Shawna Cox Video from Inside LaVoy's Truck

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: Discotech

1. Was the feds that shot at him 1st, they are under investigation
2. refer to #1
3. Police are trained to shoot to kill, not incapacitate. Reaching for a sidearm will always get you shot.

It is amazing that the troopers didn't shoot the feds, bullets coming from every direction is not exactly a good idea.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I think this best sums it up.....

a reply to: imitator

While it is sad he died his actions / beliefs are what caused the problem. Interjecting himself into a situation the Hammond's didn't want them involved in was a problem. Rejecting parts of the Constitution, federal and state laws that he didn't agree with / fit their agenda is a problem.

A "patriot" doesn't pick and choose what laws they will follow based on a selfish agenda.

Finicums actions caused his death. Law enforcement was not involved until they decided to hijack the Hammond's situation for their own agenda and they continued to escalate at every encounter with law enforcement.

He was not murdered. Another example of people substituting law with their own ignorance.

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: Granite
YT Channel

See the entire events from the first stop to the final stop.

LaVoy is murdered at 5:45 mintute mark.

I am mobile so can someone post the video?
Thanks in advance!

I'm surprised at the LEO's restraint for over 5 minutes, that's what I got out of it.

Restraint my ***, this was well planned, and rehearsed... too bad the State Troopers did not FULLY know the extent of the plan, that snipers were placed in positions they had no idea about........

I like David Knight at Infowars and often agree with his perspectives when I listen to him. I consider him to be a man of integrity. He was really upset about Shawna's video, so much so he began to cry, and is sure LaVoy was murdered. I've looked at this whole situation from all angles; I've considered countless people's viewpoints and mainstream and non-mainstream information, but I just can't get behind this as a cold-blooded murder. I agree that LaVoy was NOT a dangerous felon or a dangerous man. I don't think he was nuts or any of that. I agree the road block was lethal force and was unnecessary. I wish LaVoy wasn't dead. I can see how certain higher-ups wanted him dead because of his activities. He was in their way.

I don't always follow the conspiracy crowd when I form my viewpoints though I certainly understand the scope of conspiracy present in this world and often agree with conspiracy being involved in ugly things that happen. Corruption rules. I take everything I possibly can into consideration and ponder on what I have learned. I usually don't automatically jump to conclusions. I'm not affiliated with government or law enforcement or any media. I don't have a bias in that sense. I can't list the considerable amount of information I've sifted through, it would take weeks.

I have comments all over these related threads about what happened in Oregon but I've never been able to use the word murder in this case.

Is there something wrong with my thinking in that I can't label this murder as so many others do? Perhaps it's my esoteric understandings which keep me from making that judgment. Also, LaVoy's own words and actions stop me from doing so. I keep coming back to that in my mind.

Mr. Knight makes his case in this YouTube video excerpt from Infowars Nightly News for the murder of Lavoy Finicum (I hope it hasn't already been posted):

Watch here

a reply to: Xcathdra

I've been reading and watching this situation since it started, and I like the question you seem to be asking; Does a human being in America have the right to defend ones self from a LE agency that appear intent on killing you? My answer is Yes, you do have that right in principle, but actually, you are at the mercy of that official who detains or confronts you, and you'll never win in court if you got there IMO.

There is also a deeper issue here that I've wanted to add for a long time. This was a group of people who were intent on engaging in an occupy style protest which is the status quo presently in America. Put aside for a moment the fact that they had arms, because I don't know anyone in the U.S that does not have firearms, and really, we do not know if other occupy protesters in the last 2 years have had firearms or not, maybe, maybe not, they didn't say, and we probably didn't ask, at least they didn't say so or appear to be. That being aid, the occupiers said they were armed, they were obviously armed, but I am not prove to info about any threats they directly made to Le or the public. There were some threats from the fringe apparently, but it;s difficult to parse out sympathy and crazy loons who show up with a different agenda entirely.

More importantly, this group was challenging the governments right to manage federal land, which is a big issue, considering the BLM alone manages some 245Million Acres of public land. Given the history of the 2014 incident, I believe the biggest motivating factor in this whole incident was to cut off the head off of the opposition, period, eliminate it, derail it, because it challenges over 200 years of law & policy in the U.S, and much like the small country that flips off the U.S and blows something up, it cannot go unanswered. The feds aggravated the situation on the highway, as did the occupy participants by not pulling over and surrendering, but, that does not relieve the federal authorities (who were the official Incident Commanders of the OP) to use some kind of restraint, which we did not see a lot of during the episode.

