Is Donald Trump a thug? Are we going to see more violence at political rallies?

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: UKTruth

There is even a potential alliance between them and moveon.org that i am currently investigating.

They are both non-profit Progressive political action groups. That is not illegal. I'm sure there is a large overlap in membership, along with Greenpeace and the Sierra Club. That is the freedom of association guaranteed by the Constitution. Do you have a problem with that?

I don't have a problem with it , no. I just don't put much weight on a progressive movement's views of the rights and wrongs on progressive terrorism as we saw in Chicago (and other places)

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: queenofswords

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: queenofswords

Anyone that writes for that "rag" is supposed to have footnotes and sources quoted according to their own rules for submissions. There were none in that article, so I took it with a grain of salt and a heavy dose of probable lies.

Since when does a first person account require footnotes?

Did you even read your own article?

Clearly, you didn't:

As professors at the University of Illinois at Chicago, where the Trump rally was held, we were personally involved in the events of March 11 at the Make America Great Again! rally.

www.truth-out.org...

There are eye witness statements that say violence started before the cancellation, at odds with what this man is saying.
Given what I saw on video - not requiring some ones word for it - it seems ludicrous to suggest that the various eye witness statements claiming violence before the cancellation are lying. These protesters showed themselves to be racist, aggressive thugs on video as early as 6pm that night when Trump supporters were still in line.

The thuggery just continues day after day now. How long do you think it will be before Trump supporters react in kind? There is big trouble coming if the progressive thugs don't stop their intimidation and violence.

The other poster I assume was referring to points the author was making where he clearly was not a first person witness. He is therefore correct in saying that the article is not credible.

I want to see video evidence and proper first person accounts. Lets stick to those. The several videos and first person accounts I have contributed at the very least show that moveon.orgs claim of a peaceful loving and courageous protest to be complete bunk.

a reply to: DJW001

Trump has been threatening to kill people who disrupt his Fascist rallies. No-one has stopped him from speaking or assembling. The Constitution gives his opponents the right to speak and assemble as well. (The Bill of Rights are limitations on the government, not citizens.) Trump has made the violent ejection of hecklers a feature of his rallies. If there were no protesters, he would need to hire some for the sake of his brand. If you do not think he is an arrogant, racist bully, his marketing is not working. His entire appeal is to people who find being polite to be onerous, and who consider insults and violence to be a reasonable alternative to discourse.

That's a fair bit of specious conjecture, which just so happens to mirror the very same unwarranted conjecture attributed to the media, who are prone to quote mining, the overuse of ellipses and the propagandistic use of name-calling—sure fire signs of cognitive bias. If you think he is a racist bully, the media's propaganda has payed off in the best way for them. Their ad revenue is probably at its highest.

Actually, if a candidate in a free election in a free society is coerced into cancelling his speeches due to fears of violence, his rights to free speech has been suppressed.

The dialogue here is simple and two-fold:

1. Right wing operatives pretend to be "neutral" even though they condemn anything and everything they don't agree with as leftist, liberal, progressive, idiotic, terrorist, communist, fascist, etc. Presentations made are utterly and ridiculously one-sided, dishonest, and partisan.

2. Progressives, liberals, leftists and Democrats are all exactly the same in this extremist belief structure and they are ALL evil. Cherry-picked examples of bad behavior are expanded and applied to "the enemy" (i.e. anyone who doesn't worship Donald J. Trump)

There's a reason for this ...

CULT OF PERSONALITY ... A cult of personality arises when an individual uses mass media, propaganda, or other methods to create an idealized, heroic, and at times worshipful image, often through unquestioning flattery and praise. (Reference Multiple studies have shown that the focal point of such a cult very often attracts followers of similar personalities (authoritarian, dishonest, prone to insults and personal attacks on anyone who disagrees with them).

Adherents to such cults are known for the inability to reason logically or accept any statement of fact they find "disrespectful" to the object of their worship. Such followers go far beyond any normal boundaries not only in defending their leader, but also, are willing to amass great amounts of "evidence" to prove their claims, misguided as they may be, are beyond question.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
The dialogue here is simple and two-fold:

1. Right wing operatives pretend to be "neutral" even though they condemn anything and everything they don't agree with as leftist, liberal, progressive, idiotic, terrorist, communist, fascist, etc. Presentations made are utterly and ridiculously one-sided, dishonest, and partisan.

2. Progressives, liberals, leftists and Democrats are all exactly the same in this extremist belief structure and they are ALL evil. Cherry-picked examples of bad behavior are expanded and applied to "the enemy" (i.e. anyone who doesn't worship Donald J. Trump)

There's a reason for this ...

