So you refuse to CONSENT to a drug test, they can refuse to treat you? And your fetus.

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

Drinking too much caffeine can cause a miscarriage. Would one be charged with murder in that case? Weapon of choice: one too many lattes



* The form didn't specify what type of test or what they would be testing for other than illegal drugs. I'm assuming they aren't doing a full blood panel. I'm assuming they are doing the urine dip stick like most pre-employment use. Which may (in a limited way) test for alcohol- you basically have to be wasted the night before, or drunk at the time of the test. But not for cigarettes, which can be equally harmful. And I'm really not sure if those tests show all prescription drugs- which are WAAAYYY more widely abused than any illegal drug.

originally posted by: rukia
a reply to: ladyvalkyrie
Do you think talking with a lawyer could help? There must be a way to challenge this. This is so wrong.

I sent an inquiry to the Medical Board of Texas to question the legality. If they say it's a bad policy, then I fully intend to follow up with a formal complaint.

I also got tired of waiting for a response from them, so just for sh*ts and giggles I sent a letter to the ACLU. I hope they take it, because this is BS. On their form there's a section that asks what I want them to do about it. I even put 'I'm not trying to sue anyone, nor am I asking for compensation, I just feel that policies like this are counterproductive and unconstitutional and should be discontinued immediately.'

PS Thank you for the support! That's the main reason I started this thread, I was like "Am I crazy, or is this WRONG?" I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees the injustice of it. I already suffer from severe anxiety, and I can't take my meds because they definitely cause birth defects- so this situation has caused me MASSIVE amounts of stress. Lack of sleep, dwelling dwelling dwelling, I can't help it. Stress has been proven to cause fetal harm, so if anyone is harming this fetus it's the self righteous doctor's office.

OMeffinG! Just found this:
Causes of False Positives

It says that "Amoxicillin and most antibiotics can yield a false positive result for coc aine" on a drug test.

1. I did NOT know that.
2. I was prescribed Amoxicillin for bronchitis in December and took the whole round as prescribed. Maybe it's out of my system by now, but who's to say for sure that it wouldn't produce a false positive.
3. Like I said, I had NO idea that Amoxicillin could cause a false positive, so I would not think to tell the doctor's office (or CPS) that I had taken it as prescribed by my GP.

Good God I'm glad I didn't fall for their BS. I might be having to convince CPS right now that I'm not a coke head.


Also, antidepressants can yield false positives for amphetamines. I've been told by multiple doctors in the past that my antidepressant Zoloft is probably safe for use during pregnancy and basically the benefits have to be weighed against the risks. If you're a total mess, go ahead and take it. I try not to take it during the first trimester because that's when everything is forming, for the sake of the fetus I just suffer through. But if I had been taking it THAT could have shown a false positive too.

Jeez Louise.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

I believe the "ladyvalkrie" protest too much.....
And I believe there's a reason. Sorry. So just stop

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

Drinking too much caffeine can cause a miscarriage. Would one be charged with murder in that case? Weapon of choice: one too many lattes

You're not seriously comparing Fetal Alcohol Syndrome with drinking lattes, are you?

a reply to: GetHyped

how about letting an infection run rampant through your body because you're afraid the antibiotics will give a false positive or stressing out that they will because you take them? I posted a link to an article a few pages back that tells what the found as far as what extreme stress can do....something about a self perpetuating stress loop?

a reply to: dawnstar

If you have to concoct such contrived examples to make your point, it's not terribly valid.

a reply to: GetHyped
you do your own search as to just what can cause a false negative, do your own research, before you come at me about how it's so contrived. the tests aren't that accurate and because they aren't the penalty for failing them shouldn't be so high!

a reply to: dawnstar

Drinking the odd latte is not the same as chronic excessive alcohol consumption throughout pregnancy.

I shouldn't really need to point out the absurdity of this claim.

a reply to: GetHyped

I'm just saying, where does it end?

