"To Bernie voters left out in the cold by a rigged system, we welcome you with open arms".

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

I'm really not going to bicker about election fraud. I've heard the explanations, inconsistencies on both sides, etc.

You know why? I'm not going to argue with belief. That's what you're sharing here, and that shows in the hyperbolic assertion that these issues happened time after time (... after time after), that they were always in Clinton's favor, which logically would require a nationwide effort on the part of hundreds of people who are all complicit in some sort of grand "Anti Sanders" conspiracy and can keep quiet about it.

The fact is, Americans who are Democrats did not choose Bernie Sanders they chose Hillary Clinton.

Overwhelmingly.

That's it. Period.

You're not going to argue because you know you're wrong, and yet don't want to admit it. Yes, I am acting on belief, but ultimately everything is a belief, and mine at least has parts of reality that support. Yours is backed by faith and blindness. You don't even want to admit that fraud is a possibility, and continue to declare your opinion as fact. My assertions might be hyperbolic (though I've failed to find irregularities favoring Sanders) but at least they're based on what's actually there. Yours are hyperbole based on illusions.

I can't imagine a Gryphon sticking their head in the sand so vigorously. You're declaring Clinton was chosen overwhelmingly as a lawsuit is filed to reveal election fraud.

Nothing to see here, move along?

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Sieg Heil!!!!

a reply to: theantediluvian

Makes sense. Shows how principled all these "anti-establishment" Bernie supporters are right? I mean, go gung ho for someone that claims they are going against the establishment and then immediately throw your support to the most corrupt criminal politician in modern history.

If Bernie endorses Clinton it will just prove he is another slimey self serving establishment politician.

originally posted by: Winstonian
a reply to: theantediluvian

Makes sense. Shows how principled all these "anti-establishment" Bernie supporters are right? I mean, go gung ho for someone that claims they are going against the establishment and then immediately throw your support to the most corrupt criminal politician in modern history.

If Bernie endorses Clinton it will just prove he is another slimey self serving establishment politician.

Maybe you'd be right if we were single-issue voters. But we're not. We also tend to care about things like strengthening the social safety net; reducing our military spending while rejecting more wars; ensuring equal rights and protections for all Americans, including religious and ethnic minorities & LGBT citizens; increasing the use of renewable energy sources; addressing climate change; holding both the "1%" and the MIC accountable for their actions; making the criminal justice system fair for all Americans; increasing voting rights for more Americans, including the Americans in territories; ending the Drug War; etc. And those are just some our basic positions.

Trump & the other Repubs are in direct opposition to nearly all of these. And needless to say, Hillary's positions are more in line with our priorities than the right wing is on these issues and the other things we care about. That's why some of us will support her over Trump. Though to be fair, I still can't stand her and think she's way too far on the right in many issues. But I'd still prefer her over Trump and any other Repub candidate.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Excellent summation!

There is also the issue of nominating Supreme Court judges. That's another area of a POTUS's legacy. And an issue of major consequences for individual citizens.

I say, let Hillary have the job of President and let Bernie lead the Bernie Revolution. The time is right for a movement led by Bernie and Warren other like-minded leaders. It's high time that the Reagan Revolution is overturned by the Bernie Revolution.

originally posted by: desert
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Excellent summation!

There is also the issue of nominating Supreme Court judges. That's another area of a POTUS's legacy. And an issue of major consequences for individual citizens.

I say, let Hillary have the job of President and let Bernie lead the Bernie Revolution. The time is right for a movement led by Bernie and Warren other like-minded leaders. It's high time that the Reagan Revolution is overturned by the Bernie Revolution.

Yep. Though I'm hoping the "revolution" doesn't focus too much on any specific individual. We'll need thousands of different individuals all over the country in various positions, including in city councils, on school boards, in State legislatures, as police chiefs, and as State attorney generals, too.

It's going to take a lot of organizing to implement these goals throughout the country. So I hope the grassroots groups keep fighting and organizing after this election cycle stops.

originally posted by: John_Rodger_Cornman
a reply to: xuenchen

Yeah most Bernie supporters will vote for Jill Stein or Gary Johnson.
Maybe Bernie teams up with Jill to make a third party run.
They are a little upset at the 500 super-delegates thing. They are not going to vote for Trump after Bernie has been criticizing him for months.

Imagine 4 parties in the general election debates at the same time.

Greens - Jill Stein/Bernie Sanders
Democrats - Hillary/who cares
Republicans - Trump/who cares
Libertarians - Gary Johnson/Bill Weld

I would love it.

It would break the liberal vote into three and leave Trump as the winner.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Exactly! That is exactly how it needs to be done. Leaders are there to guide, but it is the people who follow the guidance and then take action.

