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Does the US Have the Right......

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posted on Jan, 8 2005 @ 12:38 AM
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To interfere in the politics or conflicts of two nations where the situation can be dealt between the two nations or the situation does not affect the USA.

Case of hand is the Isreali Palestine conflict. Now this is not a typical arguement on this, but I am basing this off of the belief of someone I know. Basicly his thought on this is that "The USA should remove the IDF and Isreal from Gaza and several other territories." Now that may seem as an end to the conflict but what gives the USA the right to do that?

As we can see peace is most likeley far off in the Mid.East but I do feel that eventually peace can come between Isreal and Palestine, but the USA supporting either side or getting directly involved in this, I feel, may make problems only worse. Its kinda like an over-protective mother (USA) trying to help her kids (other nations), sometimes the mother needs to interfere and protect/guide her children but there are many situations where the child needs to learn to fend for himself and not neeed mommy's support.

I'm not really sure where I am going with this, but my basic point behind this post is my little analogy.




posted on Jan, 8 2005 @ 01:29 AM
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There is no easy answer. I do think the USA shouldnt interfere in places and politics they dont understand. There is no better example of this then the current situation in Iraq no one the USA appointed including Paul Bremer had no clue about Iraqi politics.
The reason Japan was successfully occupied post WW 2 is because General Douglas Macarthur understood the Japanese people and culture.

As a way to cover up there lack of understanding power was handed over to an interim government far to soon while the incompetence of the Bush administration and maybe some US military leaders isnt solely to blame for the current state of Iraq much could have been done to prevent the current state of affairs.
Iraq needs a Douglas Macarthur.

The morale of the story is that countries should only intervene if they have the means and understanding to make a differnce.



posted on Jan, 8 2005 @ 10:40 AM
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The US can't win no matter what it does----if they intervene they are condemned by the left----if they stay away they are condemned by the left.

Unfortunately America can't stand by and let the would go to hell----Hitler had to be stopped, the USSR had to be stopped, the terrorist have to be stopped----who else is going to do it?

During the cold war when the USSR was gobbling up countries like a vacuum cleaner-----only America was willing to confront them-----Europe came alone only "kicking and screaming" and they were in the path of the Evil Empire’s vacuum cleaner.

If not America----who----the UN----a paper tiger with no guts or power (thank god)



posted on Jan, 8 2005 @ 10:56 AM
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YES the US does have a right to interfer in other countries, especially when it comes to national security. If we don't interfer in Israel ther wouldn't be one today, if we pull out of Iraq within six months another terrible dictator would rule Iraq. The point is since we are a superpower we must stand up to anyone because other countries don't have the same ability as we do.



posted on Jan, 8 2005 @ 11:29 AM
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Unfortunately America can't stand by and let the would go to hell----Hitler had to be stopped, the USSR had to be stopped, the terrorist have to be stopped----who else is going to do it?



America stopped Hitler ????
I beleive it was the russians.



posted on Jan, 8 2005 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by instar

America stopped Hitler ????
I beleive it was the russians.




At that time the USSR couldn’t fight their way out of a wet paper bag.

The USSR only wanted to save their own butts-----after the US stopped Hitler and much of the fighting and danger was over only then did the USSR move----and moved in and moved in----taking over Eastern countries as fast as they could gobble them up. The US stopped them at East Berlin.

The cold war was about keeping them from gobbling up more countries but Poland and others fell to the Russian bear-----while Europe like a bunch of frightened sheep did nothing (like always).

BTW did you get your education from one of those leftwing diploma factories?



posted on Jan, 8 2005 @ 12:54 PM
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Now I believe that the USA should not interfere with the Isreal/Palestine conflict since it is not a threat to us, its a issue that interefering on either side will only hurt us. I stand by my analogy for foreign affairs.

Now Sleeper, the Russians did play a key part in stopping Hitler. The Russians played a veyr important role in stopping Hitler's war on the Eastern front. The Germans lost over 200,000 men either in the form of bodybags or POWs at Stalingrad. When the Germans took the beating at Stalingrad it showed the rest of the world that the then seemingly unstoppable Nazi war machine was able to be beaten. If it was not for the Russians, Hitler would've been able to win WW2. That was the turning point in the Eastern front, and the Reds managed to push the Germans back and take back land in the East.



posted on Jan, 8 2005 @ 06:44 PM
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Dont bother man, as hard as you try to convince these nationalists of the truth about WW2, they will only ever acknowledge that Private Ryan took on the whole German army alone while carrying 5 different rifles and a couple of bazookas.

Quick Save > Check Point > Reload > Cut Scene.



posted on Jan, 8 2005 @ 10:09 PM
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Jedi, the USSR defended their own country----and it was not them that stopped Hitler---the weather stopped Hitler----the Germans nearly froze to death-----most died from the cold.

