Why are feminists voting for Hillary ?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: ksiezyc
a reply to: SaturnFX

Why do people spew such BS claims?


I have yet to meet someone legible to vote that makes that true.

If You’re a Woman, You Should Vote for Hillary Clinton for President
HuffPo backing up my bs claim I guess

damn facts....

That's from a blog - - its one person's opinion.

Giana Pacinelli - - Freelance writer and blogger

HUFF POST is like a bulletin board - - with guest writers who do opinion pieces.

I was answering someone who said its bs, nobody thinks like that, etc.
I can of course post a impressive amount of links of people who think like this, to include Oprah, the voices for hillary website saying put her there because..equality, etc.

is there some official CNN type thing saying vote for boobs? no..of course not. I wasn't saying there was. I was showing that people are however voting for hillary due to genitals..which is what was in question

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: ksiezyc
a reply to: SaturnFX

Why do people spew such BS claims?


I have yet to meet someone legible to vote that makes that true.

If You’re a Woman, You Should Vote for Hillary Clinton for President
HuffPo backing up my bs claim I guess

damn facts....

That's from a blog - - its one person's opinion.

Giana Pacinelli - - Freelance writer and blogger

HUFF POST is like a bulletin board - - with guest writers who do opinion pieces.

I was answering someone who said its bs, nobody thinks like that, etc.
I can of course post a impressive amount of links of people who think like this, to include Oprah, the voices for hillary website saying put her there because..equality, etc.

is there some official CNN type thing saying vote for boobs? no..of course not. I wasn't saying there was. I was showing that people are however voting for hillary due to genitals..which is what was in question

I hope they appreciate your answer.

I hope they appreciate my input.

originally posted by: Annee

Do you see Trump in anything I support?

Lol if you want to be convinced to vote Trump you're going to have to ask someone who supports him. I was just making a comment about the problems I see with Hillary's globalist policies vs. increasing America's competitive level financially, where I think Trump tackles it more directly by ending NAFTA with Mexico.

Trump isn't actually that bad on LGBT stuff (especially if you like long golf putters). Other than that it's mostly him saying he will "consider [insert anti-lgbt rhetoric here to get more GOP votes]". I don't imagine he is going to pour his time in office into appealing LGBT legislation.

Gender stuff I'm not entirely clear about, and not sure why it pretends to be a huge issue in this hemisphere. If you are for gender equality, though, be aware that Hillary supports the proposal of that Equal Pay thing which already exists so... there's a waste of time and paper based on no legitimate data. Anything above the current situation in terms of womens' pay would warrant women to be making more than men per hour because of that odd figure that nobody talks about where women work 36 hours a week on average to a man's 43 "for the same job".

Race isn't even really talked about much either, it's his language during his expression of his views on immigration that makes people find the man himself racist; doesn't really have anything to do with his policy.

a reply to: SaturnFX

Dear SaturnFX,

I don't know if you know this but, a woman is far more than boobs and a vagina. I hope you do know this, though. In fact, I think you do, but you are trying to win a point in the battle of the sexes by reducing Clinton to her body parts and chromosomes.

She is a mother and grandmother. I'm sorry but that is a different experience than being a father.

She has experienced all the "Mad Men" days when men treated women like inferior beings - she knows what sexism is directly. Men have fought having women in the workplace, and Trump still thinks its a bad idea! Women can relate to that as a shared experience. We ALL have experiences like that with men. Sorry, but it still happens!!!

A woman brings a different kind of brain (usually) than men. A woman's brain is far more interconnected, and is more willing to do the work of "systems" thinking than men are, though that is also a generalization, and I mean no offense by it at all to men. The brain thing is kind of complementary. Men compartmentalize. When there is an issue, they deal with that immediate issue and don't tend to connect it to other issues as much. The thinking is more linear as far as causality (A happened which caused B. B is undesirable. To fix B, stop A.) Systems causality looks at all the ways a problem interconnects with other problems and creates patterns, attempting to go deeper into the roots of an issue (B is a problem. A is connected to that problem. Why did A happen? A is connected to C, D, E, F and G. In order to prevent B, or lessen its occurrence, C, D, E, F and G must be addressed as causal issues to B, which will then stop A from happening. ETA: And C is caused by Z, Y, X...D by Z, W and T, E is caused by Y and, wow, Y is caused in part by Z! F is caused by D and Z, and G is an outlier which is more of a general cultural phenomenon. So... looks like Z is essential to stopping B! Let's start there)

It also relates to seeing patterns in, say, a relationship, where a man and woman are arguing about him being late for an appointment, let's say.

