Libertarian Candidate Gary Johnson Claims Government 'Science' Overrides Medical Freedom

a reply to: Witness2008

Vaccines aren't 100% effective though.

They don't take into account natural mutations, variances in vectors.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Aazadan

Using your argument, should we be trusted to do anything then?

It's up for debate, but when you get right down to it... are we trusted to do anything? There's laws regulating virtually everything.

Why do we even have rights if we're going to conclude that government is always smarter than any individual?

Rights aren't actions you can take, they're actions the government can't take against you.

The success of vaccination at combatting horrible disease is standard and accepted science.

Vaccinating children is a matter of protecting public health, which, is one of the valid uses of government power.

Johnson is absolutely correct, and his stance is reasonable, not "anti-Libertarian" ... although there are obviously many who can't make that distinction any longer.

a reply to: Aazadan

Government is the antithesis of freedom.

Debates constantly revolve around how much of one compared to the other.

I will always side with more freedom and less government. Always.

Individual rights to self determine are paramount, in my opinion.

a reply to: DBCowboy

It turns out that the mumps vaccine has 0% efficacy. There is an epidemic of vaccinated folks having to navigate that illness which does become dangerous as an adult.

Most, if not all, of the people who got sick were vaccinated. But Glatt said the MMR vaccine that most of us get in two doses as children isn’t 100 percent effective against mumps, so there are outbreaks from time to time.

newyork.cbslocal.com...

The most effective prevention is the illness itself, which turns out to be not as horrible as some would have you believe.

a reply to: Witness2008

Well said.

Trusting government and government programs and government vaccine initiatives is the ultimate in abdication of responsibility.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Aazadan

Government is the antithesis of freedom.

Debates constantly revolve around how much of one compared to the other.

I will always side with more freedom and less government. Always.

Individual rights to self determine are paramount, in my opinion.

I just don't agree. There can sometimes be too much government, but I find that usually comes from the state and local levels. The federal government stays pretty balanced because there's so many eyes on them.

Some things simply make sense to do on a national level though, for example... vaccines. If we don't create national standards for vaccines, then some states might be more lax than others. In the least bad case this leads to disease outbreaks which mutate and spread across the country, in the worst case it leads to vaccines being given to people that cause actual harm.

Self determination is a fine philosophy, but if you live in society you have to accept to follow the herd on some level. Self determination is all about choosing where you live, how you want to get educated, where you would like to work, who you want to marry not in setting standards for society to follow. If you want to do that, get involved in government... better yet, become one of the experts that government consults.

originally posted by: Aazadan

I just don't agree. There can sometimes be too much government, but I find that usually comes from the state and local levels. The federal government stays pretty balanced because there's so many eyes on them.

Actually, it's been proven States are much more reactive and more accountable when it comes to budgeting. Probably Illinois being the biggest exception to the rules.

Federal government is much more abusive. Clinton's and Obama's misuse of the FBI. NSA scandals. Fast and furious. Hillary's abuse of classified documents and pay to play. Obama administration picking who gets green energy money. Obama wanting to give financial and military aid to the Muslim brotherhood. Obama wanting to read rights to terrorists on the battlefield but taking US citizens out with drones.

Biggest problem I have with vaccinations. A special interest lobbies for their vaccination then all the sudden it's law kids have to take the vaccination. What better monopoly and forced markets!

originally posted by: neutronflux
Actually, it's been proven States are much more reactive and more accountable when it comes to budgeting. Probably Illinois being the biggest exception to the rules.

Federal government is much more abusive. Clinton's and Obama's misuse of the FBI. NSA scandals. Fast and furious. Hillary's abuse of classified documents and pay to play. Obama administration picking who gets green energy money. Obama wanting to give financial and military aid to the Muslim brotherhood. Obama wanting to read rights to terrorists on the battlefield but taking US citizens out with drones.

Many states have ruined their budgets, Kansas and Illinois are the big ones in the news right now but it wasn't all that long ago where we were talking about a public bailout for California as well. Then you have other examples of state incompetence like Florida's education system or Flint Michigan.

The states simply cannot be trusted. They have a lot of power over your life but get a small fraction of the oversight that the federal government has.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: amazing

Not directing this at you, but I just wish we could have a discussion on the dangers of some stuff in some vaccines without it turning into an anti or pro vacc discussion or pro disease discussion.

Let me know when you come up with science that isn't just a statistical outlier and we'll talk.

I'm not a wacko...I mean there was a debate for years over removing mercury from vaccines and finally a few years ago it was done. That's how you have a meaningful discussion, get things taken care of without being an anti vaccer. All I'm saying.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Sremmos80

Old statistical outliers that are being misrepresented is where this conspiracy theory comes from.

Also not knowing how to read an abstract.

Got it. You would stop all meaningful discourse that doesn't conform to you entrenched beliefs and anyone with any questions is an idiot. I'm paraphrasing. But a closed mind is a terrible thing.

a reply to: amazing

Wasn't what was said at all...

If you have questions about this why are you looking at 20 year old studies?

a reply to: Witness2008

You might want to do a bit more reading on why they got measles with vaccinations. No one is saying that they are 100% effective, but saying since people got it with a vaccination means it is 0 is laughable at best.

a reply to: neutronflux

Most drug companies take huge losses on vaccines as the majority of them are given away for free.

Next.

a reply to: Aazadan

Kansas has among the lowest unemployment in the nation, however. Currently sitting under 5%.

It's amazing what happens when government is told to F off.

a reply to: projectvxn

A bit more to that tho.
www.kansascity.com...

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Aazadan

Kansas has among the lowest unemployment in the nation, however. Currently sitting under 5%.

It's amazing what happens when government is told to F off.

This was covered in the above link, but that just means Kansas isn't really filling jobs. People who want jobs are getting them, but employers aren't able to fill needed positions and grow. The state is among the worst in job creation even though less taxes should supposedly let businesses reinvest in workers. The problem is, how do you reinvest in workers when there simply aren't people to work the jobs?

a reply to: Aazadan

There a ton of good paying jobs created in Kansas regularly.

Especially in aviation and renewable energy.

Oh but we need to vote third party to save the world from the mean evil trump!

This stupid Johnson is such a better choice