The Narrow Gate and the Road Few Find

a reply to: ChesterJohn

there is no such thing as the kingdom of Grace.

I found my mistake.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Wombocracy

So today we are not under the Gospel of the kingdom which pertains to Israel in the land, and will again become the gospel during the Great tribulation.

Currently we are under the Gospel of the Grace of God as God had given this unto us via Paul, the one called out of due season, the apostle to the Gentiles, carrying the gospel of the uncircumcised (Gal 2:7). That any man Jew or Gentile could be saved through faith by grace(Eph 2:8,9) on Jesus Christ.

I must have accidently seen kingdom where the word wasn't present.

My apologies: Knee jerk reaction to what I take to be dispensationalism. Old habits from polemics.

I can't show all the work at the moment, but could we conclude that the Gentiles weren't supposed to hear the teachings of Jesus, and therefore some form of misappropriation has occurred?

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Blue letter is an electronic version that is promoted through Calvary Chapel. Because Chuck Smith and the Calvary Chapel affiliated pastors have their commentaries and study stuff that goes with it.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: NOTurTypical

But it is not transliterated into the Preserved English bible today. It (harpazo) is translated "caught up" unto him in the clouds. That is where the Greek word Harpazo is but God preserved it into English as "caught up" not a transliteration from Latin, Rapture.

The AV or KJV is a word for word translation, in Christianity we affirm that the originals are inerrant, I.E. the Hebrew and the Greek. There are a few errors in translation in the KJV, but they're known. The KJV translators still inserted/translated their beliefs into the text in certain places. It's minor, but there was a slight anti-Semitic stream.

When you get a hold of an original I would sure love to see it. But as far as my personal search I have yet to find one piece of a original in Hebrew or Greek. Everything we have are copies. We can affirm something is inerrant but we would have a hard time proving the copies we have are inerrant.

My point is God made a promise in Ps 12:6, 7 to preserve his word to all generations for ever and we are currently in this English speaking generation and very few believe God preserved his word to this generation. That leaves men to do it themselves and since 1830 men have created 350 plus English bibles and new ones are printed every year.

I believe he has preserved it in just one and from it I don't have to go to any original language copy to translate it. All I have to believe what it says where it says it and get an application from it where I can for my life.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

It is also called the gathering unto Jesus in the clouds.

a reply to: pthena

We Gentiles were to have all the word of God, and we were commanded to study to show ourselves approved by rightly dividing the word of Truth.

Right division means we would see what applies to whom at which time and glean truth for our lives from it.

For an example Jesus said

Matt 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

Is that applicable to anyone today?

If you say yes, then please give me all your money, or maybe your car, better yet give me your house. If you refuse you disobey what Jesus is teaching.

Unless of course these are teachings to the Jews preparing them for the Kingdom. Then they will apply to the Jews in the Millennial kingdom and have no application for the church, the body of Christ today.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

So then, if all this literally happened as recorded in the "inerrant word", then the people that the Jesus character actually spoke to are held to a standard which you find unworkable or unreasonable.

Instead of saying you disagree with Jesus, you say that it applies to some one else but not you.

So the illusion of believing can be maintained while claiming absolute adherence to absolute truth and morality.

I suggest that maybe the Parenthesis be renamed the Loophole.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: NOTurTypical

It is also called the gathering unto Jesus in the clouds.

There ya go, we can call the rapture that. No biggie.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

But His word IS preserved, there are over 5500 Greek NT manuscripts. Of what you are saying that God only preserves His Word in English then that promise by God is broken for anyone who doesn't speak English and has a Bible in their tongue.

Don't get me wrong, I use the KJV, but the KJV isn't inerrant, we know a few errors. I love the KJV because I want a word for word translation from the Texts Receptus. For example of the biggest error, in Revelation the mark of the beast isn't 666. That's a bad translation, there are three symbols written in the manuscripts. They're actually Arabic words, John wrote down exactly what he saw in the vision.

See Here

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Blue letter is an electronic version that is promoted through Calvary Chapel. Because Chuck Smith and the Calvary Chapel affiliated pastors have their commentaries and study stuff that goes with it.

Blue Letter Bible isn't 1 translation, you can use the software for any translation of the Bible. And then show the Strong's concordance numbers and click directly to the Hebrew or Greek Lexicons.

It also has historical commentaries as well, such as the complete Matthew Henry. Basically the Blue Letter Bible website contains virtually what an entire pastor's study would have contained 50 years ago. It's a remarkable resource.

a reply to: NOTurTypical
When I say preserved I mean in one book I can hold in my hand that has all the words of God in it that I can trust. Not 5500 different documents you couldn't even hold in one hand.

He said unto all generations forever. So there is one in English but no one has to agree with me but for me there is.

a reply to: pthena

no not unreasonable or unworkable just non applicable to us currently. Like the verse in Matt 5:42.