My friend's mom adopted a 'crack baby'. He had low birth weight, developmental delay, spinal bifida and is incontinent of his bowls for life. Another ex-coworker smoked during her whole pregnancy. Her daughter has to do breathing treatments all the time and is constantly in the ER. Stuff like this is horrible and preventable. But what are they going to do? Sequester all pregnant women? Force them to take their prenatal vitamins? Monitor every substance that goes in their body? ALL pregnant women just because of the crappy behavior of a few?

I don't have all the answers, all I know is ^that's not me and I don't appreciate being treated like a criminal when I've done nothing wrong.


Hot Tub Dangers
Oh hey! Taking a bath that's over 101 degrees may cause birth defects. So should I call CPS over every time I take a bath to check the water temperature for me?

originally posted by: Abbby
a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

I believe the "ladyvalkrie" protest too much.....
And I believe there's a reason. Sorry. So just stop

I've asked it before in this thread an no one's answered:

Police show up at your doorstep without a warrant. They request to search your premises. All you have to do is sign a consent. Would you do it?

Now, a step further...they tell you that if you don't sign the 'voluntary' consent you and your family's phone numbers will go on a 'no service' list and you will be excluded from all 911 service from that point on. Do you think that's right?


PS If it would shut accusatory people like you up I would gladly take a home drug test and post a pic of the results. But I'm sure you would then accuse me of somehow cheating, so I'm not going to waste $30 on that.

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: dawnstar

Drinking the odd latte is not the same as chronic excessive alcohol consumption throughout pregnancy.

I shouldn't really need to point out the absurdity of this claim.

A cup or two of coffee per day is fine. TOO MUCH caffeine can cause a miscarriage. Like I asked, where does it end? Any harm to the fetus and the woman does jail time? Pretty much everything you do effects the fetus.

But hey, you're right, it's all for the good of the fetus. Screw the rights of the woman. Just make camps to herd all pregnant women in so you can monitor everything that goes into their body. For the sake of the fetus.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

Apples and oranges. Logical Fallacy FTW.

Also, your analogy is flawed. What you did was the equivalent of calling 911 for assistance then refusing to let them in the house because they said if they find anything incriminating you could be held accountable under the law.

originally posted by: AlienSupernova
No offense , as a woman myself, but heres the issue.

If you are on something, or have even forgot you had taken some medication, and it reacted badly with some sort of treatment then they would be held liable

It sounds like its more safety for the both of you than anything else. Although I do know there are many issues in the medical community, in this case I feel like this is a misunderstanding on your part

Love Love,
AlienSupernova

This^

While i was reading the OP i already had this in mind and was ready to post it but lo and behold the first post below the OP already pointed this out and it was good to see.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
Here is an inquiry letter I just sent to the Medical Board for my state:

Today I reported to my OBGYN office for my first prenatal visit. Among the packet of paperwork was a consent form. The consent form was for random drug testing, a positive result being reported to CPS and other authorities. There were also consent forms for STD information being reported, to entities such as CDC, which I completely understand the importance of and agreed to.

I took exception to the drug testing request and refused to sign it. For the record, I do not use drugs or alcohol. As a matter of fact, I stopped taking all (legal) medications as soon as I found out I was pregnant. I used to be a police officer and as a police officer I couldn't search a house, a car or even someone's pockets without at least probable cause- if not a warrant. As a police officer I could ask someone's consent to search and it was their constitutional right to refuse. And such refusal DID NOT constitute probable cause to conduct a search anyway.

Like I said, I filled out all their other paperwork and consented to several other things that I didn't take as a violation of my rights. I was led back to an examining room and told that the doctor would refuse to see me if I did not sign this form. So refusing to sign a consent form means they can refuse treatment? And prenatal care at that? At that point IF I signed it it would be under coercion and not voluntary at all. Right?

I still refused to sign and left the office. I had already left a urine sample and if they (illegally and without consent) tested it for drugs they would have found it to be clean.

I am writing this letter to inquire about the legality of this practice. I'm not going to waste your time with a complaint if what they did was perfectly legal, but if this practice IS legal, it is seriously flawed from a constitutional standpoint.

