12:16 PM
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this country was founded on the principal that a persons beliefs were their own


I'd love to see the crayon worshiping, flower peddling school that you went to that tought you that. Our founding fathers wished to worship GOD without the persecution of the Roman Catholic Church. They did not settle this country to worship bugs, and nature, and clouds and the moon or sun, but rather GOD. I went to public schools all my life with the exception of first, second, and third grade, and that is what I was tought in school, and as well as in Church.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 12:32 PM
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Deesw, you LOSE! You appear to be the only person who believes like you do, and it is sad.

Also, those names that were listed, how were they proven false? One or two maybe mutated ape, but false? Nice, tell everyone else to use links, so when they give them to you you debunk the links because you didn't get them, so they are wrong. Or maybe you have a good idea, let the guy find his own links so he can't say your links are bias/wrong. Either you are a wimp or a genisus.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 12:34 PM
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double post

[edit on 2/6/0505 by sntx]



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 12:34 PM
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Also, those names that were listed, how were they proven false? One or two maybe mutated ape, but false? Nice, tell everyone else to use links, so when they give them to you you debunk the links because you didn't get them, so they are wrong. Or maybe you have a good idea, let the guy find his own links so he can't say your links are bias/wrong. Either you are a wimp or a genisus.



I'm just encouraging people to do their own research. I thought that what was this site was all about. I posted my conclusions based on the research I have done on the subject. I am not sure what a genisus is but as far as I know of the two I am only a wimp.

[edit on 2/6/0505 by sntx]



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 12:38 PM
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Also, here are links to sites that say something completely dif. then All are false, monkeys, whatever.

www.iscid.org...
www.clarku.edu...
www.mnh.si.edu...
www.mnh.si.edu...
www.mnh.si.edu...
whc.unesco.org...
www.modernhumanorigins.com...
www.bartleby.com...
www.encyclopedia.com/html/E/E-R1amapith.asp
www.infoplease.com/ce6/society/A0841053.html
www.cartage.org.lb...
dsc.discovery.com...

Edit. And it is good to have people do their own research, lets them expand their mind on their own, this way they can't argue your link came from the ICR.(Institute of Creation Research headed by Doctor Gish, a guy who wants creation taught as fact in PUBLIC schools, that the Grand Canyon was created by the world flood, and that dinosaur fossils were put on Earth by satan to test the faithful)

Also, actually found one of those names, like you said, was false. SO what? 1 out of 8 isn't to bad. skepdic.com/piltdown.html Anyways, google says the others I have searched for are real. Also, if you do your own google search, do not use anything that has anything to do with Doctor Gish. As said, this guy believes and wants PUBLIC schools to teach that dinosaur fossils were put here by satan. If you use anything that even has his name in it you will be laughed at.(this guy is nuts, loco, crazy even)

[edit on 6-2-2005 by James the Lesser]



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 12:56 PM
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I am not very familiar with ICR but I believe their position on the fossil record is that it is mainly the result of rapid sedimentation. I'm sorry, I would probably be able to respond to more of your post if it wasn’t mostly gibberish.

Steve



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 01:01 PM
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Gibberish? Links that show you are wrong, except for piltdown man, which most people know about anyways. So your statement that all are monkeys or hoaxes falls flat, except for piltdown man. And ICR is nuts, they want Satan put dinosaur fossils on Earth to test the faithful taught in PUBLIC schools as fact, along with Grnad Canyon made by Noah flood. Which everyone else who doesn't have their head shoved up their ass knows is impossible. The Grand Canyon is made up of hard rock, and even a flood wouldn't do that in 40days. Also, if it was world flood, all of the canyon would have been flooded, not just some of it cutting a canyon in the rock, but all of it, so all of it would have eroded away, not just some making a canyon.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 01:16 PM
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Gibberish? Links that show you are wrong, except for piltdown man, which most people know about anyways. So your statement that all are monkeys or hoaxes falls flat, except for piltdown man. And


Dude, whatever. One day the coins will fall from your eyes.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by James the Lesser
Gibberish? Links that show you are wrong, except for piltdown man, which most people know about anyways. So your statement that all are monkeys or hoaxes falls flat, except for piltdown man.


So your google search provided you with links that contradict my statement. Ok, but that's not exactly what I would call good research.


And ICR is nuts, they want Satan put dinosaur fossils on Earth to test the faithful taught in PUBLIC schools as fact, along with Grnad Canyon made by Noah flood.


The problem probably lies with my ability to understand, but this is an example of the gibberish I mentioned.


Which everyone else who doesn't have their head shoved up their ass knows is impossible.


This is enlightening.


The Grand Canyon is made up of hard rock, and even a flood wouldn't do that in 40days.


You might want to do some more research regarding the duration of the flood.


Also, if it was world flood, all of the canyon would have been flooded, not just some of it cutting a canyon in the rock, but all of it, so all of it would have eroded away, not just some making a canyon.


I am not sure why the flood suddenly entered the picture, but it sounds like you have done some research on hydrological effects on geology. Or did you just do a google search?

Steve



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 01:36 PM
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PROVE IT
I love that. With 'proof' there is no need for belief. Wouldn't it be easy if God just popped down (or up) and said, 'O.K., here I am.'

No need for belief. No need for religion or free will. No need to think. Just do exactly what you are told and devolve.

The Good Samaratan provides an example of caring for others.
Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luk 10:37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
That isn't hard to follow. Even a child 'gets it.'