But I really think you don't understand that not all the Bible can be applied to you personally. At the time of Jesus earthly ministry, the one where he walked the earth. He was preparing Israel for their kingdom that was promised them and he was to be their king. Time and time again we are told he went to the lost tribes of Israel. Even the twelve and the 72 were told to not go to the gentiles only Jews. But then you want to take things promised to them and apply it to yourself and it can't be. It would be like me getting a letter to you that says for you to come and get $100 dollars. If I took the letter and tried to claim it they would say, you are not him therefore you cannot have the $100.

Something applicable for them in the kingdom would not have a application for me today because it was for them in their kingdom, not for me as a member of the body of Christ.

Things that are different are not the same.

All the sophist reasoning will not make those verse apply to anyone today. But if you beleive it is for you today then please send me all your money.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: NOTurTypical
When I say preserved I mean in one book I can hold in my hand that has all the words of God in it that I can trust. Not 5500 different documents you couldn't even hold in one hand.

He said unto all generations forever. So there is one in English but no one has to agree with me but for me there is.

So what about people that don't speak English? Is God'a guarantee null and void for those people?

a reply to: NOTurTypical

I doubt there is anyone who has not heard it. But He tells us in the scriptures that there is a law in themselves they will be judged by.

Ro 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

No, I meant the non-English speaking Christian believers. For example, they have Bibles written in Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Arabic, et cetra. If God'said promise null and void to them about Hospital word always being preserved? They can't read English and can't read a KJV Bible. Are the just out of luck for the promise of God?

I'm trying to get you to see the point, that the promise of preserving His word throughout the generations and the inerrant truth is on the Greek and Hebrew which we get translations from, the Textus Receptus manuscript, the "majority text".

In English, that just happens to be the KJV, in other languages that are based on the majority text, not the Alexandria disasters, they have His word in their own tongue. The KJV translators inserted some theological ideas they had into the English, the KJV is anti-Semitic in some areas that are bad translations from the Greek. But at the time in 1600 Christians hated the Jews for the most part. That's one example, as I already mentioned the horrible rendering that brought us 666 in Revelation.

Food for thought. I love the KJV, I use the KJV myself, but the final authority is the Greek and Hebrew, not the KJV.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

There are AV copies in their language a little rare today but they are there. They could be saved as you believe the truth and the gospel are in those other versions. But they are not whole complete and inerrant.

Anyone, English speaking or not if they never hear the word of God about Jesus Christ as quoted earlier they will be judged by what they do know.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

My final authority is the AV English I hold n my hand because I believe it is the preserved word of God to the generation.

I no longer have to weary myself in study Hebrew and Greek. ALL I have to know is the English words and their meanings. Not once has it ever led me astray and I can teach all the teachings found in the other English translations from understanding those English words in the AV.

Study out the full meaning of the word Escheweth as found in Job 1, you will learn it means more than to hate, turn away from, have no fellowship with, not tolerated, secretly allowed, abore, dislikes, or not permit.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Whatever blesses you, go with it.

Let me ask you, did the apostles celebrate Easter or Passover? Is it the Holy Ghost or the Holy Spirit? Is the mark of the beast going to be on the forehead and right hand or forehead and right arm?

The KJV has errors, all translations from the original do. That's because the autographs are inerrant inspired words and authors, not the translators.

And I use the KJV, but when I need clarification I go to the original language.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: NOTurTypical

There are AV copies in their language a little rare today but they are there. They could be saved as you believe the truth and the gospel are in those other versions. But they are not whole complete and inerrant.

Anyone, English speaking or not if they never hear the word of God about Jesus Christ as quoted earlier they will be judged by what they do know.

I believe they have the Word of GOD in their tongue. The error is saying the AV is inerrant. The originals are inerrant, all translations have errors from the originals. As stated above, the KJV editors inserted their doctrinal beliefs into the translations. 1 example is them saying Easter in Acts. Easter is a pagan holiday adapted by the RCC. None of the apostles celebrated a holiday dedicated to Asteroth, they celebrated Passover. Minor things like that.

The originals are inerrant. The Hebrew and Greek.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Easter in acts is a reference to the pagan holiday of Herod not a reference to anything Jewish or Christian.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Easter in acts is a reference to the pagan holiday of Herod not a reference to anything Jewish or Christian.

Not true, the word in the text is "pascha", and thats not a Greek word. It's an Aramaic word that's transliterated directly into the Greek language because there isn't a Greek word for it because it's a Jewish feast. The same way we transliterate the Jewish holiday "Hanukkah" into the English. It can mean specifically the feast of Passover itself or used in a general sense for the entire week of unleavened bread.

In fact there was no such thing as "Easter" in the time of Acts, what the pagans celebrated was "Ishtar". Easter was an invention of the Catholic Church so people could keep their pagan holidays.