First, when the white pickup truck takes off, the occupants do not know there is a roadblock as they gain speed as it's a blind corner, and the LE members almost immediately, by their own admission, start firing rifle rounds at the vehicle, creating the sense that everyone in the vehicle was going to be killed. Secondly, as soon as the vehicle avoids hitting the roadblock and plows into a 3' snowbank that any average person would know they can't get through, more shots are fired as the driver exists, hence he had every reason to believe that the LE officers were going to kill him. Try to think of this. as someone mentioned earlier, as one of many provocations that escalated the encounter even further. 3, the driver then exists the vehicle, with hands up, and continues to be shot at, most likely making him believe that yes, they're indeed going to kill him, I really believe that is what the driver believed, and LE officers should be more objective about the results of their actions before those actions are taken, and that they knew that this would further aggravate the driver, and it did, (and they appeared to have lied about it) he was shot dead, in the back, with 1 round piercing his heart.

Going squarely face to face with government power is not something that will never end well for anyone in America, much less with against the feds, who were running the op. I've worked in natural resources for most of my adult life, and I understand how these things get to this stage, because I've been involved in other, non-violent, but similar disagreements with federal & state land management law & etc, and IMO we should never underestimate the desire for the GovMachine to always be in control, always be correct, always be "right", and to always be innocent of any contribution to the escalation of hostilities, because, if that challenge goes unanswered, it will be viewed as weakness, and TPTB will consider that a massive crisis of proportions as this protest was spreading to another County apparently.

It is what it is, and there have been many valid, and many non-valid core issues spoken of. I would hope we could take the opportunity to learn, understand, and attempt to single out the valid issues and get them remedied as peacefully as possible at a state level if not the federal level (not likely, but crazier things have happened on the planet) before we end up in a civil conflagration that we will not be able to extricate our society from very easily, that is what scares me the most about this entire episode.

I'm relatively new here, and this is the 1st time I've made a post of any length really, but I appreciate the outlet, and I enjoy reading most of the comments because they make me think harder than I normally would, so thanks all. Plenty of blame to go around, but I'm not sure we have seen a protest like this before in the U.S, maybe wounded knee part 2 (1970's) would be a close example.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
Whats with all the trigger-happiness post-Finicums killing? I must have counted about 15+ shots over the course of that vid.

You can hear in the womans voice how terrorized she was during that post-killing ordeal.

This certainly puts the FBI under scrutiny because there appeared to me that just as many shots were fired after he was killed as there were shots fired before he was killed.

As I said in another thread, I hope some sort of justice can be afforded to the rule of law, especially when it appears that some FBI agents involved in the incident are now under investigation for their conduct in apprehending Finicum.

This looks like a botched execution.

I don't think they planned on all of them traveling in the van at the same time. They wanted to kill one guy and stage the scene to make it look like he was a shot at them.

There you have it! Irrefutable proof that ol' Tarpman committed suicide by cop. We all knewthat's what happened though.
I like how Shawna Cox's own video proved that LaVern's death was justified and gave the prosecution evidence for several other crimes.
What a bunch of maroons.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

That ruling applies to fleeing felons with the exception of when the person fleeing presents an imminant danger to the police / public at large.

Next time read it all.

Why did they fire at him with his hands out while he was in the car?

Someone has to do ballistic analysis of the audio.

here's the link that the bundy ranch fb page just posted.. not sure if it was posted yet on here or not.. but I"m in totally shock~!!!

Bundy Ranch-LaVoy Assassination 2nd Camera - Enhanced Audio

.........

a reply to: Xcathdra I wholly agree with you that it was a tough situation but this calls for cooler heads. As many have expressed here on ATS, there were options on both sides. However, I do put the lawmen on a different playing field. They should have been trained-this man did not have to die nor endanger his innocent family. This was a abhorrent misuse of law-any way you twist it. Heads need to roll and the whole country is watching. Are we really a perfect union? I don't see and neither do many others. Complete breakdown of law enforcement (local and federal)-heavy).