He says: "I was late because I had to finish my project before I could leave, and then traffic got bad."
She says: " Why did you wait to the last minute to do the project? This appointment was really important, like the time you were late to the dinner date and the time you were late to pick me up from the doctor and the time you were late for our date..."
He says: "What? All those things were different!"
She says: "It's a pattern! Don't you see it? I think the problem is you don't plan ahead and are always rushed, and sometimes it works out so you aren't late, but the times you are it's because you've procrastinated at work! And you put work before me!"
He says: "Look, relax already. Those other times had different reasons! Why are you even bringing them up??? Why are you talking about me putting work before you? I hate it when you do that!!! I make the most money here, sweetheart, I can't just slack on my job!!" [this is fictional, btw I've never had this conversation!!]

Besides that, what other President has ever been all of these things:
1. A Lawyer who worked for the Children's Defense Fund on children's and women's issues instead of taking a fancy high-paying job out of Law School.
2. First Spouse of a State Governor & First Spouse of a POTUS
3. A Senator
4. Secretary of State
And that's just part of her resume. She's been scrutinized and attacked in public life for, what, 40 years now? She withstood attack dog Bossie, who lied and contorted evidence to invent scandals against her and Bill. I think standing up to bullying (and to Putin) is a good thing on her resume too.

Anyway. You go on thinking it's about the boobs and vag if you like...

originally posted by: DeadFoot

originally posted by: Annee

Do you see Trump in anything I support?

Lol if you want to be convinced to vote Trump you're going to have to ask someone who supports him. I was just making a comment about the problems I see with Hillary's globalist policies vs. increasing America's competitive level financially, where I think Trump tackles it more directly by ending NAFTA with Mexico.

HA HA

When I give that same answer and question "Do you see Trump in anything I stated" to a Trump supporter - - they never respond back.

Probably will now, that I said that LOL

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: SaturnFX
And that's just part of her resume.

Yup.

The rest of it is nothing short of horrifying.

originally posted by: DeadFoot

Trump isn't actually that bad on LGBT stuff (especially if you like long golf putters

).

Funny

Trump is about power and control. The Fundamental Christian Lobby is very strong in power and control.

IMO - - that's the direction Trump will go. Not because he cares, but for the power and control.

a reply to: AboveBoard

Thanks for that post. So true.

I'm the same age as Hillary.

I know what its like. Not on the same level as Hillary, but still had my experiences.

originally posted by: DeadFoot

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: SaturnFX
And that's just part of her resume.

Yup.

The rest of it is nothing short of horrifying.

*sigh*

You do know that, just like the OP's memes, the VAST majority of the "horror" is a lie, right? It was part of the classic Republican play-book game called "let's attack the Clintons as a means of trying to stop his Presidency using public funds!!" And now it's all about preventing her Presidency. That's REALLY what Benghazi was all about, if you look at actual history of other Secretaries of State, and what happened during the time they held office.

They've done a GREAT job of muddying the waters to the point of the ridiculous. Are there issues? Yes. Is she a perfect human? No. Is she a criminal? Well, no. Unless you listen to Breitbart, I mean, TRUMP NEWS and Alex Jones and Mr. "Alter the facts to fit my fiction" Bossie.

I would like to talk about her real flaws, not all this sensationalist made-up crap, but hey, that's all that seems to be happening.

originally posted by: AboveBoard
I would like to talk about her real flaws, not all this sensationalist made-up crap, but hey, that's all that seems to be happening.

Ok; let's keep it simple, then.

What is her motive to lie so much?

originally posted by: Annee
You're not a woman, are you.

As far as men hitting women - - women tend to (primarily) be smaller, with less muscle mass then men.

That would be a bully - - sex is not the issue.

Would I condone a female body builder smacking around a smaller man? Hell no. That's bully behavior - - sex has nothing to do with it.

I don't see how my gender is important here, but yeah i'm a guy.
I only mention the stigma thing because it illustrates uncomfortably what true equality is however as you agree I guess there's no problem.

Feminism being outdated is probably the wrong term. I just think that forcing equality is a bad thing, it should always be the best person. And whilst this case doesn't have a best person I don't think gender will play an issue at all.

The fact that there's a good chance of a female prez and no one seems fussed is a good sign.

originally posted by: AboveBoard


She has experienced all the "Mad Men" days when men treated women like inferior beings - she knows what sexism is directly.

1) Hillary said during a speech in Iowa sexual-assault survivors have a “right to be believed.”, yet Hillary defends a man that raped a child.

