Taiwan getting even closer to buying US Harriers

a reply to: Zaphod58

They don't have like huge barges or something? I mean the straight is 110 miles wide, they can't just put troops on huge Maserk container/cargo boats? There's no shortage of them leaving/entering China's waters.

And come on, it's not like that's the worst idea ever. Unconventional, maybe...

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Ships require docks to offload. You can't just throw s bunch of soldiers on a Carnival Cruise Lines ship and sail up and disembark. That's why they have hovercraft and landing craft.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: MystikMushroom

Ships require docks to offload. You can't just throw s bunch of soldiers on a Carnival Cruise Lines ship and sail up and disembark. That's why they have hovercraft and landing craft.

The Brits managed to do it in the Falklands war they requisitioned the Queen Elizabeth 2 [ QE2 ]
papers.ssrn.com...

a reply to: stonerwilliam

That's one ship, for a force that wasn't trying to take and hold an entire country, no matter what size.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: stonerwilliam

That's one ship, for a force that wasn't trying to take and hold an entire country, no matter what size.

They are hardy little sods though zaph , stuff them 30 of them in a shipping container with a bag of rice and a metal pot to piss in , then load 10.000 of them on a ship and set sail

Easy Trogan horse tactic

a reply to: stonerwilliam

And where do you plan to hide them before they load? Moving large masses of troops isn't exactly something you can do without people noticing. You'd have to take the port in the first attempt and have enough force to hold out against anything until reinforcements arrive. And I'm pretty sure Taiwan would be a little suspicious of a few dozen ships heading their way suddenly. Nice idea for a Dale Brown book, doesn't work so well in reality.

Notice that the QE2 only moved troops, she didn't land them. They were put on other ships before being landed.

a reply to: anzha

I agree, and we usually do.

I in particular have a vested interest in what happens there so I couldn't let this one slide.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

China knows that an armed invasion would get them involved with a direct conflict with the US. That is why they are actively trying to implement what's called a soft takeover. They have been investing in, and trying to rig Taiwan's election process. The last administration that had power was partly their doing and changes quit a few laws to make relations between the two China's easier for mainland Chinese to do business and take money out of the country.
The people finally figured that out and elected the current pro-independence government. Much to China's dismay. Heh.

a reply to: Sammamishman

So if China's not really going to attack knowing it will only get the USA involved, then they are just paper tigers and Taiwan should stop riding the fence and just come over fully to the US side.

China's bark is bigger than their bite. They had their last Hurrah in Korea. But they know they are outmatched in every category when it comes to the USA.

As for how the chinese would unload all those troops onto Taiwan. I recommend the Chinese shoot their soldiers out of a cannon like in the circus onto the shore. Maybe, use some trebuchet loaded up with like a dozen of them at a time and go that route. They could all be wearing parachutes. It would look awesome. And be about as threatening as when they went "GO!GO!GO!...You Leave Now.....GOGOGOGOGOGOGO!!!!!" in response to our overflights of their sandbar they are calling an island.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Everyone is riding the fence here. China want Taiwan but knows they can't (at present) go toe to toe with the US, so keeps at bay. Taiwan knows China wants it in a bad way but doesn't trust China not to use force and can't rely solely on US bailing them out if shooting starts. The US doesn't want to see China spreading it's influence around and bullying neighboring counties but doesn't trust China not use force either and really doesn't want to get pulled into a shooting war with China. It's the balance of power between the US and China that is worrying. If China get strong enough in comparison to the US, it might look long and hard at an actual invasion or limited military action against Taiwan.

The Chinese don't need to shoot their soldiers over via cannon. They can all fly. Haven't you seen Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: MystikMushroom

Ships require docks to offload. You can't just throw s bunch of soldiers on a Carnival Cruise Lines ship and sail up and disembark. That's why they have hovercraft and landing craft.

Okay, okay *laughing*

Swimming lessons?

I get it it. Like I said, it's not the best idea ever. At least there's a casino on the Carnival ships to entertain them the short 110 mile jaunt.

What a spectacle that would be though...

