Grand Imam of Al-Azhar Thinks Atheists Are Seeking to Undermine Islam

I'll go on record here...as a believer in a God but no religion that I am hereby stating me intention to undermine all ABrahamic religions.

a reply to: Rubicon3

I agree.

I wish this single line was the only line in the bible. If it was then Christians would have become very wise and shared tools for awareness instead of believing they knew everything because they had a "perfect book" that is really imperfect when you really examine it and think very deeply.

Matthew 7:7
"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

originally posted by: amazing
I'll go on record here...as a believer in a God but no religion that I am hereby stating me intention to undermine all ABrahamic religions.

I should have more in common with religious than atheist due to my experiences. But how can I join any religion that is not built on solid golden rule doctrine and increasea intelligence instead of decreased it.

This place is so opposite. Many who believe in something more are hypocrites and do not follow the golden rule and from my point of view miss the mark totally. Many who do not believe at all do everything right and do not miss the mark at all or correct the action/damage if they do.

a reply to: TheAmazingYeti

This kind of conversation on religion and atheism is a healthy conversation.

As long as people don’t start calling each other names and call for each other to be suppressed or worst


An atheist has every right to criticize religion as a religious person has every right to denounce atheism as long as it stays civil and doesn’t demonize each other.

originally posted by: TarzanBeta
a reply to: TheAmazingYeti

Hey there.

It's annoying to me that there are these so-called Christians that make those of us that love the good book look foolish.

But on the point of what this Imam said, does any atheist disagree with his assumption that atheists would rather be soon rid of Islam?

I'm interested to see the answers.

no atheist wants rid of any religion, we need people and their faery tales to laugh at.
maybe you should get educated on what atheists believe, you appear to be backwards in that respect.

originally posted by: Willtell

An atheist has every right to criticize religion as a religious person has every right to denounce atheism as long as it stays civil and doesn’t demonize each other.

Point. Most religious are ignorant of atheism, while most (not all) atheists came up through religion.

Like me (atheist), many first tried to justify religion, by examining it, doing research, etc.

Its rarely an "even" discussion.

a reply to: TheAmazingYeti

Dear mr Imam,

I wonder when all of us atheists are going to band together and round up all the religious people and just kill them. I mean it could be justified in a way, given the amount of social disruption that religious zealots are causing on a local, national and international scale.

Oops! I forgot, that won't happen; logic generally kicks in when a person doesn't base their humanity and behaviour on faith, but rather on simply doing the right thing.

So then, no problems, atheist won't kill you, they will just try to educate you to death.

Yours, an atheist.

originally posted by: tommo39
The "fear" muslims have of offending the koran teachings and their religion in general.

Is it a theocractic government where you are?

Is the fear really of offending God, or is the fear about possible reprisal from man?

originally posted by: LittleByLittle

I should have more in common with religious than atheist due to my experiences.

There is Spiritual Atheism.

The Center for Spiritual Atheism: spiritualatheism.com...

originally posted by: TheBulk

originally posted by: NthOther
It's kinda funny...

The vast majority of atheists I come in contact with just happen to be of a certain political persuasion that actually coddles Muslims as a protected class of people.

Atheists undermining Islam? Hell, they're helping to spread it.

You're not listening to the right atheists.

What a surprise, removed.

originally posted by: tommo39
a reply to: Rubicon3

Your post make sense, and has logic. I have lived in a muslim country for 20 years and boy, has it opened my eyes. The "fear" muslims have of offending the koran teachings and their religion in general. Islam as you would know is very aligned to the catholic teachings of the old testament. I would think to reform the koran would be impossible due to the immense fear and indoctrination of the islam religion.........

Fear is certainly prevalent in Islam.

But read a few things about reforming islam and why it can't be done.

It would not BE islam anymore.

The Illusion of Reforming Islam
alisina.org...

YOU CAN’T REFORM ISLAM WITHOUT REFORMING MUSLIMS
Islam hasn’t changed because Muslims don’t want it to.
www.frontpagemag.com...

The Impossibility of Reforming Islam

By Timothy Abraham
www.answering-islam.org...

Why Can't Islam be Reformed?
www.faithfreedom.org...

Take it as you will.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

Fear is certainly prevalent in Islam.

Not sure why, but this reminded me of the Jesus crucifixes/statues.

Here in the states you get "Surfer Jesus" (long flowing mane, peaceful looking face, clean cut.

The further you travel south through Mexico, the bloodier, thinner, more tortured Jesus becomes.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: LittleByLittle

I should have more in common with religious than atheist due to my experiences.

There is Spiritual Atheism.

The Center for Spiritual Atheism: spiritualatheism.com...

I would think of this as Agnostic Non dualists. Maybe I should join Jediism.

originally posted by: LittleByLittle

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: LittleByLittle

I should have more in common with religious than atheist due to my experiences.

There is Spiritual Atheism.

The Center for Spiritual Atheism: spiritualatheism.com...

I would think of this as Agnostic Non dualists. Maybe I should join Jediism.

Did you read it?

An atheist is agnostic.

Atheist: Lack of belief in a God.
Agnostic: God can not be proven or dis-proven. No true atheist would claim God does not exist.

I am a Spiritual Atheist. I have had paranormal (for lack of better word) since first memory. My experiences tell me there is more to our existence then what is visible. I attribute it to energy consciousness. No God required.

a reply to: Annee

Is it a theocractic government where you are?

No not fully, but there are provinces and area's where "theocratic fiefdoms" are emerging such as in Bogor (java) and Padang (sumatra). Aech province is totally gone overboard and is theocratic to the core. Indonesia is stated as a secular country but that's all for show. Under Suharto, he introduced "freedom for all religions", but that has slowly been eroded by hardline islamists. These people burn churches and "hunt" non-muslims out of their area's, law enforcement and govt turn a blind eye to what's going on. Is the fear really of offending God, or is the fear about possible reprisal from man?
BOTH. offend the deity and you have eternity in hell with the infidels and non believers, US, offend other muslims and you suffer beating or even death, a true catch22 for sure..........

originally posted by: tommo39

BOTH. offend the deity and you have eternity in hell with the infidels and non believers, US, offend other muslims and you suffer beating or even death, a true catch22 for sure..........

Both sounds about right.

Fear of consequences. One of the things that I became fully aware of once I stepped completely out of the "God Circle".

It was like a weight was lifted off of me. It was enlightening and refreshing to be solely responsible for my own being.

a reply to: Annee

I have had paranormal

Good for you Annee, i know nothing about it. However, Indonesia is full of what i call "mumbo jumbo" and most if not all muslims believe in the paranormal, witchcraft and other forms of magic,which has been around for thousands of years and is only spoken about in closed quarters.. I can never understand this, as it goes outside of their Islam religious teachings to practice and believe in these things. Maybe underneath they are all atheist's, ha ha....

a reply to: burgerbuddy

YES, you are right, islam will never change because muslims don't want change, they have been brainwashed and indoctrinated with the koran verses. There is an old saying, to experience change is to experience Emotional and Psychological Trauma, and muslims would not be able to cope with a new version of the koran.....

originally posted by: tommo39
Maybe underneath they are all atheist's, ha ha....

LOL. Well, I don't believe in witch craft, or superstitions, or any thing like that.

I simply believe everything is energy.

Science does not need mysticism and mysticism does not need science; but man needs both. — Fritjof Capra. In The Tao of Physics

to what degree a man needs mysticism (religion) and science (non-religious dogma) is up to the individual. some people need it spoonfed though and that's where it gets crazy.

there should be an impenetrable barrier between religion and politics


a reply to: TarzanBeta