MH17 crash: Victims' families sue Putin and Russia

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The Russians provided their radar data quickly. Kiev has still not provided theirs, which would include how and why MH17 was given different routing and a lower altitude assignment when entering their airspace.

The West has proved nothing at all except that it is covering up the truth, as it so often does.

That's for Skywatcher 44

We have already seen in detail all the explanation about the origin of the Buk missile, from construction to its passage to Ukraine in 1991 to the launch against MH17.

A question remain : Why was it flying over a war zone ? Can Mark Rutte or maybe some of the fancy NATO cybergenerals or maybe Rob Bertholee explain how come that MH17 was flying over that war zone ?
Was the plan to fly right over Ukraine, or was it different, but somehow onboard instruments had some glitch ?

originally posted by: Flanker86
A question remain : Why was it flying over a war zone ?

That question has been answered many times. Basically, no one had declared that part of Ukraine a no fly zone. Crimea was a no fly zone due to Russian occupation, but not that part of Ukraine.

If you want remaining questions. It's this. Why did a Russian missile launcher shoot the airliner down when Ukrainian military aircraft were not flying ten miles high. That's what the Russians have failed to answer.

originally posted by: Flanker86
We have already seen in detail all the explanation about the origin of the Buk missile, from construction to its passage to Ukraine in 1991 to the launch against MH17.

A question remain : Why was it flying over a war zone ? Can Mark Rutte or maybe some of the fancy NATO cybergenerals or maybe Rob Bertholee explain how come that MH17 was flying over that war zone ?
Was the plan to fly right over Ukraine, or was it different, but somehow onboard instruments had some glitch ?

The flight received a change in routing and altitude when it entered Ukrainian airspace. Kiev has remained silent about that since the beginning. It has kept all its ATC records hidden since the beginning, and the Spanish controller who exposed the ruse early on Twitter has never been heard from again.

Clearly, SOMEBODY has SOMETHING to hide.

a reply to: Salander

Except that according to the transponder it didn't change course or altitude. Did they fake that in real time too? Damn they're good!

a reply to: Salander

You mean the Spanish man that came out earlier this year that admitted to being paid $48,000 by the Russians to pretend he was an air traffic controller?

a reply to: Zaphod58


Great, you have some ATC data that Kiev finally released? I would love to see that if you have it.

However, if it is provided by Bellingcat, well....

a reply to: Salander

It came directly from the transponder of the aircraft. It shows no major course changes and the aircraft maintaining altitude until the signal is lost. So unless Kiev changed their course when they took off, they didn't alter the flight in any way.

a reply to: Zaphod58


I understand English, and I know how transponders work. I'm asking HOW you know what you have claimed. I'm asking if you could provide some proof of what you claim.

I'm curious if maybe Kiev has finally released its records all these years later. Again, if Bellingcat has provided this information, I shall certainly consider the source.

According to early accounts in 2014, the clearance delivered in Holland was changed as to routing and altitude about when the aircraft entered Ukrainian airspace.

Routing and altitude changes are common here in US airspace, and I've never flown in Europe. The routing change took it to where it was shot down, and the altitude was lowered at way less than the halfway point for that long trip, according to Malaysian authorities early in the game. Why and who is responsible for that would be interesting to know, but Kiev has kept it all a big secret.

a reply to: Salander

The aircraft made a slight course change, at the request of the crew. They were slightly left of the airway they had planned for. There was no significant course change to get them to where they were shot down. The request was made due to weather. The crew also declined to climb higher when they were cleared to 35000 feet. They were well above the maximum altitude of the closed airspace they were traveling over at the time.

But of course since this all comes from the CVR it'll just be waved away.

a reply to: Zaphod58


So you say sir, so you say. It is interesting that you provide no "link" or other source to support your claim.

Back when this happened 4 years ago, the Malaysian authorities made statements that contradict yours. So too there were photos and videos and witness statements that contradicted the official narrative. They were quickly taken down, showing that somebody had something to hide.

Like so many other events these days, this was an inside job. That's why Kiev has never released its ATC records for public scrutiny.

The cover-up shows this to be an inside job.

a reply to: Salander

So information by politicians before actual data is decoded are always accurate. Got it.

Those other sources were shown to be bull#. The main "witness" Carlos was shown to be a fraud with other incidents as well. But don't let that get im your way. It's not an official source so has to be right. The only time that Kiev altered their course, it was as they were being shot down.

The crew had requested to fly 20nm (37km) to the left of airway L980 about 20min before the loss of the aircraft.

Flightglobal had previously reported that surveillance data had indicated evidence of a possible deviation due to weather as the aircraft passed Dnipropetrovsk.

The Dutch Safety Board has also disclosed that, a few minutes before, the crew of MH17 initially declined to climb from 33,000ft to the aircraft’s planned cruising altitude of 35,000ft.

www.flightglobal.com...

a reply to: Zaphod58


No, questions asked by other countries and governments, like "what happened to my airplane?" wondered why the clearance it had received on the ground with normal procedures was changed just before the airplane was destroyed. Normal questions for curious people.

The Dutch Safety Board is rather like the Warren Commission. It's there to protect the guilty parties and cobble something together to satisfy a very distracted citizenry.

originally posted by: Salander
No, questions asked by other countries and governments, like "what happened to my airplane?"

Apart from Russia, which other countries are contesting the accuracy, or thoroughness of the Dutch Safety Board's report, or the current criminal investigation? Does anyone - apart from Russia - dispute the main finding that a Russian Buk launcher carried out this atrocity?

a reply to: Salander

Isn't funny how we go from "route changes are normal" to "it's a conspiracy because they changed their route", and totally ignore the bit about the crew requesting it.

a reply to: paraphi


Does it matter? There was a time when most humans believed the earth to be orbited by the sun, the earth to be the center of the universe.

In this case, the cover-up shows the truth. Somebody, the accusers and story tellers, have something to hide. That's why early photos, videos and statements have been quickly suppressed and removed from the internet. The most obvious was the BBC actions, and I happened to be lucky enough to see the pictures and stories removed.

The Russians were framed, perhaps for their actions in Crimea, perhaps just for other reasons.

a reply to: Zaphod58


Route changes are normal, but like so many things in life, it is a matter of degree.

The point here is that the route and altitude changes for MH17 very conveniently placed the flight squarely in harms way, and Kiev has refused to provide ATC records to the public since the beginning.

For those of us who think like detectives, somebody has something to hide, and the cover-up means something.

a reply to: Salander

The official narrative pretty much hasn't changed once since the tragedy. Certain details may have become more clear but they always suspected Ukrainian separatists using a Russian provided BUK downed MH17 on accident. Meanwhile the Russians have gone out of their way to provide numerous contradicting narratives. All of them backed up by fabricated evidence.

Why does that not make you suspicious of their motives?

a reply to: Salander

And yet, you completely ignore the fact that the route change was requested by the crew. Once again there was no altitude change. They were at the same altitude the entire time. Kiev tried to take them HIGHER and the crew declined.

a reply to: Zaphod58


C'mon Z, you have made that claim, but never even provided a source.

Information public at the time of the accident contradicts your Bellingcatish claims, sorry.