EgyptAir flight from Paris to Cairo has vanished from Radar

I remember reading somewhere there was a break in communication with the pilot... some 30 minutes or so. He didn't respond to pleas even on an emergency line.

I assume if something was wrong with the plane the pilot would have communicated so. Also if it were a terrorist attack I assume the terrorist would want to make them self known unless they did prior?

Also this morning local news is reporting debris has been found from the plane and they are fiercely looking for the black box.

a reply to: elysiumfire

No, plug doors cannot be opened during flight.

Nor can emergency exits.

a reply to: MamaJ

I have not seen / heard of this report in anything I've read.

a reply to: MamaJ

It was reported as 10 minutes and if there's a problem with the plane they're not worrying about talking they're worrying about flying.

Flyingclaydisk:

No, plug doors cannot be opened during flight. Nor can emergency exits.

Yeah. Just reading up on it. So, these facts adjust the speculative causal scenarios...either some form of mechanical failure, or an act of terrorism? The radio silence and the lack of a distress call would seem to rule out mechanical failure.

a reply to: elysiumfire

Not at all. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. Steps 1-9 on the emergency checklist are "fly the damn plane", and somewhere around step 19 is "talk to the ground".

a reply to: Zaphod58

I agree and disagree to an extent. In an extreme situation protocol dictates at least getting a "mayday" out at some point.

MS 804 had plenty of time to do at least that much. I mean look at the AS 261 profile, and they got a mayday out (while inverted, struggling for control and descending at -13,300fpm).

Excerpt from AS 261 CVR...

....

16:19:24 F/O: You feel that?
16:19:26 CAPT: Yea.
16:19:29 CAPT: Ok gimme sl....
16:19:33 [Sound of two clicks similar to the sound of slat/flap movement]
16:19:37 [Sound of extremely loud nose and the sound of background noise increasing, which continued until the end of the recording] [Sound of loose articles moving around in the cockpit]
16:19:43 F/O: Mayday
16:19:49 CAPT: Push and roll, push and roll.
16:19:54 CAPT: Ok, we are inverted...and now we gotta get it.
16:20:04 CAPT: Push push push...push the blue side up.
16:20:16 CAPT: Ok now lets kick rudder...left rudder left rudder.
16:20:18 F/O: I can't reach it.
16:20:20 CAPT: Ok right rudder...right rudder.
16:20:38 CAPT: Gotta get it over again...at least upside down we're flying.
16:20:49 [Sounds similar to engine compressor stalls and engine spool down]
16:20:54 CAPT: Speedbrakes.
16:20:55 F/O: Got it.
16:20:56 F/O: Ah here we go.
16:20:57.1 F/O: [End of recording]

a reply to: jappee

A 737 or Airbus can fly easily with one engine inoperative even at gross weight, hot and high environment. Crews train for this and aircraft are certified for it. As for aircraft flying with a wing missing, the become a lawn dart no control what so ever. Plane is no longer controllable at all.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Yes, you should at some point, but if you're flying along, at the point where the human body is normally at its lowest (as this flight was), and suddenly, let's say, the side of your plane blows out, even a trained pilot is going to have a moment of panic as they try to figure out what just happened. Then they're going to get so busy trying to solve the problem and before you know it, it's too late.

originally posted by: jappee
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I would think that the earlier reports of bodies found to be a sure sign of the crash site, but...meh.. I guess officials need more to give a statement.

Reference Bodies or Body Parts, and luggage for that matter, lets not forget, this is the Mediterranean. Lots of people trying to cross it at the moment and for quite a time previously too now, there have been lots of people who have drowned when boats have capsized, lots of people!

So .... is what they found from the refugee crisis / people smuggler crisis or from a plane crash?

Who knows until confirmed

CbG

a reply to: Zaphod58

Hence my point, yes, when the "side of your plane blows out", I agree.

