Synchronicity; Apophenia and the 11:11 fallacy

a reply to: roadgravel

I used to use my PC to definitively tell the time. Now I use the TV as it seems to be more accurate. Even though I mainly just use my phone as it's always next to me lol

a reply to: spygeek

I think you made a very good presentation of your topic and the analysis flows fluently. It does not mean , however, that I agree with it all.

The subconscious does play tricks on us and I have to say that in some cases it is the cause of the coincidences.

But there are coincidences that cannot be explained by your theory.

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
ok well how do you know that you are right? what if the universe is alive and thinking. what if sometimes coincidences arent simply coincidences? saying you know for sure that its BS is pretentious.

"What if" is not grounds for making any kind of assertion. I could say "what if I am right" with equal validity and lack of explanatory power.

The point of this experiment is not to disprove a "living thinking universe" or whatever, it is to show that synchronicity is nothing more than a subjective psychological process, which holds no reality based basis of truth.

originally posted by: crowdedskies
a reply to: spygeek

I think you made a very good presentation of your topic and the analysis flows fluently. It does not mean , however, that I agree with it all.

The subconscious does play tricks on us and I have to say that in some cases it is the cause of the coincidences.

But there are coincidences that cannot be explained by your theory.

My op, (which is not actually a theory by the way, it is accepted psychological truth), does not attempt to explain any coincidences, I'm not sure where you are getting this idea..

I am explaining the ad hoc subjective significance given to coincidences and showing how they are subjectively manufactured by the individual, through multiple logical fallacies and subconscious training.

11:11 used to be relevant in the uk

11 opening time
11 closing time

24 hour licencing now so I notice much less

Messing with ya, excellent post tho
I'll stay tuned, whould be interesting if it doesn't drive you mad

a reply to: spygeek

... subjectively manufactured by the individual, through multiple logical fallacies and subconscious training.

How would you explain a string of coincidences experienced by a group?

a reply to: spygeek

On a serious note and again, sorry for all the off topic stuff.

How can synchronicity really be a thing nowadays?

In my living room alone I have my mobile, laptop, PC, TV, wife's mobile, wall clock that all tell the same time (with a max 60 seconds difference).

In the kitchen I have a wall clock (needs a new battery), clock on the oven, clock on the microwave and my mobile is sometimes on me when I go in there.

Bedroom we have 2 mobiles and a radio alarm clock.

With all these time devices in just these 3 rooms how is it possible just to see 2 times in a single day?

I fix computers, phones, tablets, laptops etc. When I used to work in an office I used to see times on those devices too.

You can't go through any normal day with just seeing 2 times. How would you know when programmes are on TV? When it's breakfast, lunch, dinner, supper time? When it's time to start and finish work?

I find the whole synchronicity thing very hard to get my mind round as, to me, it's impossible to just see 2 times a day and only those numbers in day to day life.

originally posted by: EA006
a reply to: spygeek

... subjectively manufactured by the individual, through multiple logical fallacies and subconscious training.

How would you explain a string of coincidences experienced by a group?

What makes such an occurrence so special that it requires a special explanation? It is a probabilistic certainty that a string of coincidences will be experienced by more than one person at some points in time, it would be more unusual if this never happened..

There is no reason to attach metaphysical explanations to such things, the laws of probability show they will happen, and there is nothing more to explain, (other than the logic people use to imagine and convince each other of far fetched supernatural explanations for their assumed significance, which I am exploring in this thread).

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: roadgravel

I used to use my PC to definitively tell the time. Now I use the TV as it seems to be more accurate. Even though I mainly just use my phone as it's always next to me lol

Make sure the computer is doing a time sync on the internet. That should keep it on the money.

a reply to: spygeek

I only would like to add that you be cautious when adventuring into this subject in depth.

originally posted by: roadgravel

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: roadgravel

I used to use my PC to definitively tell the time. Now I use the TV as it seems to be more accurate. Even though I mainly just use my phone as it's always next to me lol

Make sure the computer is doing a time sync on the internet. That should keep it on the money.

