Orlando Shooting claims of no evidence

So I joined ATS back in '05, despite it saying '08. Been on both sides of MANY heated debates. I remember back to Sandy Hook and never saw vitriol reach a peak like it did then. I was in genuine befuddled shock as to how people could think the slaying of children was faked. I got very emotional, as did many others. And instead of debating the facts, I was outright debating people. To the point where Neph had to put me in timeout a couple times which almost resulted in a permaban. From there I took some time off of ATS. I've been lurking ever since, and in the last year or two have come back.

So I want to look at Orlando in a different light. But make no mistake, I am firmly believing this was not a false flag. And while I haven't seen it too much on ATS, I have seen the false flag idea drop all over reddit. Paul Craig Roberts is the name I've seen floating out there now. Below is an excerpt of what I believe is the beginning of the Orlando False flag debate.

Some readers have asked for my take on the Orlando Shooting. I don’t have one. Let’s see if together we can form a reasonable view. Let’s start with the basic first question. Before there can be a murder declared, there must be a body. Has anyone seen on TV or in newspapers pictures of dead bodies? Bodies should be readily available if the reports are correct that fifty people were killed and 50 or more were wounded and in hospital. I cannot bear the presstitute TV and print media. These are full-time propaganda organizations. Hopefully, some of you hold your nose and watch the news and can fill in the spaces. Has anything we have been told been confirmed by any real evidence? Initially, I saw a CNN newscast and a RT report. The reports were heavy with verbiage of blood being all over the place, but the only visual evidence offered were three people, supposedly injured, being helped, not by medics or first responders, but by ordinary folks. A couple of people were helping a guy with tattoos in place of a shirt, but there was no sign of blood. Several people were helping people in police uniforms to carry a person who they dumped in the back of a pickup truck, not in the cab. About 6 people were carrying a person stretched out prone (no stretcher) down a street.

There was no blood and it looked like a crisis acting performance. Why prone? Is an injured person really able to keep his body stiff so that he can be carried along prone parallel to the ground? Where are they taking him? Is this just a camera walk-by? www.cnn.com... What has become of the protocol that untrained people are not to attempt to help injured people? When police arrive at a scene, they usually run off bystanders, not recruit them to assist their activities or allow them to carry away the wounded and dead. Readers have noticed that the visual evidence does not match the verbal reports.

Readers report that Fox “News” and MSNBC repeatedly show the same footage described above of bystanders carrying supposedly injured victims whose facial expressions are completely unstressed and show no pain, fear, or blood. So has anyone seen any dead bodies? Any body bags? Any wounded taken to hospitals in ambulances? Any of the hospital wounded interviewed by TV reporters? Has any reporter checked with the morgue? Allegedly, people inside the massacre location made cell phone calls and texted. But no one took photos or videos? Are there no security cameras? No doormen to notice a heavily armed person enter? With 50 people killed and 50 or more wounded and reports of oceans of blood, there should be plenty of evidence Have any of you seen any of it?

Paul Craig Roberts

He then posts a response in which he starts to poke holes in the idea of lack of ambulances and even then posts a youtube video showing 'proof' that people were being carried TOWARDS Pulse nightclub. I watched it and I see people carrying a hurt body on the opposite sidewalk in the same direction yes, but by no means proof he was being carried in. For all we know someone was getting him to a car because all the ambulances were blocked or used.

Mainly what readers have reported is evidence that the Orlando shooting is a hoax. One reader sent me a video in which a skeptic uses a RT video to show that the same three allegedly injured people, who so far are the only victims we have been shown, are being carried toward the night club, not away from it. www.youtube.com... Another person sent a video that shows the man with the red shoes who is being carried is put down after the camera walk-by. www.youtube.com...

Part 2


Is this the crux of the false flag conspiracy for Orlando? I will not be handling this like I did Sandy Hook, and I hope many others don't either no matter their point of view. This also isn't intended for a gun fight or why your candidate would fix this and everyone else in the world is wrong. This is about debating the merits of calling this a false flag. In this man's humble opinion, Orlando happened, as did Sandy Hook.

Could there be more to the story? Yes. 2 shooters? Why not? I have my doubts but I'm open to hear it. Ill leave you with this picture though.. Because I think it speaks a thousand words

a reply to: bknapple32

well - that didnt take long

I'm going with Mandela Effect.

What really struck me were the witness/loved one interviews.

There was only one person that I saw who could even be construed as emotional; but if you look closely the body language was screaming 'tweaker'.

Then local news came on, they interviewed the brother of someone who had got hit by a car. He was emotional, and didn't really finish the interview.

When you're reading this post, you are reading the post...of one suspicious mother bear.......like really not buying anything in the worldly view

not refusing to be in the world....but my spirit is reminded by the Holy Spirit.....i'm not of this world. I read that somewhere....

like the Sandy Hook smiling dad.......telling the world on live tv his little girl was gone..... video'd smiling .... tell me!

on the movie " THE NUTTY PROFFESSOR ".....the scene in the night club....they all clamoured that they smelled something, what was that..." I smell ......."

a reply to: bknapple32

I think the youtube videos did raise some legitimate questions.

originally posted by: Lysergic
I'm going with Mandela Effect.