Had the USSR not made a pack with Hitler at the start of war (Hitler promised not to attack them) they may have made a difference----however they were cowards.

The USSR came in bloodied and nearly beaten----and only made advances after Hitler’s army was on its last leg.

The USSR took advantage of an Eastern Europe in ruin and moved against many countries before those countries could get back on their feet.

The USSR raped countries while they were broken.

The USSR was ten times worse than Hitler.

America beat Hitler, without America Hitler would have won the war in 1943 without ever breaking a sweat.



posted on Jan, 9 2005 @ 01:42 AM
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Originally posted by sleeper
The US can't win no matter what it does----if they intervene they are condemned by the left----if they stay away they are condemned by the left.
You dont suppose that If there was a plan for post war Iraq Bush might have avoid the current situation in Iraq?
You dont suppose that the interim government in Iraq was handed power to soon in an effort to bring europen allies into Iraq?
The interim government should have been headed by someone who understands the middle east ( mayabe not an american.) while more time and thought was given to forming a cabinet.

Unfortunately America can't stand by and let the would go to hell----Hitler had to be stopped, the USSR had to be stopped, the terrorist have to be stopped----who else is going to do it?
This is an automated response from someone who is unable or unwilling to face reality. The same amount of thought as gone into the above statment as the amount of knowledge this person has on WW 2.
America didnt enter the war until to Dec 7 1941.
Where was the USA when Poland and the low countries was overrun by the Germans?
Where was the american war machine when France was over run by the Germanys?
Where was the USA during the Battle of Britain ? (apart from the eagle squadron .)



The cold war was about keeping them from gobbling up more countries but Poland and others fell to the Russian bear-----while Europe like a bunch of frightened sheep did nothing (like always).
I think you will find it was Ike who let the Russians take Berlin thats right an American let the Russians have Berlin.



posted on Jan, 9 2005 @ 03:38 AM
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Campo 57



Campo 57
“A sadist and a beast”

Australians who were not officers were held in Campo 57, at Gruppignano near Udine in north-east Italy. The camp was commanded by Colonel Vittorio Calcaterra, described by one prisoner as “a sadist and a beast and an accessory to murder”.

Thanks to Calcaterra, conditions in Campo 57 were extremely harsh. Food was poor, and housing was crowded and insanitary. The prisoners had to improvise their own medical treatment, coping with the “57 twins”, pneumonia and kidney disease.

Calcaterra’s regime reduced the camp to “a mass of neurosis as no one knew when his turn would come” to be victimised. An Australian doctor recorded that ten Australians died in Campo 57. The number saved by Red Cross aid, he wrote, “is beyond computation”. Calcaterra died before he could be tried as a war criminal.

Bert Woolland’s drawing depicts significant aspects of life in Campo 57: the long journey from Australia, via India and Libya, that resulted in capture at Derna, and a captivity dominated by barbed wire, Red Cross parcels, and the seemingly endless wait for the day they would be free.


Private James McCracken



Private James McCracken
“I will not see you again”

When Italy surrendered in September 1943, many prisoners escaped. Some reached Allied lines; others joined anti-Fascist partisans waging a guerilla war in Italy’s mountains. As many as 39 Australians who had been prisoners of war – no one really knows – died fighting with Italian partisans.

One of these men was Private James McCracken, who in February 1944 joined guerillas fighting the Germans around Milan. In April he was caught in civilian clothes at Varallo, north-east of Milan. Before he was stood against a wall and shot in the back, he was allowed to write to his family in Bendigo: “Just a line to tell you that I will not see you again as I am going to be shot”.

McCracken was buried in the British Empire Cemetery in Milan.


I guess Private McCracken would have to be labelled as a "Terrorist", no?

If you think America won WW2 alone, you insult every single Allied soldier who fought and died to secure Europe and the Pacific. And, yes, Italy.

[edit on 9-1-2005 by cargo]



posted on Jan, 9 2005 @ 07:36 AM
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Originally posted by sleeper
America beat Hitler, without America Hitler would have won the war in 1943 without ever breaking a sweat.



Somebodys on a ego trip

I think your forgetting all the other countries, Great Britain, Canada, etc the defeat of Hitler was a united effort not that of one country.



posted on Jan, 9 2005 @ 12:23 PM
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UK Wizard - Sleeper doesn't believe that any country other than the United States has the ability to do anything constructive in this world. Obviously the sacrifices your own country made in WWII, its huge participation in D-Day 1944 and the way your General Montgomery bloodied FeldMarshal Rommel in North Africa now count for close to nothing in the eyes of some American flag-wavers...

Not to mention how soldiers from my own country were a big part of the advance (cannon fodder) troops on the beaches of Normandy...