Short of that catastrophic of an event (i.e. almost certainly of terrorist origin), a mayday would be procedure.

a reply to: HickoryStick

So we agree..

a reply to: corblimeyguvnor

So .... is what they found from the refugee crisis / people smuggler crisis or from a plane crash?

Who knows until confirmed

And we agree as well

Just trying to make sense of this event...

a reply to: Zaphod58

I keep reading longer than 10 minutes??

Seems to me something would have had to happen pretty quickly to the aircraft for the pilot not to signal mayday.

Greek controllers had talked to the pilot at 2:48 a.m. local time in Greece (1:48 a.m. in Paris and Cairo), when the plane was near a Greek island, and all had been well. But at 3:27 a.m. local time (2:27 a.m. in Paris and Cairo), controllers tried to reach the pilots to transfer control to Cairo authorities and received no response. The plane passed into Egyptian airspace two minutes later, then its signal dropped from radar 13 kilometers (8 miles) south-southeast of Kumbi, an aviation reporting point in the Mediterranean. What happened to the EgyptAir flight? The aircraft was cruising at 37,000 feet, considered the safest part of the flight, in clear, calm weather conditions. Then, upon entering Egypt's airspace, the aircraft swerved then plunged dramatically, Greek Defense Minister Panos Kammenos told reporters in Athens. "At 3:37 a.m. local time, immediately after the aircraft entered Cairo airspace at 37,000 feet, the aircraft swerved 90 degrees left and then 360 degrees to the right, and descended from 37,000 feet to 15,000 feet and then 10,000 feet when we lost the signal," he said.

www.virginiafirst.com...


Also, was there a distress call or signal?
Two hours later?

A distress signal was detected at 4:26 a.m. -- almost two hours after the jet vanished -- in the general vicinity where it disappeared, said EgyptAir Vice President Ahmed Adel. He said the distress signal could have come from another vessel in the Mediterranean. Egyptian armed forces said they had not received a distress call. A distress call is how a plane signals there is an emergency -- and doesn't have to be a pilot alerting authorities with a "Mayday" call.

a reply to: MamaJ

The signal they received later wasn't a distress call, it was an ELT signal, which is automatic and only sends out a beeping type signal.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Considering they dove 22,000 feet that fast, I'd have to say it was something catastrophic. But that still doesn't necessarily mean terrorism had to cause it. An Aloha 243, with an improper reaction by the crew, or a slow depressurization followed by a fuselage blow out could have caused the same reaction.

No one has reported, and I have yet to see, any report of the horizontal radius in which the alleged 90 degree and 360 degree turns took place, nor how close they were together...nor the altitudes/descent rates before during or after these turns. Much of the media is spouting off about these turns like they were controlled turns. They may just be one series of simultaneous events taking place with an aircraft completely out of control.

Of course, terrorism aside, the complete loss of a horizontal stabilizer coupled with the slightest bank angle could result in a graveyard spiral.

Just a thought, i think its about time the pilots had cameras on the outside of commercial aircraft, maybe 2 facing forward and 2 facing backward, they can then see in real-time exactly what has happened externally. These cameras should also link up with the flight recorder to be recorded with all the telemetry giving investigators all full picture of what happened.

The flight recorders should also be made to be ejected in water and float on the surface, and also have a locater signal that lasts longer than 30 days.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
About mid-day yesterday there was an article about a US (unnamed of course) "intelligence official" who stated there were some "infrared" and other (spectral) images which indicated a fireball in the area at the time of the disappearance. I can't find those stories now, and I guess that's the point...what happened to them? Or was this an intelligence slip with some classified info?

ETA...I originally saw the story via a link off of Drudge.

I remember reading that also. After a quick google i found this:

www.thedailybeast.com...

"...a military satellite using infrared technology detected a flash at the time and location where the airplane was last tracked " (NBC news)

Further, it says there are no signs of an explosion as of yet. Ok, so a flash then. Anyone care to explain what a flash on infrared could be in this case?

a reply to: Moohide

They won't allow it because too many ufos will get caught on camera. They don't want that