CULT OF PERSONALITY ... A cult of personality arises when an individual uses mass media, propaganda, or other methods to create an idealized, heroic, and at times worshipful image, often through unquestioning flattery and praise. (Reference Multiple studies have shown that the focal point of such a cult very often attracts followers of similar personalities (authoritarian, dishonest, prone to insults and personal attacks on anyone who disagrees with them).

Adherents to such cults are known for the inability to reason logically or accept any statement of fact they find "disrespectful" to the object of their worship. Such followers go far beyond any normal boundaries not only in defending their leader, but also, are willing to amass great amounts of "evidence" to prove their claims, misguided as they may be, are beyond question.

There is nothing partisan about using video evidence, eye witness statements and statements directly from the people responsible for the violence. Just because you could provide no substance at all to support you blind hatred, there is no need to continue insults, veiled or otherwise.

I am just watching The Kelly File right now.

One of the people who attended and helped organise the Chicago violence is on. He was asked why he dislikes Trump.

His actual words were....wait for it...

'Because he said Make America White Again'. Oh deary me.

These people are not only thugs, but they are either totally dishonest or plain stupid. This is a leading Black Lives Matter organiser and the person responsible for the 'pigs in a blanket' line. He got rightly corrected on the Make America White Again smear and lie, so reverted to Trump being for the KKK.. absolute joke.

When you look at the actual facts of what has been said or done, the narrative that Trump is either racist or a bigot is complete nonsense. These agitators are organised by the same people who have been dividing and tearing the country apart for a long time. They are no more than an domestic militia for hire, who will cause chaos and anarchy depending on who funds and organises them. Domestic terrorists.

The amazing thing is ... across the internet and even across ATS ... long-term right-wingers and Republicans are looking at the Donald J Trump phenomenon and saying ... "It looks like the Democrats were right all along ..."

Well-known and respected Conservative writer David Brooks in the NYT "No, not Trump, Not Ever"

Donald Trump is epically unprepared to be president. He has no realistic policies, no advisers, no capacity to learn. His vast narcissism makes him a closed fortress. He doesn’t know what he doesn’t know and he’s uninterested in finding out. He insults the office Abraham Lincoln once occupied by running for it with less preparation than most of us would undertake to buy a sofa.

And not only people like Brooks are questioning ...

This week, the Politico reporters Daniel Lippman, Darren Samuelsohn and Isaac Arnsdorf fact-checked 4.6 hours of Trump speeches and press conferences. They found more than five dozen untrue statements, or one every five minutes. “His remarks represent an extraordinary mix of inaccurate claims about domestic and foreign policy and personal and professional boasts that rarely measure up when checked against primary sources,” they wrote.

The Conservative Anti-Trump Strategy Is Taking Shape

“We call for a unity ticket that unites the Republican Party,” said the group, which met Thursday at the Army Navy Club in Washington. Attendees at the meeting included former George W. Bush adviser Bill Wichterman, former Rand Paul adviser Brian Darling and Rep. Trent Franks (R-Ariz.), a vocal supporter of Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas). Erickson, who participated by phone, later issued a statement on behalf of the group. “We believe that the issue of Donald Trump is greater than an issue of party. It is an issue of morals and character that all Americans, not just those of us in the conservative movement, must confront,” the letter said.

Here is the reality about Donald Trump. It's about putting the outsider in control of the 535 public servants who can't seem to control themselves, you are not going to tell a larger part of the population of this country F@?K YOL8U and think that you are going to get away with it, they will come at you by the millions armed to the teeth, even the US military could not stop it , nor do I think they would even try since they want Trump as president, they will put you on display and chop off all 535 of their heads on television. That is the reality of Donald Trump.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: UKTruth

Apart from being clearly organised for hatred and violence and intimidation, they are also as thick as sh**

You've described Trump's supporters to a "T." Why is a Brit so passionate about American politics anyway?

I am just describing those thick as sh** morons protesting in the video. Tell you what, Trump just needs to show that awful woman talking about white privilege and make her the poster child for all that is wrong with America. I am sure 95% of Americans would be disgusted by her.

I am interesting in all political process. I do get very into the primaries and elections every 4 years. Certainly the most interesting election cycle there is. It has a lot to do with the nominee process - which we don't really have in the UK. I have spent a lot of time in the US and have probably seen more of the country that 99.9% of her citizens.

Ok, that explains a lot.

I wondered if you were actually from the east coast.

Haven't heard anyone use that phrase since I left Boston in the early 80's!!

But yes, people would be amazed at that vid, if it got any airplay!

