Donald Trump is right about waterboarding!

Of course we should do waterboarding and more.

I find this argument idiotic on all levels. People like McCain, Cruz and Obama talk about waterboarding but they're okay with killing thousands of people who are innocent. Waterboarding hasn't killed one terrorist but bombs have killed plenty of innocent people.

McCain was singing, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran. Does he think those bombs will only kill radicals in Iran? Cruz talks about carpet bombing and blowing everything up but he doesn't know about waterboarding? Obama has sent in drone strikes that have killed innocent 6, 7 and 12 year old kids and you complain about waterboarding?

I would cut back on drone strikes before I stop waterboarding. I would make drone strikes are more targeted and they're equipped with the last tracking technology.

People talk about waterboarding terrorist as something awful while kids get killed by drone strikes. It makes no sense to me.

originally posted by: neoholographic


I find this argument idiotic on all levels.

You said it mate. This argument IS idiotic. Torture is against the Geneva Conventions. Plain and Simple. It's one of the reasons most of the 1st world was visibly upset with American foreign policy during the Bush years.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: neoholographic


I find this argument idiotic on all levels.

You said it mate. This argument IS idiotic. Torture is against the Geneva Conventions. Plain and Simple. It's one of the reasons most of the 1st world was visibly upset with American foreign policy during the Bush years.

The question becomes, how do you define "torture." My uncle, Vladimir Ivanovich Krasowsky, was tortured by the Germans in WW II. They pulled out his fingernails with a pair of pliers.

That's torture.

Someone who is waterboarded has the sensation that they are drowning, but they aren't. There is no physical harm to them at all. Yet people call waterboarding "torture."

Apples and oranges.

a reply to: neoholographic

Waterboarding hasn't killed one terrorist but bombs have killed plenty of innocent people.

Not that we know of but it is used to bring the victim to the point of death , how many have passed that point we can't know.

Waterboarding is morally wrong especially for a nation that wraps itself in a smug " we don't torture" mantra , bombing is wrong unless you're under attack but the people with the planes and bombs think they have a moral justification for it in other peoples back yards.

a reply to: schuyler

I'd say causing physical discomfort that simulates dying constitutes pretty clearly as torture.

Let's put it this way, if your form of interrogation involves anything but just asking the person questions, you may want to ask yourself if you are torturing them.

Heck, you do know that even police interrogations can result in false confessions right? And that's WITHOUT physically hurting someone.

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: neoholographic


I find this argument idiotic on all levels.

You said it mate. This argument IS idiotic. Torture is against the Geneva Conventions. Plain and Simple. It's one of the reasons most of the 1st world was visibly upset with American foreign policy during the Bush years.

The question becomes, how do you define "torture." My uncle, Vladimir Ivanovich Krasowsky, was tortured by the Germans in WW II. They pulled out his fingernails with a pair of pliers.

That's torture.

Someone who is waterboarded has the sensation that they are drowning, but they aren't. There is no physical harm to them at all. Yet people call waterboarding "torture."

Apples and oranges.

Exactly, people complain about waterboarding while drone strikes kill hundreds of kids!!

It makes no sense. Not 1 terrorist has died because of waterboarding and it only has been done in a handful of cases.



I will do something about these drone strikes before I cry over waterboarding!

a reply to: neoholographic

Your argument can be summed up as such. "We do one type of evil, so clearly it excuses this other form of evil"

a reply to: neoholographic

Listen, Krazysh0t and I rarely agree, but I have starred each of his entries in this thread because he's right.

Drone strikes are also wrong and I agree with your thoughts there.

The real problem is when corporate interests spur either of the aforementioned enterprises , as they are morally wrong in a developed society based upon communication and higher ideals.

