UK Referendum 23 June 2016 - Will it be an EU BREXIT or Not?

a reply to: ForteanOrg
Arrogant Eurocrap like that's just makes me want to vote out more.

So not helping the "in" campaign.

a reply to: crazyewok

Lol, the history lesson was accurate though

Hasn't convinced me to stay in the EU though, I only hope the majority of Brits think the same.

a reply to: crazyewok

The thing is though that a lot of the last post was absolutely correct. I disagree about the economic strength, etc, but mostly it was a post based in fact.

Economically, we are now a service and finance nation. Our other industry isn't up to much. Our high end engineering is actually right at the pinnacle (and actually better than Germany's). However, our general manufacturing capability is not great. If our high end engineering (satellites, advanced machinery, etc) didn't skew the figures slightly, we would actually have a much worse manufacturing output than we currently do.

Like it or loathe it (personally, i do both), the Finance sector is what keeps us living nicely (relatively, compared to other eras of our history). Which is the only reason successive governments fight tooth and nail to protect the City.

I am definitely pro EU but at the same time i would be prepared to consider my position should the Out camp put something concrete before me - ie, here is an agreement we have signed guaranteeing free trade should we vote to leave, etc. The problem for the Out camp is that until they offer some guarantees, it is all guesswork. You can't run a company, let alone a nation, on guesswork. If they offer some tangible evidence to ack up their claims, things will go much better for them.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: crazyewok

Lol, the history lesson was accurate though

Hasn't convinced me to stay in the EU though, I only hope the majority of Brits think the same.

Well canada, Australia and New Zealand prove the UK can be out and still be a first world prosperous nation.

I also, think its kind of ironic. The media under the governbents direction, have managed to overcook the refugee issue. Now most in this country are slightly racist. Its part of the culture. They took one issue and used it as a distraction on the population, so they could be part of carving up the middle east. Now, they use the spin in reverse.

The migrants are bound to be infiltrated by ISIS, without our membership to the European union there is a "RISK" we may not be safe........... Who from exactly? last time I looked 7/7 and 9/11 all happened whilst the UK was member of the European Union, so this relationship doesn't protect us at all.

Trade will suffer..... Yes it will, but this this will affect our masters more than us. It will take years to renegotiate trade deals they scream...... Only because the masters will see to that, our abstract misery will be amplified until we are brow beaten into submission and most will not see it.

Nearly every person I talk to about politics IRL regret voting for the Conservatives, the people who voted Lib Dem regret it more. The one thing we can surmise from it, people are stupid and easily tricked.

I'd forgo the chance of voting in a general election because I will not vote for someone to carry out agendas in my name and do so under some watered down versions of democracy. But this...... I'm voting because I want to ensure that there agendas are messed with as much a s possible.

I live on a island. Last time I looked there was about 30 miles of sea between us an Europe. We are not Europe we are their neighbours..... Now excuse me whilst I go see if my neighbour next door to me minds bailing me out financially, while I'm there, Ill see if he is game to have a key to each others homes too so we can share with each other.

So if we stay, does this mean, if we take the current spin, that we can get rid of our military? Won't Europe keep us safe?

If Laws kept us safe and was there so crime didn't happen, there wouldn't be prisons full of people would there?

originally posted by: ForteanOrg


You are quite wrong. The EU did not force herself upon the UK - quite the other way around. The UK wanted to be part of the EU very badly - it was old De Gaulle who vetoed UK membership time and time again. Only when Pompidou became France's president, the UK was allowed in - and they really, really wanted in - badly.

Hearsay...History.... and It depends on who's views you read

See, the UK is not that great economical miracle y'all seem to think it is. In the 1950s the UK was still a powerful economy - mainly because of the spin-off of WWII. People were used to very high taxes, a huge defense budget, the scarcity of luxury and many in Government service. They were willing to work like slaves, all for the glory of the Empire. After the war the fact that Germany was economically on its knees also helped, as that was England's strongest economical opponent. So, for a short while, it looked as if England (or the UK) ruled the world again.

Are you speaking from experience? Were you there?

I was. and I can assure you it was nothing like that.

To my amazement good old Auntie - the BBC - still frequently offers a vivid display of the UK's greatness - in the 1950s... we see the Comet fly again, Rolls Royce being of importance again and we hear how the Brits saved the world. In the 1950s.