2) Her husband is accused of rape many times, caught getting BJ's in the white house then lies about it, Hillary being the feminist she is says nothing about how despicable her husband is.

3) Hillary Clinton took millions from the Saudi's while the women over there are tortured daily, but she says nothing about that.

4) Hillary Clinton took millions from JP morgan, Chase and others back in 2007 crash, when they were tossing out women and children from homes Hillary did nothing.

This list goes on but I'm sure you get the point.

Here's the thing. Many feminists are NOT voting for Hillary. And then many are. The former group I totally respect, because they know that ostensibly feminism is NOT about just putting token women or minorities into power, especially if those candidates support or are even representative of oppressive systems, ranging from wall street ownership of government to our imperial foreign policy. The group of people who claim social justice or feminism and then ignore Hillary's record on big money in politics (white privilege and corruption) or evil neo-colonial foreign policy, are NOT real social justice activists.

1) Real social justice people or feminists: Fight for equality and not just putting in token minorities or women into positions of authority, but instead breaking down entire practices, systems, and policies that are oppressive to all people. It's not social justice nor feminism if a woman or an African American person becomes CEO of a corrupt, evil company. It's not feminism if a corrupt woman becomes the head of an incredibly corrupt system (the US military-industrial complex).

2) Fake social justice people or feminists: They have a very superficial understanding of social justice, only knowing the outer veneer of identity politics, and just wanting tokenism. They don't actually strive to break down oppressive systems of economics, military, public policy, etc, but instead want to inject token people of color or women into successful jobs and professions, whether or not they are qualified. It's not about real solutions but about a veneer, one that ends up harming everyone because it is a back end band aid solution and does not always put the most qualified person in a given situation in to a position (although often a given person of color or woman IS the most qualified).

2)

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: SaturnFX

Dear SaturnFX,

I don't know if you know this but, a woman is far more than boobs and a vagina.

Yep, I was addressing the people who are voting strictly due to her being a woman, no care about issues involving her scandals, her views, the philosophies behind the policies, etc.
I am not sure where the confusion began with you on this matter, but hopefully that resolves it.

She is a mother and grandmother. I'm sorry but that is a different experience than being a father.

I dont care. I have parents. we are discussing president of the united states.
If I was voting who my next parents would be...I would keep that in mind

She has experienced all the "Mad Men" days when men treated women like inferior beings - she knows what sexism is directly.

Her privileged life has never had an issue with any legal barrier, I assure you that.
As far as social sexism..meh, I am expected to conform to society norms..big deal. overcome other peoples expectations..or not. personal choice...no victims here, only complainers

Men have fought having women in the workplace,

more men fought for women..hense why it went from a fully male dominated society 100 years ago, to equality 50 years ago. Whats your point?

and Trump still thinks its a bad idea!

No he doesn't. how do you even type that and pretend to have a honest view on things. gross.
btw, I dislike Trump .000005% more than Clinton...and that gap is closing fast. You aren't winning any points trying to say Trump is Bad...I agree..he sucks, but not because of made up nonsense and lies.
He is bad for business.

Women can relate to that as a shared experience.

No, women cant. you can. plenty of others can. but women as a borg collective dont relate to any single thing. women are individuals, not a herd

A woman brings a different kind of brain (usually) than men.

No, they dont.
If they do, then lets look at data points of female verses male lead corporations..lets see long term trends....lets see if its a good idea to let women lead.
Yeah..lets not..how about saying, we all are unique and will be judged as individuals, not as a skintone, nor a gender...this isn't the 50s..we judge on merit now.

A woman's brain is far more interconnected,

Citation needed.

Anyway. You go on thinking it's about the boobs and vag if you like...

the rest was a commercial. was fully expecting to see a #ImWithHer and #Chillary hashtag in there.

But anyhow, I was specifically addressing single issue voters..single issue being gender as the main factor.

and given how much defense you gave her vag, seems you are very much on that train also...but also did some research on her qualifications (good for you). Vote who you want of course, and why you want. Know you are voting a woman into office that day by day more criminal activity is exposed, people being fired for discussing her health, and bodies being discovered who are potential threats to her. Thats your choice.

As I said earlier..some people would rather vote in a serial killer with good policys verses a wonderful person with terrible policys...it comes down to the policys.

I like Bill. will be nice to see him more often on the tube, so there is that.

I am curious if Meghan McCain is gonna run in the future..or perhaps Chelsea. They came off as more unification driven than the old guard.

a reply to: AboveBoard

Thank you! Brilliantly put!