Time servers are a bit bad over here. Half the time you can't even connect to them and when you can it lags out and gives you a slightly off time.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: spygeek
I find the whole synchronicity thing very hard to get my mind round as, to me, it's impossible to just see 2 times a day and only those numbers in day to day life.

The fact is these people see clocks and numbers multiple times a day, but only consciously make a note of the times they see one specific numerical combination. They either consciously or unconsciously ignore all other combinations as being insignificant, even though they see these other combinations far more regularly than their chosen "special" combination.

This is called confirmation bias and this is the logical fallacy the whole 11:11 movement is based upon.

a reply to: spygeek

I am going to pick just one example of a coincidence in my life to illustrate that there is some "coincidences" that are subjectively engineered but do not fall into the category of the Apophenia you mentioned.

I was watching The Ten Commandments (1956) with Charlton Heston on an old video recorded decades ago. That video recorder has the usual mechanical counter on the from panel which started rolling when the tape started playing. From where I was sitting, I could not read the counter.

Suddenly in the middle of the movie there was a heavy thunder and lightning outside my home and the video suddenly stopped playing. I stood and walked to the video player and knew what to expect. The number 666 was showing on the counter. That is where the tape had stopped.

I have no doubt that I engineered this number somehow. I think that I "wanted" it to be so as it would be fitting given the religious movie about Moses and the sudden thunder and lightning outside my home. The number of the beast seemed appropriate and was willed to the machine even before I got to it.

Synchronicity in my life does have metaphysical significance. More so because they are like a map to me.

I though I would add this dimension to the discussion.

BTW , I use to be a fan of Jung, not because of psychology but because of astrology which is one of my pastimes. There is now a special branch of Astrology called Jungian Astrology. In the OP , I can see that you do not think much of Synshronicity and Jung's views on the matter.

originally posted by: OneGoal
a reply to: spygeek

I only would like to add that you be cautious when adventuring into this subject in depth.

Indeed, it is dangerous to flirt with delusional psychology, part of the reason I am going to publish the whole adventure here is to ensure I have a (hopefully) rational audience to keep me grounded in reality =)

a reply to: spygeek

So do you believe it can actually be a subconscious memory trick or they are just making it up?

I always notice when it's 7:47.
Because those are awesome airplanes.

a reply to: crowdedskies

Are you claiming your conscious desire to see a specific number caused the number to appear? Superstitious belief in numerology is not a rational basis for claiming this event was anything other than simple coincidence. Had you not been exposed to the concept of the "number of the beast" and accepted it's claimed significance, this event would have meant nothing to you.

Seeing as you openly admit subscribing to such pseudosciences as astrology and numerology, it is not surprising that you found yourself attaching supernatural significance to this mundane event.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: spygeek

So do you believe it can actually be a subconscious memory trick or they are just making it up?

It is most probably a combination of both, whether they are consciously aware of it or not, they are training themselves to do it.

originally posted by: spygeek

It is a probabilistic certainty that a string of coincidences will be experienced by more than one person at some points in time, it would be more unusual if this never happened..

I studies probability (including confidence levels and standard deviations) when I did maths. All very interesting. However, I disproved it all not long after.

For example , I trained myself to throw a coin three times so that it would always be Head, Head and Tail. No matter how many times I did it, it would always fall in that sequence. I would then do it in front of others and succeed. I would even ask someone else to throw the coin and get the same result.

The problem with probability is that , when the rule does not hold , the mathematician moves the goal post. Let's say I am able to make a coin fall Head ten times in a row. The mathematician would probably say : "Ok , but if you threw it 500 times , about 250 times would be Head and 250 would be tail . That the law of probality".

originally posted by: spygeek

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: spygeek

So do you believe it can actually be a subconscious memory trick or they are just making it up?

It is most probably a combination of both, whether they are consciously aware of it or not, they are training themselves to do it.

That makes sense. I've already said why I find it so hard to believe (there's clocks literally everywhere).

I guess it's like the old mind trick "don't think of elephants" and the first thing you think about is elephants. Even if the thought is don't think of elephants, you're still thinking of elephants.

(Be honest, you thought of elephants didn't you?)