"If God existed, how could he let such horrible things happen to innocent people?"

originally posted by: sekerofknowlege
"If God existed, how could he let such horrible things happen to innocent people?"

Philosophically, the question is fraught with unsupported and unsupportable premises such as;
That if there is God, what makes the author assume that this God is 'different' then the Universe, and that while 'different', diddles with stuff in the Universe. Interferes.
This notion is such unsupportable nonsense as to be philosophically meaningless.
The notion of a 'horrible thing' is meaningless, an arbitrary and emotional notion!
One man's 'horrible' is another man's 'exquisite'!
And then there is the entire ignorant and emotional and superstitious notion of 'innocent' people.
Can there even be such a thing?
And the juvenile notion that if something is Painful, or discomforts you in any way, it is 'bad/evil'... 'horrible'!

“Suffering is a gift. In it is hidden mercy.”
― Rumi

“The wound is the place where the Light enters you.”
--- Rumi

"I say that next to God there is no nobler thing than suffering. Right suffering is the mother of all virtues, for right suffering so subdues the heart, it cannot rise to pride but perforce is lowly." - Meister Eckhart

"Harkee, all rational souls! The swiftest steed to bear you to your goal is suffering; none shall ever taste eternal bliss but those who stand with Christ in depths of bitterness. Nothing is more gall-bitter than suffering, nothing so honey-sweet as to have suffered. The most sure foundation for this perfection is humility, for he whose nature here creeps in deepest depths shall soar in spirit to highest height of Deity.' - Meister Eckhart

"The growth of the soul in man is as that of a pearl in an oyster, both being caused by irritation." - Plato

Pain and Blessing/Bliss are One Reality!
The only difference is a matter of Perspective!
"The immature run from Pain, the Wise find the Blessing within!" - n

"Only a Breaking Heart can Love!" - n

a reply to: GodEmperor

Huh, you just proved it is a good analogy.

You said " It would be better stated for a counterfeit dollar to exist, there must be a real one. " which is just the inverse.

Yes it is absolutely true for evil to exist good must exist. However good can exist without evil, just as a genuine bill can exist without a counterfeit.

Zoroastrianism is perhaps the source for the myth of dualism, but classical Judaism is definitely NOT dualistic.

Trying to misapply the analogy to pretend it implies "God is money" and "poverty is sin" is beyond ridiculous.

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: sekerofknowlege

How do animals do good deeds?

No one is good but God, ergo no one does truly good deeds. This is why the eastern view of reincarnation although interesting fails.

Nothing imperfect can by itself become perfect, as every action - thought, word, deed, is imperfect, the result of imperfection stacked on imperfection cannot become perfect.

This is why God is a Saviour. Only by intervention, spiritual rebirth, and not physical rebirth, can oneness with God be attained.

Then it's obvious there's no god, except for people that pray. If something works out, then these deluded people will say "God answered my prayers". If something doesn't go as planned the same people will say "It is God's will that it didn't work out". Either way these people can play both sides of the coin in justifying their belief in an imaginary space being.

a reply to: RudeCherub

No one is good but God

Empty rhetoric that leads us back to the original question. If god is good and perfect, why is its creation imperfect and "evil"?

originally posted by: windword
Empty rhetoric that leads us back to the original question. If god is good and perfect, why is its creation imperfect and "evil"?

That's the thing most Theists, who differ from Deists for those unaware, do not realise: the arguments they present are often very circular, illogical and inadequate.

Take your mortal glasses off.

What happens here is nothing compared to eternity.


God made everyting, and he can do with his creations as he sees fit. Its his field, theres no referees.

Youre either on the right side or the bad side.

Theres no room for your feelings in the cosmos, sit down snowflakes

As the Roman Catholics are so fond of saying, God granted us 'free will' so we only have ourselves to blame for our misfortune, how many people thank god for winning a bet? damn quick to blame him for loosing though!

a reply to: pikestaff

I see what you're saying, but to address your analogy; to gamble on a bet youre stepping outside the "suggested" use of your resources. You cant thank Him for winning, but you can thank Him for the lesson learned from losing money or property on some wager.

Its not as if He is waiting with a lightning bolt for you to sin, he set out guidelines for us to follow to make our lives more stable and some ways predictable. If you take chances playing with fire, you can get burned. Not Gods Holy Fire or something, but rather the wrath and unpredictable nature of Man's free will.

a reply to: RudeCherub

Such is your own opinion. Although there is so much flaw in the savior logic as well. So enjoy your opinion.

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: sekerofknowlege

Pigs, birds, bugs, I don't consider these "lesser beings" as you referred to them as. That's all I care to comment on at this point

Right. Maybe if you're Really lucky, you'll be reincarnated as an ant, and be a part of a just and orderly society that actually makes sense!

There's only one answer to these threads and I will always come back to it:

a reply to: 3n19m470

Maybe if you're Really lucky, you'll be reincarnated as an ant, and be a part of a just and orderly society that actually makes sense!

Maybe ants are really lucky because they're all tuned into the "will of god" through their hive minded colonies. Isn't that what humanity would have been like, exercising no free will, not having disobeyed and eaten the apple, living our lives doing nothing but the will of our hive leader, "god". Like god's angels!

originally posted by: Quantumgamer1776
So god creates cancer, gives it to kids, to raise awareness of his creation.
Then he crashes a car full of innocent people to raise our awareness of car crashes or something?
He destroys the Tower of Babel, separates the people by race and gives them all different languages, creating separation so we don't become to powerful. Then allows wars to unfold so that we are more aware of the atrocities war brings.
Seems like he should have spent a couple extra days making us more aware in the first place.
All makes perfect sence to me though......

We create all kinds of things and destroy them without giving it a second thought. We destroy cars, houses, computers, ect.. We think nothing of it. We test all kinds of crap on animals and we could care less. We destroy, create, test and experiment. Whats your point?

The God deniers have done way more to harm humans than God ever has...

a reply to: Rocker2013

Fantastic answer. I've stated it before I don't believe in god however if by some chance the Christian/Jewish God is real I wouldn't want to worship such a vile being anyways.

a reply to: RepealTheLaw

Your last sentence is not accurate at all. First off the death count by god in the bible far exceeds the death count by god deniers. Secondly god created us like this and yet he is not responsible for it?

Then there are the Holy wars. The crusades the witch burning. The jihadists. None of which would have occurred without a peoples belief in some kind of god.

Thirdly if god is all powerful he could end drought, starvation, disease , addiction all with a wave of his finger but he chooses not to. So don't paint god deniers as the ones who have caused trouble.

a reply to: Joecanada11

Those atrocities would and will happen without a God being, its just another vehicle to subdue believers and brain wash them into doing the worst to people who dont believe the same thing.

Look at the Bolshevik, Cambodian, Argentinian.. well most communist and socialist government's revolutions, they kill people without needing an excuse like a God.

Outlaw religion and peole will still find secular ways of killing each other.

Humans are the problem, not some God

a reply to: Butterfinger

Thing is that an actual god being could put an end to all atrocities. If there truly is an all powerful god it would be able to show itself to all mankind across the globe and change humanity forever. Hence I believe not in said being.

You are correct humankind is the problem.

because our reality is self evident, and he told us through prophets and interpretters whats also real for us. that good people dont do enough to stop the bad. but sometimes the bad is overwhelming, or comes at the worst times.

a reply to: sanitizedinfo

Anyone can claim to be a prophet of god. People do it all the time so should we listen to them ? People claim to hear from alien civilizations but Christians say that's nonsense yet believe god talked to people because it was recorded a a few thousand years ago.