LOL!! And did it mention the 'Festival of Britain' or the splendour

and lavish 'Coronation' such luxury and pomp and so soon after a war?

But things were soon changing: the Germans got help (Marshall plan, allies in the Cold War etc.) and did what Germans do: work. So, in just a short while the German economy became an important factor again.

Kudos to them for that. Credit where its due.

Also, Brits were slowly climbing the ladder of civilisation too:

What planet are you on?

trying to ditch the class society, building a more equal society - a[ long tradition of masters and servants was to be abandoned, providing a more equal playing field for all. But also resulting in more expensive labour, people demanding rights they did not have before. In short: the Brits lost their temporary advantage

Which century are you even in.

This became very clear when in the 1960s the EU became quite succesful. The Brits lost their advantage, finally their GDP even dropped 10 percent below that of the (then) 6 EU nations. The Brits wanted to be part of the EU, but French president De Gaulle - perhaps a visionair in this regard - did not want the UK in and vetoed their application. De Gaulle said that the Brits had a "deep-seated hostility" towards European construction. In short: they wanted to get in as long as it suited them but out as soon as they had sucked the system dry beyond repair. Perhaps he was right. De Gaulle said London showed a "lack of interest" in the Common Market and would require a "radical transformation" before joining the EEC. "The present Common Market is incompatible with the economy, as it now stands, of Britain," he said. He went on to list a number of aspects of Britain's economy, from working practices to agriculture, which he said made Britain incompatible with Europe.

That was De Gaulle and probably his memoirs taken from a biased angle...HIS.

Only when De Gaulle left office and Pompidou became France's president, the Brits, whom had been calling and ringing and leaving messages and flowers for decades - were allowed in

I picture that

Were you there? or just hearsay?

.

So, the UK was NOT doing fine at all and only when they joined the EU became roughly average again.

I was there and living the dream YOU?

Don't make the UK into something it is not. You are the heirs of a proud Empire and a very rich culture - I sincerely enjoy it and as an European am willing and able to help you protect it as it has great value. But the Empire is dead. Your only economical hope lies in being simply an average member of the European Union. Nothing special either, in fact, we should not have you dictate your own rules anymore sooner or later. Learn to drive right I'd say

There's really only one answer to that OUT

a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

we was fine before we joined the EU we will be fine leaving them.

its funny how Cameron is confident about positive results staying in the EU, but fears we are entering the "unknown" by leaving them

so Mr. President - as our leader you aint got a clue what will happen if we leave. Bullshizzle in my opinion. He always says " i think we will be worse off, i think, i think,. i think" stop thinking and give facts.

very biased towards staying in the EU - we should leave

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: crazyewok

The thing is though that a lot of the last post was absolutely correct. I disagree about the economic strength, etc, but mostly it was a post based in fact.

Economically, we are now a service and finance nation. Our other industry isn't up to much. Our high end engineering is actually right at the pinnacle (and actually better than Germany's). However, our general manufacturing capability is not great. If our high end engineering (satellites, advanced machinery, etc) didn't skew the figures slightly, we would actually have a much worse manufacturing output than we currently do.

Like it or loathe it (personally, i do both), the Finance sector is what keeps us living nicely (relatively, compared to other eras of our history). Which is the only reason successive governments fight tooth and nail to protect the City.

I am definitely pro EU but at the same time i would be prepared to consider my position should the Out camp put something concrete before me - ie, here is an agreement we have signed guaranteeing free trade should we vote to leave, etc. The problem for the Out camp is that until they offer some guarantees, it is all guesswork. You can't run a company, let alone a nation, on guesswork. If they offer some tangible evidence to ack up their claims, things will go much better for them.

The EU will do that anyway if we leave. It would not be in their interest not too surely!

originally posted by: lSkrewloosel
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

we was fine before we joined the EU we will be fine leaving them.

its funny how Cameron is confident about positive results staying in the EU, but fears we are entering the "unknown" by leaving them

so Mr. President - as our leader you aint got a clue what will happen if we leave. Bullshizzle in my opinion. He always says " i think we will be worse off, i think, i think,. i think" stop thinking and give facts.

very biased towards staying in the EU - we should leave

This is a very good point! Like I said their motives don't benefit 80% of the UK population but the IN negatives do impact them bigtime!!!