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: imitator

3 rounds were fired at the truck by OSP in an effort to disable it.
The FBI fired 2 rounds at the roadblock Finicum tried to drive around, almost hitting/killing an officer.
OSP attempted to use a taser.
OSP fired 3 rounds into Finicum when he continued to ignore commands and reached, again, into his coat pocket.

Had Finicum complied when he was first stopped he would be alive. Instead he chose to flee, engage in a pursuit, avoided spike strips and tried to bypass a road block.

Finicum held the cards. Finicums actions led to his death.

He was no hero, in any sense of the word.

You do realize an actual human being died.

It is not like someone lost a game of cards or accidentally bleached their favorite shirt.

a reply to: Xcathdra

This has to be a 2 way road and both sides must communicate with each other to get the changes needed and to reestablish trust.

Trust you say....keep on digging then...
If you want trust from civilians telling us that if we do not comply immediately to LE commands that we will be shot with impunity does little for those bonds of trust...

I can assure you that your stance on this is not helping either....I find it disturbing that your justifications have no humanity at all, it is almost robotic working from a script....

a reply to: Ne3rka I think you expressed very eloquently my exact feelings. Thank you for your post. I, too, am very new here and mostly observe and learn. It is good for my soul to discuss and I am so appreciative of your comments. The video was very upsetting to me.

@ several posters talking about the same thing give or take.

I say this again, with all due respect -

If you continue to substitute law with your personal opinion then you are going to continue having issue with trying to understand the complete situation. I find it contradictory when people demand the police be charged for what people perceive as a law violation while ignoring the actual law violations committed by Finicum / Bundy's.

Ignoring / picking and choosing what laws / elements of the constitution you will follow while ignoring the ones that you don't like does not invalidate them.

I have tried to put the info / laws / court rulings / police procedures out there and attempted to show the LEO side of this situation from a law enforcement perspective.

If you guys wish to continue its up to you however there is nothing else for me to add as we are once again having a circular argument and I don't think I am going to change your minds let alone get you guys to be open minded enough to view the situation from the leo side / understand the leo side.

If you have specific questions feel free to ask and I will try and answer. The debate portion, however, I am done with.

Thanks

a reply to: Xcathdra

My excuse is i'm a human and i clear pre planned intenet to murder . Reading above posts and the reason FBI is under investigation is because they neglected to mention the 2 shots fired by FBI HRT. The question is WHY ? Its very relavant here . Someone above has said this already , FBI already had planned to force a confrontation, fire two shots , make the situation tense enough that the officers on the ground pull the trigger for any movement or percieved threat by the victim and conviniently forget to tell the investigative team about those two shots fired . Doesnt that smack of consipracy ?

And since you quote laws so much , just wanted to ask had it been your family there getting fired upon would you been so vocal about laws ? You are just very very detached to the human factor here , cuz it has no bearing on you .

Why all that discussion?

"An FBI agent is suspected of lying about firing twice at Robert "LaVoy" Finicum and may have gotten help from four other FBI agents in covering up afterward, authorities revealed Tuesday."
(...)
www.oregonlive.com...

Who did everything right and according to the laws, hasn´t to lie and cover up ANYTHING!

a reply to: Foxtrot7x

Except the FBI didn't fire the first 3 shots. OSP did near the end of the pursuit. The FBI then fired twice at the road block, missing once and hitting the truck. OSP tried to taser which dids not work. OSP fired the last 3 shots.

The shootings were justified so im not sure why the fbi went down that road. It has no bearing on the incident itself.

No conspiracy.. Just people seeing what they want while ignoring everything else.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: imitator


He was not murdered. Another example of people substituting law with their own ignorance.

I Disagree and to my knowledge no visual footage from the FRONT HAS BEEN SHOWN to say that he was reaching for a weapon / or tazer wires OR WHATEVER only officer hearsay .... so who s substituting law with their own ignorance

Riouz

Although I admit things would be different if he stepped out of the vehicle at the first traffic stop

a reply to: Indigo5

More lies bro. Why do you only talk about the entry wounds? When confronted by Tweetie THEN you discuss them. Your lying narrative is old hat bro. At least X is doing a great job of making the law clear for people. You are just regurgitating garbage.