Herein lay the problem. Children accept what is. Sure they question and delve to understand but that does not diminish their ability to accept.

Very few children grasp electricity, yet when shown the harm electricity can produce when misused they have no difficulty understanding. Likewise, these same children understand some of the positive abilities of electricity, again without understanding why.

To those that minutely question this or that in Christianity I say that even if all were explained to you the meaning would still be lost. The beauty in Christ is not what is printed by some publishing company, it is the message he brought.

Flick a light switch in your mind.

Jesus asked God to forgive those that crucified him because 'they do not know what they do.'

Ignorance will be forgiven. To know better and still stick you finger into the socket, well - - -. Ask a child.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by deesw



this country was founded on the principal that a persons beliefs were their own


I'd love to see the crayon worshiping, flower peddling school that you went to that tought you that. Our founding fathers wished to worship GOD without the persecution of the Roman Catholic Church. They did not settle this country to worship bugs, and nature, and clouds and the moon or sun, but rather GOD. I went to public schools all my life with the exception of first, second, and third grade, and that is what I was tought in school, and as well as in Church.


It is true that the "founding fathers" wished to worship God without the persecution of the Roman Catholic Church. However, that is not the reason they founded the United States. The United States was founded because the "founding fathers" got tired of putting up with what were viewed as unfair laws from England.

I keep putting founding fathers in quotation marks because you seem to be confusing two different time periods, and with them, two groups of people. The first European immagrants founded collonies in order to get away from religious persecution. The founders of the US constitution, in respect to religion, created a country based on the principal that no person should have to hide for fear of legal action on account of their religion.


Also, I have noticed many people connecting witchcraft and Satanism. These beliefs are very much different. The two are often confused because of the similarities in APPEARANCE (and little else) between the spirit Pan and the spirit Satan.

Someone on this board also made a misguided connection that because witches do not believe in Satan that they do not believe in a higher diety. This is not true. Witches do believe in a higher diety.

To the sender of the above mentioned comment: If you are going to insult people based on thier beliefs, at least take the time to find out what those beliefs are instead of relying on steriotypical and biased information that you have recieved through an unreliable network of information. You might save yourself some future embarrassment.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by daniel191159
The first European immagrants founded collonies in order to get away from religious persecution.

Not 'exactly' right.

We don't know what the first European settlements were. Presuming there were some prior to Columbus.

Columbus and Spanish settlements had ZERO relevance to escaping religious persecution. The first English settlement was mercantile. Jamestown claimed to be the first representative (European style) government known to exist in the New World.

This was in 1609. the Spanish were in the New World with established colonies more than a hundred years by then.

The Pilgrim/Puritains established what (arguably) was the beginning of what later became the United States.
    Puritains
    Naturally, the primary text for later interpreters would be the Mayflower Compact, which Bradford gives:

    In the name of God, Amen. We whose names are underwriten, by the loyall subjects of our dread soveraigne Lord, King James, by the grace of God, of Great Britaine, Franc, and Ireland king, defender of the faith, etc.

    Haveing undertaken, for the glorie of God, and advancemente of the Christian faith, and honour of our king and countrie, a voyage to plant the first colonie in the Northerne parts of Virginia, doe by these presents solemnly and mutually in the presence of God, and one another, covenant and combine our selves togeather into a civill body politick, for our better ordering and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by vertue hereof to enacte, constitute and frame shuch just and equall lawes, ordinances, acts, constitutions, and offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meete and convenient for the generall good of the Colonie, unto which we promise all due submission and obedience. In witnes whereof we have hereunder subscribed our names at Cap-Codd the .11. of November, in the year of the raigne of our soveraigne lord, King James, of England, France, and Ireland, the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fiftie-fourth. Anno Dom. 1620

Back to the thread:
For anyone to state (with finality) that the term/word witch has no basis in Christianity is narrow at best.

From the postings (on this board) it seems there are those that believe that witch has only one meaning and that the meaning is what is defined by Wicca. This is of course incorrect. The term (Witch) has a long and storied past.

The starter of this thread was wrong- we never stopped believing in witches. Wiccans have their witch while others have theirs.
.

.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 02:54 PM
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No, geology class in HS teaches you that while water can erode rock, but the grand canyone took longer then the flood, about a million or so longer.

Also, it isn't gibberish, Doctor Gish lead a crusade through states trying to get creation, stan fossil thing, and grand canyon thing taught in PUBLIC schools as science. He finally won in a Georgia county, but later was over turned by the higher court. The ICR is lead by nuts and fruit cakes, anything from them is tainted with ignorance. Man, I like this topic, have real people like you to argue with, hell of alot better then some topics where everyone just agrees with me and nothing new is done. Of course, get some who taint this topic with religous ignorance, but hey, as long as you are here it will stay a good topic.

Edit:Sntx has just been voted for WATS for actually giving a good arguement, not religous ignorance or throwing a fit when proven wrong/given things that show a statement is wrong.(Well, you were right with piltdown, but most know that was a fake)

[edit on 6-2-2005 by James the Lesser]



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 03:48 PM
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get some who taint this topic with religous ignorance, but hey, as long as you are here it will stay a good topic.


So anyone who has a Christian opinion is Ignorant? Buddy, I guarantee that Christians feel the same about you. Why is it that when someone agrees with you it's all good, but when we strongly disagree with you we are ignorant and biggots? Sounds like someone has social issues !



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 04:13 PM
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That shall only comes when those who believe the Word of God have been raptured and none are left to hold it and keep it alive.



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