The Reagan Revolution was carried out by far right conservatives sinking money into the first organizing campaigns before 1980.... haha we think that campaigns that change this country are election campaigns....Reagan's name was tacked onto this change of direction, but the far right organized their base by using churches, by throwing money behind their media, and by throwing money into creating astroturf groups. They encouraged their base to run for those local positions, from school board to city council to dog catcher, any place that the Reagan Revolution could be spread. The Reagan Revolution was all about using money to organize the angry base and to change the hearts and minds of those who were not angry into being angry and "concerned".

And let's not forget that another far right group, the Koch Libertarian Party, did the same. From 1% in 1980 to taking over the GOP by 2016, big money was thrown into the Koch vision for America.

I tell you, enlightened, big money has already been thrown at the state level to implement the far right Koch vision, hedging their bets/finding it more subversive and easier to go this route than continue an upfront national campaign. This big money and far right groups will go into attack mode and pour money into fighting back and trying to convince people to retreat. To paraphrase, it will be a long, strange battle.

..... I think I've been preaching to the choir... anyway, thanks for reading.... make sure everyone you organize stay strong and turn anger into productive effort.... I think you will....

a reply to: enlightenedservant

So if you believe in all of those things how can you support Hillary? She does not stand for anything and is a known corrupt criminal.

Everything she says is a blatant lie. I do not understand how people buy into it. If Hitler was alive today and said he was a Democrat you guys would be lining up right behind him too. It is insanity.

originally posted by: Winstonian
a reply to: enlightenedservant

So if you believe in all of those things how can you support Hillary? She does not stand for anything and is a known corrupt criminal.

Everything she says is a blatant lie. I do not understand how people buy into it. If Hitler was alive today and said he was a Democrat you guys would be lining up right behind him too. It is insanity.

Did you even read my post? Because I directly answered your question when I said this:

Trump & the other Repubs are in direct opposition to nearly all of these. And needless to say, Hillary's positions are more in line with our priorities than the right wing is on these issues and the other things we care about. That's why some of us will support her over Trump. Though to be fair, I still can't stand her and think she's way too far on the right in many issues. But I'd still prefer her over Trump and any other Repub candidate.

The Hitler comment was so ridiculous that I won't even address it, especially since today's actual NeoNazis and white supremacist groups are on the right wing.

But for kicks and giggles, let's assume we were negotiating for a second. If we did vote for Trump, what would we get in return? Would his Republican administration place actual socialists and progressives in Cabinet positions? Would he nominate liberal judges to the Supreme Court? Would his administration champion women's rights issues, LGBT issues, and the concerns of the "Occupy Wall St." and "Black Lives Matter" movements? Would his administration increase funding for social programs and fight to increase the minimum wage to $12-$15/hr? Will his administration address our concerns about renewable energies and climate change? And how would his administration treat Hispanic Americans and Muslim Americans?

And here's the big question. Even if a Trump administration agreed to implement our positions on these topics, why should we believe he'd be able to get a GOP controlled Congress to pass laws favorable to our positions? The GOP isn't even united behind him now. So why should we believe he'll be able to get them to implement our priorities when they've been fighting those very policies for decades?

I don't believe Hillary will implement all of our policy positions. But I know her administration will implement more of them that a Republican administration would.

a reply to: desert

Thanks. And you're exactly right. Too many of us have been distracted by the Presidential campaigns and completely lost track of all of the other positions in the system. I think that's one of the reasons the GOP has quietly captured a majority of governorships and State legislatures. They're far more organized than they let on.

And unlike a lot of sections on the Left, they actually encourage each other to run for those types of positions. So there's a never ending pool of potential candidates for them. I honestly think they try to make govt jobs and positions seem horrible specifically so they can keep those positions for themselves.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Sounds like some reasonable requests. Too bad Hillary and the entire left use and abuse the marginalized communities in our country. If you think they care about any of those groups, you are mistaken. You are being used. Our marginalized communities are being used.

For what?

Votes. The reason why they pander to you, yet never really do anything to help you.

I read everything you posted, I just was in disbelief that you buy into the rhetoric and lies. It just goes to show that the mainstream media is extremely powerful. It's interesting too, because you do not seem like an unintelligent person.

I don't like Trump. But you couldn't force me to vote for that the crooked Hillary campaign. Her husband is a womanizing rapist that cares nothing for women's rights. Hillary is ANTI LGBT, and always has been. Hillary has been in bed with the REAL racists of this country for her entire career. Not to mention that the Clinton's hang out with one of the most notorious pedophile sex rings in the USA.

The only thing I can see that is better about Trump, is that he might very well be on the outside of the establishment. And taking that longshot beats the HELL out of voting for Clinton.

Clinton's and the pedohile
gawker.com... hile-billio-1681039971
KKK and the Clinton's
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

I know these stories are old. But if you KNOW all of these things, then how can you possibly vote for her.

I am sure you are a decent person, but it truly disgusts me to my core. This is one of the most vile evil human beings on the planet and I cannot believe anyone would support her.