Personally, I am livid. I am being refused prenatal care because I refuse to submit to an invasion of my privacy. And people will argue "What about the baby? It's for the baby's safety." And like I told the nurse- if there were some sort of probable cause it would be a whole other can of worms. If I showed up to the appointment intoxicated, if my teeth were falling out and I wasn't gaining weight, if I had visible track marks... THAT would be something. But not even that, they want my VOLUNTARY CONSENT to randomly test? And refusing to voluntarily consent means they refuse to see me? So now the fetus is being refused treatment by a doctor? Wow, THAT'S a great policy for the safety of the fetus.

Ask yourself this. With the doctor(s) knowing what sort of drugs you have taken or take regularly (this btw does not have to be about illegal drugs) can this only be helpfull in the the treatment of you and the baby or can it be somehow harmfull for you and the baby.

The simple and only conclusion is ofcourse that it can only be helpfull for doctors to know about this and treat and protect you and your baby better.

If you are brought into the hospital for whatever and need to be treated for somewthing they always ask you what sort of drugs you use (again does not mean illegal drugs but should also be included for obvious reasons) this is not done because they want to condemn you but to help you and also to protect themselves from liabilities. If illegal drugs are in play people have the tendency to lie about it so a drug test will simply give them the facts they need to help protect and treat you and the baby better.

Sometimes we are also not even aware of certain things ourselves because of the use of simple household tricks people often use. So then you would not even be able to tell them.

Infact any issues you have may even be caused by any legal or illegal drugs you have taken. I dont see you "right to privacy" argument here when it comes to doctors needing to take care of you. You expect them to take care of you the best they can dont you?

I think it is the most responsible thing they can do for you and themselves.
If anyone has a problem with that go somewhere else where they dont do this but dont come crying when it goes wrong because of that.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie
Ah. There is your problem. Money. They would not do that to private pay.

Have a home birth. Contact your nearest midwife and experience the pleasure of a more natural birth without the stress of the crap they are putting you through now. I delivered my last child at home and it was so much more peaceful with an explosion of joy compared to having my other daughters at a hospital where they wouldn't even let me record the birth, the energy of the staff was like they were delivering a pizza for the 126th time that day. We all have different experiences though, just my opinion. Congrats though

a reply to: everyone

while you might have explained why the doctors and nurses might need to do a drug test...
you have failed to explain why the doctor would then proceed to turn those that test positive over to child protective or the law enforcement.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: dawnstar

Drinking the odd latte is not the same as chronic excessive alcohol consumption throughout pregnancy.

I shouldn't really need to point out the absurdity of this claim.

A cup or two of coffee per day is fine. TOO MUCH caffeine can cause a miscarriage. Like I asked, where does it end? Any harm to the fetus and the woman does jail time? Pretty much everything you do effects the fetus.

Are you or are you not saying that doctors should not be concerned with checking up on alcoholics to ensure they aren't endangering their child throughout pregnancy?

a reply to: GetHyped

I'm saying that if they want to do a full blood panel on every patient to see everything that they've taken into their body for the past 30 days...for the sake of the woman's health and the health of the fetus I am fine with that. With the results being confidential between patient and doctor. A positive result meaning the doctor would counsel and come up with a treatment plan.

If someone is addicted to drugs or alcohol so bad that they show up to an appointment intoxicated, then that's probable cause to test them. In that case they should be required to see the doctor (by the doctor- still don't involve the law yet) MORE OFTEN than typically recommended for monitoring.

If, under the above scenarios, a person tests positive for harmful substances then the doctor should do everything they can to treat the addiction....counseling, offering less harmful substances as a substitute, etc.

IF, after all that, the person continues to use, is non compliant with the doctor's plan of action....THEN report them to CPS and they can have a judge order them into inpatient treatment. I just disagree with randomly testing everyone for the purposes of law enforcement. You've got to have some reason to believe that they are doing something wrong to begin with, or that they are unwilling or unable to change their behavior and NEED the government to step in for the sake of the fetus. Trust me, preventable defects make me sick. But addiction is a chemical dependency in the brain and throwing someone in jail will do nothing but make it worse, they need medical intervention early, not punishment after the fact.