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: ForteanOrg


You are quite wrong. The EU did not force herself upon the UK - quite the other way around. The UK wanted to be part of the EU very badly - it was old De Gaulle who vetoed UK membership time and time again. Only when Pompidou became France's president, the UK was allowed in - and they really, really wanted in - badly.

Hearsay...History.... and It depends on who's views you read

See, the UK is not that great economical miracle y'all seem to think it is. In the 1950s the UK was still a powerful economy - mainly because of the spin-off of WWII. People were used to very high taxes, a huge defense budget, the scarcity of luxury and many in Government service. They were willing to work like slaves, all for the glory of the Empire. After the war the fact that Germany was economically on its knees also helped, as that was England's strongest economical opponent. So, for a short while, it looked as if England (or the UK) ruled the world again.

Are you speaking from experience? Were you there?

I was. and I can assure you it was nothing like that.

To my amazement good old Auntie - the BBC - still frequently offers a vivid display of the UK's greatness - in the 1950s... we see the Comet fly again, Rolls Royce being of importance again and we hear how the Brits saved the world. In the 1950s.

LOL!! And did it mention the 'Festival of Britain' or the splendour

and lavish 'Coronation' such luxury and pomp and so soon after a war?

But things were soon changing: the Germans got help (Marshall plan, allies in the Cold War etc.) and did what Germans do: work. So, in just a short while the German economy became an important factor again.

Kudos to them for that. Credit where its due.

Also, Brits were slowly climbing the ladder of civilisation too:

What planet are you on?

trying to ditch the class society, building a more equal society - a[ long tradition of masters and servants was to be abandoned, providing a more equal playing field for all. But also resulting in more expensive labour, people demanding rights they did not have before. In short: the Brits lost their temporary advantage

Which century are you even in.

This became very clear when in the 1960s the EU became quite succesful. The Brits lost their advantage, finally their GDP even dropped 10 percent below that of the (then) 6 EU nations. The Brits wanted to be part of the EU, but French president De Gaulle - perhaps a visionair in this regard - did not want the UK in and vetoed their application. De Gaulle said that the Brits had a "deep-seated hostility" towards European construction. In short: they wanted to get in as long as it suited them but out as soon as they had sucked the system dry beyond repair. Perhaps he was right. De Gaulle said London showed a "lack of interest" in the Common Market and would require a "radical transformation" before joining the EEC. "The present Common Market is incompatible with the economy, as it now stands, of Britain," he said. He went on to list a number of aspects of Britain's economy, from working practices to agriculture, which he said made Britain incompatible with Europe.

That was De Gaulle and probably his memoirs taken from a biased angle...HIS.

Only when De Gaulle left office and Pompidou became France's president, the Brits, whom had been calling and ringing and leaving messages and flowers for decades - were allowed in

I picture that

Were you there? or just hearsay?

.

So, the UK was NOT doing fine at all and only when they joined the EU became roughly average again.

I was there and living the dream YOU?

Don't make the UK into something it is not. You are the heirs of a proud Empire and a very rich culture - I sincerely enjoy it and as an European am willing and able to help you protect it as it has great value. But the Empire is dead. Your only economical hope lies in being simply an average member of the European Union. Nothing special either, in fact, we should not have you dictate your own rules anymore sooner or later. Learn to drive right I'd say

There's really only one answer to that OUT

If any doubt then the British people must vote OUT! Because the amount of doubt in peoples minds is warning enough. And common sense should prompt folk to take a good look at the EU and the issues it has so far been confronted with and still is!

Vote after 7 pages

%
Eligible IN = 16.67
Eligible OUT = 60.42
Eligible UNDEC = 14.58

InEligible IN = 0.00
InEligible OUT = 8.33
InEligible UNDEC = 0.00
Overall IN OUT UNDEC
% 100.00 % 16.67 68.75 14.58

a reply to: ForteanOrg

I think you may misunderstand me. When I say we were doing ok, I mean just that. Before the union, we were a nation in our own right. Not world leaders, not the best at this, or the best at that...Just we were a functioning country with a functioning economy.

This is problem with these huge unions...... They are too big too fail. The politicians will say whatever they have to, to ensure they keep in power . It all goes wrong and some how it will be the people who pay for it. First rule of business, the customer always pays. Governbent is the business and lets be fair on this one, they are providing a rubbish service.