"Sir, they're using commandeered cruise and cargo ships to move over 100,000 men. It looks like they all have water wings and those foam noodles, and are jumping over board..."

Don't we kind of need Taiwan for all the integrated circuit and computer parts?

I rarely see "Made in Taiwan" anymore. I used to see it a lot more in the 80s. I guess the stuff they export is now INSIDE the stuff we buy?

a reply to: Caughtlurking

What you seem to forget is that the US has always been the good guy, even when mistakes were made with policy and reasoning, we never fought an innocent tyrant.

Theres some evidence to support the argument that Hitler arose out of the ashes of the 1929 crash that started on Wall Street, justifying the military invasion by the US into the Continent of Europe that we still occupy to this day (with nukes even) and that the new alliance called NATO is ever expanding further into the Eastern part of Europe.

Now who's the Empire builders?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: intrptr

Do you actually fact check, or just make it up as you go along? There were no B-52 missions from Taiwan during Vietnam. They flew from Thailand and Guam. They flew some tankers from Taiwan but that was it.

Excuse me, so you say.

Whats the 12000 foot runaway in Taiwan for?

I'll apologize in advance if this post drifts too far off topic. If a moderator thinks that is the case, please let me know and I will remove it.

I'm an American who has been living in Taiwan for the last three years. While the discussion about how/when/why/if China might invade Taiwan is interesting in an academic sort of way, I wanted to add my $0.02, which is that China is not going to invade Taiwan. China has nothing to gain by invading Taiwan, but it has plenty to lose.

China and Taiwan already enjoy many of the economic and practical benefits of reunification. Mainland China accounts for 40% of Taiwan's exports. That's a value of $130 billion US. Many large companies with factories based in China, such as Foxconn, are headquartered in Taiwan and owned by Taiwanese people.

In addition, it is fairly easy to travel between Taiwan and the mainland, particularly for Taiwanese people. Many young Taiwanese go to the mainland for work (I saw a Chinese-language newspaper article recently claiming that nearly 1 million Taiwanese are working or studying in China, but I can't find an English equivalent.) It is more difficult for Chinese to visit Taiwan - the governments on both sides impose restrictions - but such tourism is growing.

Finally, while there are economic and practical ties between Taiwan and the mainland, the specter of Taiwanese independence and Chinese aggression gives both sides a convenient political boogeyman. In the recent election in Taiwan, politicians on all sides spoke of the importance of a Taiwanese identity and democratic institutions separate from mainland China (though none supported formal independence). On the Chinese side, the elections saw the mainland flexing its military muscle. The prospect of Chinese military invasion seems to crop up in Taiwan any time the government wants to distract the public from something else; the same is true in China, except the specter the CCP advances is the Taiwanese independence. That kind of political distraction for the general population is something you can't put a price on.

Taiwan has a very capable military; should Taiwan buy US Harriers, the air force here will put them to good use, and I have no doubt that the domestic aviation industry will be able to develop a domestic VTVL fighter in the ~13 years indicated in the OP. But China is not going to invade Taiwan.

a reply to: PhloydPhan

excellent post. glad to hear an opinion from someone living in taiwan. your post was on topic, and worth the read.

a reply to: intrptr

I can't say for sure if b52s were launched from taiwan. but I do know the particularly in regards to the b52. zaph knows a LOT.

hey zaph have you ever been around a b52....I can't seem to remember. . . . . . . . .

a reply to: intrptr

Taiwan and Okinawa were both ruled out because of politics. Taiwan was too close to China and Japan was hesitant to allow the use of Okinawa. All the B-52 missions were flown from either Utapao in Thailand or Anderson on Guam.

There were occasional visits to Taiwan by B-52s that were there top train with them, and KC-135s supporting the B-52s and F-111s going to Vietnam were there. The A model required a long runway due to the water injection system. No B-52s have been based in Taiwan at any time, except the occasional TDY.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

My father served at both Guam and Thailand during Vietnam working on them, and I dealt with them a couple dozen times or more.

a reply to: Zaphod58

delt with them? family lineage? does that mean you've actually been in one and know all of her secrets?