Here's the economic reality of the crackdown on undocumented workers

a reply to: DelMarvel

"Put simply the reality is: The population of undocumented immigrants is declining and at its lowest in a decade. U.S. born workers won't do the jobs. The agricultural industry is losing billions of dollars a year."



Link to PDF file on who actually owns the bulk of farms in the US

a reply to: reldra

Agreed, "free Market" econ 101 would dictate that wages would go up. Bet they won't though.

"Unskilled" labor but there was only 3 people that showed up. Raise the wages and keep these workers off perpetual social services. $$$$$$ is going to the top, not to the rank'nfile.


Oh the farmer is getting the shaft from the middleman, do 5 minutes of research about 1 cent raise for tomato
pickers. It's disgusting what big business is doing.

a reply to: chrismarco
Won't do the jobs for the $ (raise the wages and see what happens), free market only works one way, when wages and bene's decline.

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: reldra

it does matter. there shouldnt be any asterisks next to the word 'illegal'*

the argument of someone else does something others wouldnt which ipso facto makes it legal, wouldnt fly in any other legal aspect in a court of law.

i wouldnt be wrong to use any hyperbole to draw a parallel between an illegal immigrant and someone who commits another illegal activity because no one else would do it.

Well, there's a big difference between, say, holding up a Seven Eleven and working a job that a company wants you to do that no legal citizens will do.

That's why there's such a push to establish some kind of legal status for these workers.

a reply to: reldra

You are right and the jobs have been offered to out of work American American Citizens- By the American Farmworkers Union- 3 people applied.

If you offer a fair wage for the work you will get applicants. Until then it is going to continue to be a corrupt system that for some reason you support.

originally posted by: JaMeDoIt
Ooops...the answer is in the article. Spend the $3.1 billion to pay the workers a living wage. Why blame the american workers, or any worker for not wanting to work for starvation wages? Granted it is hard work...so pay a worker for hard work...these growers are brain dead or just greedy...the solution is in front of them but is it easier to let crops rot.

Sound easy...it is but the greedy bastard growers will let food rot rather than give up a dime of their profits. Good...let the food rot, no one should be exploited for the benefit of the growers.
Thank you...problem solved.
Cheers

Valid point. I will say that I strongly suspect there are jobs that are being done by Mexicans (legal or not) that most U.S. born citizens would not do for any price if there was any decent paying alternative and maybe even if there wasn't. Not just harvesting but in places like poultry plants as well.

Ag industry looks at the cost of automation vs illegals. Illegals are cheap because the ag boys are not paying overhead..SS, health, income tax, etc. but automation...a grape picking machine, an orange picker, etc are in the works, and will appear the instant the labor costs are greater than the machine costs. the key is automation of the hand to eye coordination...see a bunch of ripe grapes, pick it place it in bucket... and the military development (DARPA) of battlefield robots will eventually lead to the end of the price difference between robots and illegals.
And then what you gonna do, all you "undocumented worker" lovers, when they are abandoned in the allies behind your house???? Oh, i forgot, liminosine libs like hillary and bernie live in gated communities.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: reldra

You are right and the jobs have been offered to out of work American American Citizens- By the American Farmworkers Union- 3 people applied.

If you offer a fair wage for the work you will get applicants. Until then it is going to continue to be a corrupt system that for some reason you support.

I'm not arguing with you but just out of curiosity what would you say a fair wage is for this kind of work? Apparently the average pay is now over 11 dollars an hour.

a reply to: DelMarvel

I already knew this. I remember back in 2003 a farmer put up ads to work with him on his fields at a rate of 10 dollars per hour. And remember this was back before Obama care, and the 2008 market crash.

He advertised this job in the newspaper over 6 or 7 months near where I lived and got no responses.

So he turned to illegal immigrants who gladly accepted the job at 5.15 an hour.

So this story? Hah. No one wants to work in a field. They don't even want to use a broom. The only thing Americans in general want to do is sit at a desk, preferably with a computer keyboard at their fingertips, and doing nothing more than answering #ing phone calls.

Everyone wants 15 bux an hour... What if the only jobs that paid you 15 an hour were farm jobs? Hahahahaha. Would you work as a farm hand for 15 dollars an hour? 20? 25? 50? Hahahahaha. I can't wait to see immigration laws get passed by trump.

If Americans aren't willing to take these field hand positions because they don't pay a livable wage & if paid more will cause food prices to increase for consumers, then how can anyone argue against that raising the min wage to $15 for fast food & other entry level jobs won't be the cause of hefty price increases too? There is a correlation!

a reply to: DelMarvel

Most Americans wont do that work because it is much easier to sit at home and get government benifits than to work and essentially make less.

a reply to: reldra

For starters, why should americans work when they can earn more sitting on their arses. They are probably receiving more in government assistance than they can earn in the field.

The problem with undocumented workers is that they have no choice to work for substandard wages simply because they are here illegally. If the government wanted more farm workers, earning a higher wage, they should offer more guest worker permits, but they wont. They want the illegals to slave for poverty wages.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: DelMarvel

So they are 'undocumented' workers and not illegals because that would be an inconvenient fact.