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: UKTruth

By the way - if Trump really loves stupid people, then I am sure he will forgive the violent thugs that stopped his and his supporters' free speech and right to gather peacefully.

Trump has been threatening to kill people who disrupt his Fascist rallies. No-one has stopped him from speaking or assembling. The Constitution gives his opponents the right to speak and assemble as well. (The Bill of Rights are limitations on the government, not citizens.) Trump has made the violent ejection of hecklers a feature of his rallies. If there were no protesters, he would need to hire some for the sake of his brand. If you do not think he is an arrogant, racist bully, his marketing is not working. His entire appeal is to people who find being polite to be onerous, and who consider insults and violence to be a reasonable alternative to discourse.

Wow! now he threatens to kill people?!

Musta missed that one.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: UKTruth

There is even a potential alliance between them and moveon.org that i am currently investigating.

They are both non-profit Progressive political action groups. That is not illegal. I'm sure there is a large overlap in membership, along with Greenpeace and the Sierra Club. That is the freedom of association guaranteed by the Constitution. Do you have a problem with that?

I don't have a problem with it , no. I just don't put much weight on a progressive movement's views of the rights and wrongs on progressive terrorism as we saw in Chicago (and other places)

Swarming and violence are now the progressive's hallmark.

It's their go to when they don't like something.

A lot of warped views here... I know better than to try to get any of you to see reason, but I feel sorry for many of you. I think you've lost your way even though you don't see it.

I feel for you because I completely understand why a guy who is so anti-establishment can seem like the best candidate over any other establishment candidate... but he's just so bad... The good ideas he has... it's like the broken clock that's right twice a day.

His bad side, is scary bad. It's not the media. It's his own words.

originally posted by: DonVoigt
Here is the reality about Donald Trump. It's about putting the outsider in control of the 535 public servants who can't seem to control themselves, you are not going to tell a larger part of the population of this country F@?K YOL8U and think that you are going to get away with it, they will come at you by the millions armed to the teeth, even the US military could not stop it , nor do I think they would even try since they want Trump as president, they will put you on display and chop off all 535 of their heads on television. That is the reality of Donald Trump.

First of all, the President doesn't "command" the Congress to do anything.

Second, there is nothing to suggest that a majority of AMERICANS wants Donald Trump to be President, in fact, every poll suggests the exact OPPOSITE.

Third ... so to summarize, you're advocating for a coup d'etat in which the entire Congress is executed on live TV?

Will there be a subscription charge for the event? Will it be Pay-Per-View from the top of Trump Tower?

(The scariest thing of all is, I'm not sure you're completely incorrect!)

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: UKTruth

There is even a potential alliance between them and moveon.org that i am currently investigating.

They are both non-profit Progressive political action groups. That is not illegal. I'm sure there is a large overlap in membership, along with Greenpeace and the Sierra Club. That is the freedom of association guaranteed by the Constitution. Do you have a problem with that?

I don't have a problem with it , no. I just don't put much weight on a progressive movement's views of the rights and wrongs on progressive terrorism as we saw in Chicago (and other places)

Swarming and violence are now the progressive's hallmark.

It's their go to when they don't like something.

That's exactly right - there are leaders at the top who are using people to fight their fight (which can be summed up by do and think everything we tell you to - the progressive hallmark). It's a militia.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
The amazing thing is ... across the internet and even across ATS ... long-term right-wingers and Republicans are looking at the Donald J Trump phenomenon and saying ... "It looks like the Democrats were right all along ..."

Well-known and respected Conservative writer David Brooks in the NYT "No, not Trump, Not Ever"

Donald Trump is epically unprepared to be president. He has no realistic policies, no advisers, no capacity to learn. His vast narcissism makes him a closed fortress. He doesn’t know what he doesn’t know and he’s uninterested in finding out. He insults the office Abraham Lincoln once occupied by running for it with less preparation than most of us would undertake to buy a sofa.

And not only people like Brooks are questioning ...

This week, the Politico reporters Daniel Lippman, Darren Samuelsohn and Isaac Arnsdorf fact-checked 4.6 hours of Trump speeches and press conferences. They found more than five dozen untrue statements, or one every five minutes. “His remarks represent an extraordinary mix of inaccurate claims about domestic and foreign policy and personal and professional boasts that rarely measure up when checked against primary sources,” they wrote.

