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originally posted by: neoholographic
I would cut back on drone strikes before I stop waterboarding.
Well no, of course we wouldn't use torture, because hard data and research have shown that it's ineffective.
originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: amazing
Well no, of course we wouldn't use torture, because hard data and research have shown that it's ineffective.
The only people that say that are pundits, and politico's, and politicians.
If it was so ineffective funny how it has been used since mankind started calling himself 'civilized'.
Guess it's just better to drone them to death, and lose out on any human intelligence whatsoever.
Maybe if we waterboarded MORE instead of drone ISIS could have been nipped in the bud.
originally posted by: Krazysh0t
originally posted by: neoholographic
I find this argument idiotic on all levels.
You said it mate. This argument IS idiotic. Torture is against the Geneva Conventions. Plain and Simple. It's one of the reasons most of the 1st world was visibly upset with American foreign policy during the Bush years.
OR>..mabye you could do some actual research and find out the truth for yourself like I have. Or you could parrot right wing propaganda. I'd rather think for myself.
The current policy traces its roots to the administration of former President Bill Clinton. Following the attacks of September 11, 2001, however, what had been a limited program expanded dramatically,
originally posted by: schuyler
originally posted by: Krazysh0t
originally posted by: neoholographic
I find this argument idiotic on all levels.
You said it mate. This argument IS idiotic. Torture is against the Geneva Conventions. Plain and Simple. It's one of the reasons most of the 1st world was visibly upset with American foreign policy during the Bush years.
The question becomes, how do you define "torture." My uncle, Vladimir Ivanovich Krasowsky, was tortured by the Germans in WW II. They pulled out his fingernails with a pair of pliers.
That's torture.
Someone who is waterboarded has the sensation that they are drowning, but they aren't. There is no physical harm to them at all. Yet people call waterboarding "torture."
Apples and oranges.
originally posted by: buddah6
originally posted by: Krazysh0t
originally posted by: neoholographic
I find this argument idiotic on all levels.
You said it mate. This argument IS idiotic. Torture is against the Geneva Conventions. Plain and Simple. It's one of the reasons most of the 1st world was visibly upset with American foreign policy during the Bush years.
If what you are saying is valid, then the US tortures all pilots attending survival training. I was waterboarded twice while in training and I suffered no ill effects.
The Geneva Convention classified torture as leaving permanent physical or mental injury. It also covers hard physical labor by captives as being torture. So let me make this "idiotic" point in your words. My grandparents made me clean the barn when I was a teenager. It is heavy, long and dirty work which would take most of the day. I had no choice but to comply. The Geneva Convention states that work may not be demeaning or be humiliating. Cleaning the scat from a 10 stall barn is humiliating, demeaning and very hard work. IS this torture?
It is my contention, that most people who comment about torture have no idea what they are talking about! They have a scale of what is and what isn't torture that doesn't align with the law. The US has guidelines on how to do interogation which is not available to the general public and I don't think that you have read it.
originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: seagull
Some people call it wrong. That's their prerogative.
However I don't lose any sleep over it. Especially when it comes to 'true believers of ALLAH'.
That goes around cutting peoples heads, off that is when they are not bombing the hell out of someone else. That go around marrying little girls. Then raping them.
I know people like to think we are 'better', but when it comes to REAL American history. That is chalked full of devilish little details.
How else is one to fight religious 'batsnip' crazy zealots.
The only thing that upsets me. Is how people think 'torture' is worse than what those Islamofascists do on a daily basis.
originally posted by: neo96
It only matter when a 'republican' suggests it.
Leon Panetta Admits Information from Waterboarding Led US to Bin Laden (Video)
“The real story was that in order to put the puzzle of intelligence together that led us to Bin Laden, there were a lot of pieces out there that were a part of that puzzle. Yes, some of it came from some of the tactics that were used at that time, interrogation tactics that were used. But the fact is we put together most of that intelligence without having to resort to that.”
originally posted by: amazing
a reply to: neo96
how about this ...Senate finds CIA torture was largely ineffective
www.nbcnews.com...
and this...study shows torture is ineffective
www.livescience.com...
and this former FBI interrogator on the ineffectiveness of torture
www.outsidethebeltway.com...
There internet is full of article, research paper and testimony by people actually in the interrogation business on why torture is ineffective, but by all means, listen to Rush and Savage.
The current policy traces its roots to the administration of former President Bill Clinton.