posted on Jun, 17 2016 @ 10:29 AM
I've lurked around ATS for much longer than I've been a member. And as member I have yet to ever post. BK, I remember reading your Sandy Hook posts
and agree that the amount of not only emotion, but vitriol those threads generated was nothing short of staggering and, in some cases, vile.
It seems as thought this is starting out as a logical discussion about the Orlando shooting which hits very close to home for me as an Orlando
resident. The nonsense and ignorance that I'm seeing elsewhere and the tone of this thread is what prompted me to post here. I posted what I'm about
to say on another site and was called a shill and full of BS.
Until two years ago I lived two blocks away from Pulse...for ten years I lived there. I'm intimately familiar with the area...I've gotten gas in the
7-11 on the opposite corner, shopped in that Radio Shack across the street, and literally driven that stretch of Orange Ave. thousands of times. I've
been inside of that venue, though not in it's current incarnation as Pulse but in it's previous incarnation as Dante's...an italian restaurant and
live music venue. I happen to know one of the victims and am one degree removed from several other people who were killed (not known to me personally
but friends of close friends of mine) and know a couple of the responding officers from a couple of the different responding agencies. I won't name
names or agencies to protect the integrity of their jobs and not put them in even the remotest position for disciplinary action for anything they may
tell me as a friend.
I say all of that to say that I patently don't buy into the hoax camp about this OR Sandy Hook (but I'll keep this on topic). I'm on the fence about
it being a false flag event...I can see it as a possibility but I'm not sold on it. I do know that someone walked into that nightclub and shot up a
bunch of innocents. Whether the motive is as the MSM is reporting or is a deeper conspiracy we'll probably never get undeniable proof of.
As far as the kill ratio goes, I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility of a single shooter being able to inflict so much damage. The
interior of that venue hasn't changed much over the years from what I've been told by friends who've been inside both when it was Dante's and as
Pulse. It's small and with 300+ people in there it would be cramped, dark, and loud. That's a lot of soft targets in a concentrated area. From the
videos I've seen from both across the street at the 7-11 and from the Snapchat video inside it sounds like, at the rate of fire he was shooting, he'd
empty a 30 round magazine in about 14 seconds. At that rate, he'd be able to empty 4 magazines in just over a minute factoring in reload time. Think
about the the panic, chaos, and bottleneck of 300+ people scrambling for the couple of exits they new about. I'm not sure how old the folks around ATS
are reading this, but I'll reference The Station nightclub fire in Warwick, RI in 2003...100 people dead trying to get out the door. Also think about
the fact that many of the patrons probably don't go in and immediately start identifying exits in case of emergency. This is a place where
people felt comfortable and safe.
There were reports of a second or even third and fourth gunmen from eyewitnesses. Some witnesses reported hearing shots coming from different
directions. This isn't necessarily evidence of multiple perpetrators. There WERE multiple shooters, however...there was the shooter and the police
engaging him with return fire. I think that accounts for the reports of fire coming from multiple directions. It certainly reconciles it in my
It's also not hard to envision that the 5.56 round, as a penetrating round, might not be responsible for multiple deaths per single round as I've
heard some use to fortify their hoax theory, but certainly could be responsible for a death of one person and injury of another if it were to pass
through one victim and strike another in close proximity (if not packed together). At a barrel length of 16inches (per the Sig MCX specs on their
website), average 5.56 ammunition would have a bullet velocity of approximately 2,900 ft/s. Fired at close range it's not hard to imagine the
probability of one round causing multiple wounds.
As far as the shooter telling a local tv station or 911 dispatcher about there being explosive devices and multiple accomplices or snipers on the roof
ready to pick off first responders, of course he would do that. Why wouldn't he try to instill the idea of a larger attack and introduce another
level of danger to bluster the fear and panic both to the hostages and the public.
The lack of blood, in my opinion, isn't a huge red flag. If you think about the injured who were able to escape, none of them were mortally wounded.
Most of the SERIOUSLY wounded were evacuated after the 5am breach by SWAT. While yet some victims were rescued by police within the first hour or so
of the attack. The footage we have of the wounded are, essentially, walking wounded (I know, some are shown being carried...I mean that as a
metaphor, not an absolute) who were conscious and at least somewhat ambulatory.
And yes, people are walking toward Pulse nightclub in the footage we've seen. They're on the east side of Orange Ave heading north toward Pulse, but
also toward ORMC (Orlando Regional Medical Center) and most likely where ambulances were staging (speculation on my part). There was an enormous
police presence at that time and it stands to reason that, without the immediate presence of an ambulance, the police would represent help to panicked
and/or injured folks in shock. It's reasonable to consider that if people ran out of that club injured and in a blind panic they may have been
disoriented when they exited and when finding themselves safe started helping each other and heading back toward the perceived safety of police and
It's also important to note that while Pulse is considered to be downtown, it's about 2 miles away from where all of the downtown nightlife is on
Orange Ave. That particular stretch of Orange Ave. isn't very busy at the time of night/early morning when the shooting started. And there certainly
isn't the pedestrian traffic you'd see in the downtown proper area where the majority of the bars and night clubs are. It get's considerably busier
between 2:30-3a as the club empties and people filter out on their way home or the 7-11 across the street. Last I knew the Wendy's across the street
closed at 2am...I'll admit to being a little bit surprised to not see any cell phone video from an employee locking up there if that's still the
correct closing time for them. I can't confirm their current operating hours or whether or not employees were even present in the store at that
I know that law enforcement is taking a lot of heat for the 3 hour span of time between the initial shooting and their breach of the back wall at 5am.
I can only speculate but it's logical to think in that span of time while the shooter was, at various times, on the phone with 911 dispatchers, a
local tv station, police negotiators, texting his wife and posting to Facebook that LEOs were interviewing witnesses, trying to get a feel for the
scene inside and where hostages were, studying building plans, and formulating a plan to breach the building, neutralize the threat, and rescue