The Conservative Anti-Trump Strategy Is Taking Shape

“We call for a unity ticket that unites the Republican Party,” said the group, which met Thursday at the Army Navy Club in Washington. Attendees at the meeting included former George W. Bush adviser Bill Wichterman, former Rand Paul adviser Brian Darling and Rep. Trent Franks (R-Ariz.), a vocal supporter of Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas). Erickson, who participated by phone, later issued a statement on behalf of the group. “We believe that the issue of Donald Trump is greater than an issue of party. It is an issue of morals and character that all Americans, not just those of us in the conservative movement, must confront,” the letter said.

I think you have completely missed the point - this is not about right vs left. It's about establishment control vs freedom. If you have not figured that out yet then you have not been paying attention. This is why the GOP are trying so hard to stop Trump.
They are doing it through political process and attack ad dollars. The left are doing it through organised violence and media spin. These are the final attempts by the established order to keep control.

They may succeed this time (I think they probably will) but what really started in earnest in 2012 through Ron Paul, so it has grown and continued with Trump (and Sanders to an extent). This does not mean Trump and Paul are allies, the face of the movement doesn't matter. There is inherent danger in this, of course, but I think far less danger than letting the current establishment continue to destroy society and continue the transfer of wealth to the few.

Even if Trump does not become POTUS, the movement is unstoppable. No amount of organised violence and no amount of money on media is going to stop it. As for the news media - it is not going to survive in it's current format.

a reply to: UKTruth

I haven't missed any point, I just don't see these matters in your rather "unique" way. What balderdash, that Trump in any way, shape form or fashion represents "freedom." You keep trying to be insulting here to folks who point out your logical fallacies and who see through your agenda clearly but you keep failing because everything you say is couched in the very ESSENCE of the narrative you "claim" to be posting in opposition to.

You don't get much more "establishment" than a billionaire who has rubbed shoulders for decades with the worldwide power brokers. Donald's been planning this little shindig since 1988; the only thing that Trump is about is the TRUMP brand, and now, he's got absolutely free WORLD WIDE advertising for that Brand 24/7.

The fact that you, in one breath decry the illusion of "right and left" and then make specious post after posting trying to prop up your imagined "assault" on the leftist movement you claim is so ubiquitous and well-organized is the epitome of the exact kind of dishonest empty rhetoric that passes for "political discussion" today.

Wherever you're from and whatever your real agenda is ... anyone who cares to look sees quite clearly what you are about.

#welcomebacktoignore

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Actually, if a candidate in a free election in a free society is coerced into cancelling his speeches due to fears of violence, his rights to free speech has been suppressed.

It was not cancelled out of fear of violence. Violence is as much a feature of Trump rallies as "cripples" being "healed" are a part of religious revival meetings:



The rally in Chicago was not cancelled out of fear of violence; it was cancelled because the Chicago and Campus police would not allow Trump's security detail to be in control of it.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

I haven't missed any point, I just don't see these matters in your rather "unique" way. What balderdash, that Trump in any way, shape form or fashion represents "freedom." You keep trying to be insulting here to folks who point out your logical fallacies and who see through your agenda clearly but you keep failing because everything you say is couched in the very ESSENCE of the narrative you "claim" to be posting in opposition to.

You don't get much more "establishment" than a billionaire who has rubbed shoulders for decades with the worldwide power brokers. Donald's been planning this little shindig since 1988; the only thing that Trump is about is the TRUMP brand, and now, he's got absolutely free WORLD WIDE advertising for that Brand 24/7.

The fact that you, in one breath decry the illusion of "right and left" and then make specious post after posting trying to prop up your imagined "assault" on the leftist movement you claim is so ubiquitous and well-organized is the epitome of the exact kind of dishonest empty rhetoric that passes for "political discussion" today.

Wherever you're from and whatever your real agenda is ... anyone who cares to look sees quite clearly what you are about.

#welcomebacktoignore

I would suggest you do a better job of reading. The progressive terrorists I have been talking about are very much one of the attack dogs of the establishment, but only one. (I did say that earlier )

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Actually, if a candidate in a free election in a free society is coerced into cancelling his speeches due to fears of violence, his rights to free speech has been suppressed.

It was not cancelled out of fear of violence. Violence is as much a feature of Trump rallies as "cripples" being "healed" are a part of religious revival meetings:

The rally in Chicago was not cancelled out of fear of violence; it was cancelled because the Chicago and Campus police would not allow Trump's security detail to be in control of it.

Given the number and size of Trump rallies - if this is the compilation then I think we should conclude that Trump rallies had very little violence heading into Chicago.

Very mild in fact - probably a lot less than an average night in town.

More eye witness statements

www.dangerandplay.com...

originally posted by: UKTruth
More eye witness statements

www.dangerandplay.com...

Even this guy has to admit that the protesters were not violent, just noisy. Trump supporters were afraid because the fearful support Trump.