Fifty years ago, it was still common to hear men say this silly phrase in public to women (or in private to their wives), "Now, don't you worry your pretty little head!" Women were assumed to be not as intelligent as men, not capable of solving problems on their own, or not capable of working in many fields/jobs that women nowadays take for granted as being open to anyone. That is backward by today's standards.

Unlike many other nations, the USA has never had a queen or female prime minister or president. Up until now, the ONLY choice we have ever had to lead the nation has been a choice between males. Man 1 or Man 2, and none having as impressive a resume.

Besides that, what other President has ever been all of these things: 1. A Lawyer who worked for the Children's Defense Fund on children's and women's issues instead of taking a fancy high-paying job out of Law School. 2. First Spouse of a State Governor & First Spouse of a POTUS 3. A Senator 4. Secretary of State And that's just part of her resume. She's been scrutinized and attacked in public life for, what, 40 years now? She withstood attack dog Bossie, who lied and contorted evidence to invent scandals against her and Bill. I think standing up to bullying (and to Putin) is a good thing on her resume too.

Fifty years from now, citizens will wonder why there was all this silly, backward talk in 2016 about female genitalia.

originally posted by: DeadFoot

originally posted by: AboveBoard
I would like to talk about her real flaws, not all this sensationalist made-up crap, but hey, that's all that seems to be happening.

Ok; let's keep it simple, then.

What is her motive to lie so much?

We would have to go through and dissect each statement you think are lies in order to see if they really are or not, because so much shade has been cast her way that its difficult to tell. A blanket statement like that is simply a trap I am not going to fall into this evening.

Personally, I do my absolute best to be honest, thus I chose the name "AboveBoard." I am not, however, privy to State Secrets, nor have I had a philandering husband, nor have I been in the public spotlight with people lying about me and looking at every moment for some little slip-up or some minor thing, or personal tragedy to blow into a massive "scandal."

So, yeah, I'm sure she has lied on occasion. I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in politics, or in business, who hasn't lied, at least on occasion. It would be naive to think otherwise, and I'm not naive. People lie all the time, which is unfortunate, but in politics it seems to be essential to "winning the game" and "covering your rather human mistakes."

The only time it is a problem is when you go all Nixon and they impeach you, apparently, so my question to you is this: why are her alleged lies worse than any other potential President or Secretary of State or Senator that has walked this earth?

That's assuming what you have been told she's said and done actually happened to begin with, of course, which is doubtful considering all the rampant mud slinging in an attempt to "get" her on "something." It's really quite desperate, you know, how much time and tax dollars have been spent on trying to bring her down to zero effect, other than, of course, the side benefit of making it LOOK like she's guilty of "something."

Now you get to point and say "Crooked Hillary!" and "Lock Her Up!!" because of all that sweet tax money the Republicans have invested in smearing her name, regardless of actual guilt. I realize that's not a popular thing to say on ATS. People here revel in believing the most base and unsubstantiated accusations, and are willing to gobble up the most twisted interpretations of events because, frankly, it feels right to do that, even if its factually wrong. Politics is an emotional art, not a factual one.

I know she isn't some sort of "Saint of Purity" and that she is a flawed human. I would not doubt for a moment that she has told a lie publicly for some reason that is hers to know. I would not doubt that real and justifiable criticism of her should be discussed as needed. Perhaps if people weren't so busy turning her into a cartoon SuperVillain we might be having substantive conversations on her weaknesses.

Now, I wonder, what is/are Trump's motives for lying so much, do you think?

Oh well. That's off topic though. Trump's lies, that is...

- AB

originally posted by: desert
a reply to: AboveBoard

Fifty years ago,

Fifty years ago in Hillary's blue collar sorority...

Times were hard.

They were "broke" -- "in debt", even.

Struggles.

Must have reminded her of being under sniper fire in Bosnia.

a reply to: AboveBoard

I am far more comfortable with people who lie toward a motive that I understand.

This woman lies about benign life experiences and it makes me think that she is actually mentally unstable.

a reply to: SaturnFX

uh oh...a male telling women how women think....this probably won't end well!

a reply to: SaturnFX

We are obviously not understanding one another. I don't have time now to post here anymore tonight, so my apologies on not getting back to you point-by-point.

I know my post was snarky, and I apologize for that. I felt yours was to begin with, so I was responding in kind, and my eyes were already rolling over the blatant lies in the OP. Perhaps I was mistaken at your intent in the post I responded to? In any case, its not your fault that I'm ready to pound my head into the wall. I need a break from the boards. Gotta go take care of kids, anyway.

Peace to you. I will think about your responses and see if I can get back to you later.

- AB