Question: Would YOU hang out with Epstein? If the answer is no, then you should be morally appalled at anyone voting for Clinton. ANYONE that condones or associates with KNOWN pedophiles are NO BETTER than pedophiles.

But hey, there are a lot of famous pedophiles through history that people follow, right?

a reply to: Winstonian

No offense but you completely ignored the main points I made. You keep trying to get me to oppose Hillary while completely ignoring the fact that Trump and his Republican administration will oppose everything I care about. So let me summarize this:

1. I'm not a Hillary supporter. I've said a lot right here on ATS. I'm a far left/treehugging/SJW/ideologue/socialist who's only supporting Bernie because his platform is the closest to my own.

2. You saw the lists I've made on some of the left wing/progressive policies that I stand for, right? Keep those in mind because those are just some of the things I care about.

3. The Republican Party has been fighting those policies and my priorities for decades. And that idiot Trump is also opposing those policies.

4. Hillary's more likely to implement my policies and priorities than any Republican is. And guess what? No matter what Trump and his supporters say, he's still running as a Repub and his administration will be filled with Repubs. Helping him rise to power will directly hurt my preferred policy positions far more than a Hillary administration will.

5. Because of the first 4 points, I'm either going to vote for Hillary or Jill Stein. It will entirely depend on how close the race is in my State.

And for the record, do you really think you can fool me into thinking the Republican Party cares more about my priorities than the Democratic Party does? I'm a Muslim. The Repubs in my State have been fighting every new mosque we try to build. And Trump doesn't even want me or my family here, even though my bloodlines have been here longer than his. Not to mention, I've literally been fighting racists since I was in elementary school. Repubs don't even want me have a job here or vote here (do an ATS search for the thread about "African American names to see just a glimpse of what I'm talking about). And Repubs sure aren't going to implement any of my preferred policies.

But somehow you think I'll ignore all of my actual life experiences to vote for that idiot Trump just because you and the other people in similar threads say I should? Really? LOL! Not gonna happen, buddy. You're better off trying to convince the Sun to turn into an apple. Even when obviously trying to pander for our votes, Trump supporters can't bring themselves to lie and say they'd help implement our socialist policies or include liberals and progressives in their administrations.

I shake my head in disbelief at people who spout off, "You are being used!", and then go on talking from a list of propaganda they've been fed. I can't believe people say "both sides are the same" and then go on talking about differences. I even hear it from some family members. There are times at ATS I want to push the Reply button and write, "Hi, [ ]. How ya doin'?"

Make America Rational Again. Four decades of the Reagan Revolution has been enough. Time for the Bernie Revolution, and it can only be fought from the side capable of being pushed to carry it out, the Democratic Party.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

That's fine. Don't vote for Trump. Voting for anything is better than voting for Hillary.

Just know that when you do vote for her, you are supporting pedophilia and rape.

I wonder what Bill will be doing when he gets back in the White House?

originally posted by: Winstonian
a reply to: enlightenedservant

That's fine. Don't vote for Trump. Voting for anything is better than voting for Hillary.

Just know that when you do vote for her, you are supporting pedophilia and rape.

I wonder what Bill will be doing when he gets back in the White House?

LOL Please save your weak attempts at shaming for someone else. That crap doesn't work on me.


If I vote for her, I'm supporting an increased minimum wage, an increase in women's rights issues, and the other things I've already listed. It's kind of sad that you simply can't seem acknowledge that.

Ironically, this is making it easier for me to actually vote for her, just to spite the people like you who don't know when to back off. lol

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Which means if they support your agendas, then the criminal history element and the dishonesty is tolerated.
Okay, at least you aren't shy about showing selfishness and a self serving attitude. And not surprisingly, that is exactly how Clinton and all the left politicians act. Birds of a feather. Perfect

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Sorry but that's just stupid. Everyone should vote based on their own needs and priorities. That's literally the point in "one person, one vote". Only an idiot would vote for a party that is against everything that voter cares about. Come back to me when Repubs and Libertarians are willing to nominate liberal judges or increase funding for the social safety net.

But using your argument, I guess you condone and support everything your candidates/party have ever said or done, right? I guess that makes you fair game for collective blame and collective guilt, right?

a reply to: enlightenedservant

1. I'm not a Hillary supporter. I've said a lot right here on ATS. I'm a far left/treehugging/SJW/ideologue/socialist who's only supporting Bernie because his platform is the closest to my own.

We're like twins!!



Also, did winston happen to say what "notorious pedophile ring" the Clintons hang out with?
Silliness.

a reply to: Winstonian

That's fine. Don't vote for Trump. Voting for anything is better than voting for Hillary.

Just know that when you do vote for her, you are supporting pedophilia and rape.

That's ridiculous. You got proof of this vile allegation?
(Not some harebrained source like Breitbart or Beck, either - PROOF. Actual documentation and/or recorded video.)

I swear the Founding Fathers were pretty much right when they only wanted educated people to be able to vote.