Hahahaha. touche.

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: bknapple32

I think the youtube videos did raise some legitimate questions.

Lets dissect. a point is made to show them walking from the clinic past the Dunkin Donuts. So there is a legit claim they are walking towards
Pulse.. But what about being on the opposite side of the road? Other outcomes??

Sorry, but exactly what is the picture supposed to be saying?

I'm with you on the weirdness and things don't make sense but, not jumping to FF yet and certainly not fake.

a reply to: HoldMyBeer

Well one of the claims are ' where are the emergency vehicles'' Where is the panic.. I felt that picture captured both.

a reply to: bknapple32
A voice of reason in a sea of ignorance

originally posted by: bknapple32

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: bknapple32

I think the youtube videos did raise some legitimate questions.

Lets dissect. a point is made to show them walking from the clinic past the Dunkin Donuts. So there is a legit claim they are walking towards
Pulse.. But what about being on the opposite side of the road? Other outcomes??

I get what you mean. And that does bring up other questions that need answers.

Most, if not all terrorist attacks/mass shootings in North America are FF's imo...

..a diabolical, yet genius means of spreading fear and stripping away our freedoms, with every ounce of the sheeple's consent.

I don't know. I really just don't know. I mean, I don't think any of these things are 100% hoax. But frankly, it's just all so damn fishy. No. I don't believe I could prove it in a million years. But I don't have to prove a suspicion to anyone. If it doesn't smell right, it doesn't smell right. I'm not putting anyone on trial. I'm not accusing anyone in particular of anything. I just don't trust the media or the government anymore. Anyone who wants to rewrite the Constitution and change the rules because they feel Americans have too many rights is not a trustworthy person, IMO. They are worthy only of my suspicion and extreme skepticism.

So what if I'm wrong? It's my own personal opinion. I don't think there is no evidence. I think evidence can be manufactured. I think if you can watch a movie and believe what you're watching is real (at least while you're watching it) then there are probably people who are skilled and sneaky enough to pull off a real life movie script. Especially if they have basically unlimited resources and a motive.

That's right. I said I believe they CAN fool me. I believe they can fool my eyes and my ears. But they can't completely get around my intuition and my nose.

Do the FF'ers feel as if there is more /less/equal evidence to Orlando being a FF in the same regards as Sandy Hook? I ask just to get a consensus of the ATS feel.

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: bknapple32

I think the youtube videos did raise some legitimate questions.

Yes, the video that I saw had multiple injured being carried the same direction... towards the club..... WHERE THERE IS AN ACTIVE SHOOTER!

Not a lot of blood.
People making jokes about coming to Orlando.

Add these things to the sketchy George Stefanoupolis interview of the man that said someone was holding an exit door shut, telling the people to stay inside, and they cut the guy off after he said what he did. Shortly afterwards, we are treated to an interview of an ACTOR that is reading his lines from a cell phone on his lap.... 'admitting' that he was the guy that held the door shut in the club.

You can only watch so many screwy things before you say WTF.

a reply to: bknapple32

Here is the map of where the hospital is located versus the crime scene. The direction they are being carried is towards the hospital. Also, seems to be where all of the ambulances were stationed at least guessing by all of the emergency vehicle lights.



It is reasonable to think that the police stationed to block off the street in the opposite direction told the injured to go back that way. The lack of blood though on either of the victims seems strange, as well as the stories from the victims that the media hammered out from the first day to the next.

a reply to: bknapple32

That YT video does indeed raise some interesting points about the direction the injured were being carried. In the pic below, the red star is approx posn of the observer, the black arrow being the direction the injured were being carried...



EG: that's not to say that those shown didn't initially escape via back exit, bolt through the carpark of the donut shop and on down the street, then proceeded to return (for accountability purposes) once the police presence was there, and to seek proper medical attention?? switching from one side of the street to the other may just have been a consequence of how the injured, and those that helped, ended up together??

Still, an actual explanation would be good.

originally posted by: GodEmperor
What really struck me were the witness/loved one interviews.

There was only one person that I saw who could even be construed as emotional; but if you look closely the body language was screaming 'tweaker'.

Then local news came on, they interviewed the brother of someone who had got hit by a car. He was emotional, and didn't really finish the interview.

are you implying that witnesses and loved ones can feel no shock at the events.
sounds like you are.
drugs in a nightclub? has this ever happened before?
have you ever been clubbing?

Not pointing my finger at you exclusively, but it seems here on ATS, every tragedy has someone pointing out a connotation of a false flag. I know this is a conspiracy site, but come on folks, we have to start being a little more discriminating when assigning false flag status. Believe it or not, things happen in this world that are horrific in nature, sometimes perpetrated by sick individuals. Sh!t happens. As for lack of ambulances, with fifty dead and fifty wounded, maybe there weren't 100 ambulances available, some may have been enroute to the hospial, or it being 3:00 in the morning, maybe they didn't arrive yet. As far as victims and loved ones seeming detached or emotionless, it most likely is shock at what just happened to them. Unless you are in that situation, you can't even fathom how you would react. Personally if I was shot and wandering around like a zombie and someone called me an 'actor', I'd be pretty pissed.