It would be nice to see these corrupt s**tlords provide some actual fact and figures that hasn't been touched by the spin doctors, but that won't happen, people have no time for it, if it can't be digested in a 15 minute sound bite then it its not saucy enough to stick.

I dont understand where the pollsters are getting their numbers because a lot of the independent newspaper polls are showing 70% out which is in line with the findings on here. As everyone else has said everyone I know or speaking to is voting out including lots of Welsh and Scottish friends (interestingly Scottish friends all voted SNP but still want out of EU so I think there is a surprise in store for Nicola Sturgeon)!

The only people who seem to want to remain are the big companies and money people and that is purely from an economic standpoint ie their profits may not be as large because of trade expenses/wages all things that dont really affect or interest the normal British citizen.

I think British people are a lot more intelligent and switched on than the fear mongers would like to think and the fact that the big powers are signing letters and generals (except for the General who didnt but his namr appeared accidently as an admin error!) will make normal people feel more resentful at the dirty tactics being played out by Remain and will make them want to vote out even more.to go against the establishment!a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

a reply to: anxiouswens

Speaking of the SNP, I will laugh my head off if a greater percentage of Scots vote to leave the EU than voted to stay in the UK. In fact, as childish as it sounds, purely for entertainment reasons I really hope that happens.
We'd end up leaving the EU and Sturgeon would have zero mandate to call another Scots independence referendum lol.
I would piss laughing at her misery

originally posted by: anxiouswens
I dont understand where the pollsters are getting their numbers because a lot of the independent newspaper polls are showing 70% out which is in line with the findings on here. As everyone else has said everyone I know or speaking to is voting out including lots of Welsh and Scottish friends (interestingly Scottish friends all voted SNP but still want out of EU so I think there is a surprise in store for Nicola Sturgeon)!

The only people who seem to want to remain are the big companies and money people and that is purely from an economic standpoint ie their profits may not be as large because of trade expenses/wages all things that dont really affect or interest the normal British citizen.

I think British people are a lot more intelligent and switched on than the fear mongers would like to think and the fact that the big powers are signing letters and generals (except for the General who didnt but his namr appeared accidently as an admin error!) will make normal people feel more resentful at the dirty tactics being played out by Remain and will make them want to vote out even more.to go against the establishment!a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

The IN elite mob must be worried getting Lord Dannett to blatantly lie on SKY News this morning about there being a connection and relationship between the EU and NATO and the safety of and threat to the UK from Russia and ISIS if we leave the EU, which is ridiculous and dishonest fear-mongering!!!!

OUT is my vote & this will be what I will be voting come the 23rd.
Eligible to vote.

It's time the UK pulled its pants back up.

We once was a proud nation.

a reply to: Obsidian303

In my opinion, if we want to be proud of our nation, then we need a leadership who are prepared to do as they are damned well told, and represent the people according to their wishes, not the wishes of any private organisation, or special interest body, or lobby group, or any other body of persons, except the electorate.

We need to change the way we think about politics, so that rather than voting for those whose policies we like the most, and hoping that they follow through, we vote instead for a new system, one in which we the people make policy, vote on it ourselves, and then leave it to the elected body to carry out our orders, to make our decrees reality.

The days where we needed elected representatives were over on the day that more than eighty percent of individuals gained access to the Internet in my opinion. Either way, this in out nonsense is just that. Nonsense. It is not going to make a blind bit of difference to us one way or another. Those who own our nation will see to that.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
Either way, this in out nonsense is just that. Nonsense. It is not going to make a blind bit of difference to us one way or another. Those who own our nation will see to that.

You do not know that, it is pure conjecture and personal opinion.
Just pointing it out to others who could foolishly believe you are basing your assertion on some factually correct evidence.
You have nothing more than opinion, same as me, but I make no assertions, that would be a dishonest argument...as I think yours above is.

Don't vote then if you have such a defeatist attitude, but don't whinge after the result if you abstain due to your defeatism.

No 10 just apologised to a general for using his name in support of the IN campaign when in fact he had not given his permission. He wants OUT I think. That's the 2nd cock-up/ lie today after LORD Dannett's this morning on SKY NEWS.

Desperate are the greedy ones. And hopeful are the needy ones!

Whats intresting is this is going beyond left and right.

Lot of lefties seem to want out too.

Only the labour die hards seem to be in support of staying.