The real problem is corruption across the board. Do you have a child? Can you imagine your wonderful children being subjected to either of the above?

a reply to: neoholographic

Buddy it's all evil and driven by a corporate agenda. Thanks for cracking my psyche a little more with those horrible photos.

a reply to: neoholographic

"Openly" torturing, even when justified and resulting in good intel, is stupid. Covertly torturing when you know the individual being tortured has necessary information, and will never be released or have contact with his or her cohorts or any possible media leak again, is another story all together. Why would we "openly" bring back waterboarding? And does anyone think the US (or really any other nation or group who wants to force-extract intel from individuals) is not engaged in torture, if it works? If it's so valuable, and also so volatile, how about we just keep on pretending the practices have stopped, instead of doing our best to sprint as fast as we can away from perceived moral high ground?

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: neoholographic

Buddy it's all evil and driven by a corporate agenda. Thanks for cracking my psyche a little more with those horrible photos.

I disagree.

There's no Moral Equivalence between waterboarding a handful of terrorist and the murder of innocent children. These photos are hard to look at and believe it or not there's photos that are worse but it's the truth.

This is something most Americans don't see as they pontifacte about waterboarding a few terrorists.

The waterboarding argument is again a fringe issue. In war things happen. To get information things happen. Worse happens but it is not a talking point for Donald Trump so it is not an issue. The only reason this in the forefront is that Fiorina was asked the question sometime last year and now it is back. No one really made a big deal then and a few days from now none of you will have it in the forefront either.

originally posted by: schuyler
That's torture.

Someone who is waterboarded has the sensation that they are drowning, but they aren't. There is no physical harm to them at all. Yet people call waterboarding "torture."

Apples and oranges.

Incorrect...apples to apples.

Torture is a mental game. Regardless of the tools/methods employed.

Until we can get a proper freaking definition for terrorist, I'm against all forms of punishment/torture/imprisonment.

Know why?

Because any idiot with a mouth can say that any other person is a terrorist- and the government(s) can pick any one of you (state-side or not) off the street, say you're a terrorist, and essentially do whatever they want with/to you, for any reason.

When simply speaking out against this sort of nonsense is grounds for punishment, our fall to tyranny is complete.

Waterboarding or any form of torture is on the least effective ways of getting intel from a prisoner. In fact you would never trust intel from it. So the question is do you support this sort of thing just for fun? And if we do it then why not anybody who gets out guys? So if Iran had waterboarded the US sailors a few weeks ago and said well the US does it and it does not permanent harm then you would also have to be OK with that.

a reply to: neoholographic

But it doesn't have to be one or the other...it doesn't have to be drones vs waterboarding. It should be no torture and no drones. Period. There's your solution.

Keep in mind that there have been decades and maybe centuries of hard data about torture. Many good recent studies that show....torture doesn't produce good results. Torture only produces, radicalized enemies.

So if there is only a negative outcome, why do the action? That makes no sense on a logical level.

And when thinking about radicalization of enemies thru torture, it must be thought of this way. If you torture me and then release me, I'm going to be very angry and get my revenge on you. If you torture my wife and my children, then you are definitely going to feel my wrath. If that is true for us Americans, why do you not think it's true for our enemies?

I'm an American, we do what's right. It's only our crooked politicians that don't and those citizens who have been brainwashed by them.

a reply to: schuyler

Someone who is waterboarded has the sensation that they are drowning, but they aren't. There is no physical harm to them at all. Yet people call waterboarding "torture."

Have it done to you and let's see if you change your mind.

Even the Nazis learned you get no real information by using torture to keep doing so is just idiotic.

Article 3 of the Geneva Convention

(1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed ' hors de combat ' by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.
To this end, the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

(a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

Red Cross Link

But hey, f@#$ the Geneva Convention. It only applies to the people we don't like. Very very dangerous precedence that people want to set. The Geneva Convention is also meant to protect U.S. troops as well. And although you cannot control what other nations do with POW's you set a precedent of no protections for your own combatants as well. Why should any other nation abide by these protections if the U.S. doesn't?

a reply to: neoholographic


Ummm...waterboard the lot of them...waterboard them once...waterboard them twice...waterboard them five times a day...just before prayer...

WOW...Think about how many we might bring to really know Allah...bout it...

Lets get over how bad it makes the poor terrorist...feel...KWIM...?





YouSir