Not to mention how Britain and France, although still recovering from the war, reinstated rationing in 1948-49 so they could participate in the airlift to West Berlin.

What I hate is the historical revisionism done by those who push the Doctrine of Absolute American Supremacy. If you believe them, the USA single-handedly won WWII while other countries lazed around, France is a nation of cowards who never won any wars in their history, and the United Nations has never done any good for anyone.

And of course, if you don't believe them... then you're a leftie and you hate America.



posted on Jan, 9 2005 @ 10:38 PM
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Ahhh, we've left out capital.... How quickly beliefs subside when financial advancement is present. The color of money is.....Green, right?



posted on Jan, 9 2005 @ 10:44 PM
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There is a lot of revision of history going on----by the left-----they are embarrassed at what they have done to this world (USSR, Red China, Vietnam, Africa, etc) and are doing their best to change the history books in their favor.

Yeah, everybody helped stop Hitler, like everybody helped stop the USSR---like everybody is helping stop the terrorist that are out there now.

I know the whole world was at war one and two----but America carried the load----without America the war would have been short-----and all you people would be speaking Deutsche



posted on Jan, 10 2005 @ 12:44 AM
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Originally posted by sleeper
There is a lot of revision of history going on----by the left-----they are embarrassed at what they have done to this world (USSR, Red China, Vietnam, Africa, etc) and are doing their best to change the history books in their favor.
Really is south vietnam a stable and democratic society?
Shows how little you know about the Vietnam war you forgot that Australia send a sizeable force to Vietnam. You forgot that the Americans learnt nothing about jungle fighting in WW2 and made the same mistakes in Vietnam. My dad was a digger in Vietnam he lost an eye and is deaf in one ear can see your real grateful for his and other non American service personal have put there lifes on the line for a better world. Why cant you yanks admit that your great at winning conventional wars with fire power but useless at winning hearts and minds of local populations?

Yeah, everybody helped stop Hitler, like everybody helped stop the USSR---like everybody is helping stop the terrorist that are out there now.
Yeah just like America saved France in 1940.

I know the whole world was at war one and two----but America carried the load----without America the war would have been short-----and all you people would be speaking Deutsche
Is that so where were the Americans at Gallipoli in 1915? note the A in Anzac Stands for Australian not american.



posted on Jan, 10 2005 @ 03:28 AM
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Hello facsist. Having fun offending your allies? That's good. Now that you've proven yourself a troll, you might like to consider that even right-minded citizens of America's allies will be most pissed off by the things you choose to say here. But I don't think you care. Because you do not value intercontinental friendships as American born citizens might. That is probably because you've brought to America that strong bitterness you feel towards your ex-neighbours in Europe. You can take the European out of Europe, but you can't take Europe out of the European, eh? You might be an American in citizenship but you are no American in spirit, no matter how much historical fallacy and fascio propaganda you spout. I think you are just a confused immigrant.

This will be my last communication in either one of your tired and repetetive threads or in reply to your tired and repetetive posts. Perhaps others will begin to agree and forward such threads the same quiet.

Arrivederci, Benito.





[edit on 10-1-2005 by cargo]



posted on Jan, 10 2005 @ 11:13 AM
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Cargo,

Just because I don't like Communist, like yourself, who only want us Capitalist to lay down our weapons against poverty and tyranny and let you lefties continue in your madness to impoverish the world----in order to save it.

Oh what was my point----oh yeah----Capitalism is bad, creates too much global prosperity so it must be stopped at all cost.

Why would anyone want to end prosperity for the people?

Communist have a track record of creating poverty----the facts are in the history books----on cable tv----in the newspapers-----even the leftwing ones.

I will not lay down my weapons to improve the lot of man-----oh you lefties are more concerned with saving the whale-----if you do to the whale what you have done in Third World countries-----the poor whales are in big trouble.



posted on Jan, 10 2005 @ 11:16 AM
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Originally posted by sleeper
Communist have a track record of creating poverty----the facts are in the history books----on cable tv----in the newspapers-----even the leftwing ones.


Just a note, there has never been a truely communist country, but i agree communism is bad...social and economically.

and no i'm not calling anyone here a communist



posted on Jan, 10 2005 @ 04:08 PM
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Sleeper right now I'm through with this!
I dont care if the mods punish me! This needs to be said!

Get your right winged head exstracted from your rectum!

If you knew anything about the left you would know the left helped protect the very citizens you say they are trying to enslave.

The liberal democrats infact made the NHS,NI ,education act,social security acts!
The list is endless!
The right is perfect for war because they are paraniod its the nature of them to be paranoid , the left is more peace like and dont want war!
Whats wrong with no war!
I support comunism since it is the perfect social system.



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