The bottom line is I will pay more for food to create higher paying jobs for Americans that are here legally than support a criminal illegal alien industry that exploits workers and creates low wages.

Unemployed American citizens need to accept whatever job they can get, minimum wage or no. People who collect unemployment compensation and who refuse to do a certain type of work, even though they're perfectly able to do so, should not be allowed to continue receiving benefits. Period.

However, as the OP article clearly states, the pay is not the problem. It is people who have never worked hard in their entire adult life, who are unwilling to start working hard now. They feel such menial labor is beneath them, where in stark contrast, illegals are grateful for the work, and will do it for a fraction of the pay. That is the absolute truth.

a reply to: CharlesT

Yes. You are absolutely correct.

a reply to: GiulXainx

During my high school years, I would have taken that summer job. $10/hour for longer than 8/hr days for a summer is a good position for a high school kid.

During the Great Depression Americans did take those jobs and were glad to get them. Americans mass migrated to California then. My great grandfather was one of them. He relocated to Yuba City and wound up staying there. Guarantee, if bellies start growling, americans will do it.

a reply to: GiulXainx

So if $10 an hour didn't get a response, the wages were to low So he decided to break the law instead. Remember the free market thing that CEO's point to. It goes both ways, wages up, and wages down.

Hope $10 an hour guy never tries to sell a used car that is prices to high. He can't reduce the cost to meet the market, he should set fire to it, and collect insurance money. If he can't get the $ he wants, it's perfectly exceptable to break the law (for more $).

originally posted by: chrismarco
a reply to: DelMarvel

We need to figure out how to automate the farming industry more effectively...I would even go a step further and say we need to look at hydroponics in a controlled environment and get away from pesticides in general..keep in mind I did not think this through with all my amazing brain power but that is what just rolled off my tongue

Which is a solution. Illegals are NOT a solution. It's basically slavery no matter how you rock it. Also like someone said above, why would people want to do the messy jobs my parents and grandparents did when you give them free food, free money, free housing and you tell them it's ok to keep doing it. So far, this is the best answer I've seen here.

Remove the illegals! Undocumented... Whatever the hell you want to call them. I call them 'legal slaves'. And who said slavery is a thing of the past. People who're ok with them being here to work in the fields should be ashamed! By letting this happen, you're belittling them to be the lowest of the low that no one else would stoop to. I see people here saying they wouldn't do the work because of "3rd world problems" or maladies, skin cancer and whatever... That didn't stop our prior lineage. Wussies! Me? I did that crap all while I was growing up. We had cattle. We had farms. We butchered and fished for our food. Now I sit behind a desk.

It's as simple as this... If the farmers don't want to do their own damn work or pay for what the work is really worth, then they should go get a job working in someone elses fields. That's how we did it. If we couldn't afford to plant, we worked with someone else until we could. It's that simple! This gimmie attitude is what's destroying our country. We're entitled and we don't want to work for our dues. Don't rely on the backs of Juan and his 90 year old wife to pick your cabbage.

It's like any other business. If you can't make the cut... get out! Do something else. Go work for someone else. Someone will damn sure do it. The government burns up excess food all over the US every single year. They pay those farmers to burn up their crop. You can't tell me we wouldn't have plenty. There are farmers out there that do their own work and hire people who WILL work their farms. I guess they actually pay them what it's worth. How can these people do it and others cant? I see it around me all the time. There is no-one named Juan where I'm talking about. It's Jeff, Kenny, Tommy, Sons, Daughters, Brothers....

Again..> People that say that we should let these illegals in so they can earn a living should be out there doing the work for 1 week then come back and try to say otherwise. They should also look really deep within and see just how they see those "poor" people. These are the same people who ring bells to let everyone know their giving coins (COINS) to the bumbs on the corner instead of taking them in their homes and putting them up with a roof, clothes and food.

Soooo double sided!

"No US citizen that was raised here will pick fruit of vegetables for $30 a day". Take away their welfare and their money card and their free housing and they sure in the hell will. You get rid of the illegal workers and you wont have to worry about 30$ wages. Hell, that's immoral anyways! Like I said.. get out the business if you can't afford it like every other business in this "fair" country. Why are some more entitled than others?


Sorry... went off on a tangent there. My real point was that this was a great response. Farmers will find a solution if they want to stay in the fields. Automation is a great solution. They will overcome, they will find a way if they have to. I agree with your idea. I'm silly with grief that no one else looks at this as a viable option. This is a solution people!

a reply to: CharlesT

links, articles, graphs?

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: DelMarvel

So they are 'undocumented' workers and not illegals because that would be an inconvenient fact.

The bottom line is I will pay more for food to create higher paying jobs for Americans that are here legally than support a criminal illegal alien industry that exploits workers and creates low wages.

This^

I almost never agree with you but I definitely agree on this.

Anyone who says that these workers aren't paid under the table and below a legal wage are out of their minds. I worked in South Texas and I can tell your for a fact that as soon as you start to mess around in entry level jobs, employers seem to think that they can dicker with what they pay you because of illegal immigration; if you aren't willing to work for that (and forget W2's), then there is a line of illegals willing to take your place for even less. It depresses the economy, it doesn't bolster it.