So you refuse to CONSENT to a drug test, they can refuse to treat you? And your fetus.

another story, this one actually did involve drug usage, that's if you can consider one valium, cut in half taken on separate days...

One night a few weeks earlier, Shehi and her ex-husband got into a huge argument on the phone. She was in the late stages of what had been a difficult pregnancy; she was achy and bloated, and her ankles felt like they might explode. After the fight, she called her mother, Ann Sharpe, a retired teacher and guidance counselor who lived nearby. “She was really upset — ‘I’m miserable, I’m sick, I can’t sleep,’ ” Sharpe recalled. “I said, ‘Do you have something you can take?’ ” As Shehi later told investigators, she had swallowed half of one of her boyfriend’s Valiums to calm herself down.

Not long after, Shehi and her boyfriend and their various kids packed up the camper and drove 325 miles from Gadsden, in northeast Alabama, to the beach in Panama City, Florida, for one last vacation before the baby came. The weather was sweltering, the trailer — a grimy relic with an air conditioner that only worked when it wanted to — suffocating. Shehi was too keyed up to sleep, her 4-year-old son curled up beside her on the narrow bed. Finally, she reached for the other half of the tranquilizer.

www.propublica.org...

again there's an ex-husband inflicted child abuse on the fetus by unduly upsetting the mother who is feeling crappy, can't sleep.

a reply to: raymundoko

first it says sophisticated testing, which probably costs more than you average doctor's office or hospital would choose to spend on testing.
but well, don't believe me, believe this:

www.dailymail.co.uk...

originally posted by: dawnstar


again there's an ex-husband inflicted child abuse on the fetus by unduly upsetting the mother who is feeling crappy, can't sleep.

...child abuse
what a crock
you saying a woman failed a test cause of a half of a valium?
i dont belive that

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
...Yet, if I were to use it (probably safe to use in pregnancy- birth defects are NOT higher in Jamaica) and it were to show up on one of these not-voluntary tests, I would be on the CPS hit list and my kid(s) could all be taken from me and placed in the ever-so-well-run foster care system.

First of all, congratulations.

Secondly, refusal probably puts you even higher up on the CPS hit list anyway. After all, from a certain point of view you're "...denying your unborn child access to medical services". Throw in a bit of "if she has nothing to hide she has nothing to fear" and some "no reasonable person would refuse so she's clearly snorting drano by the bucketfull and lives in a house littered with pot-needles", etc.

Hope it all works out well for you. It's a difficult-enough time without that kind of nonsense going on.

a reply to: TinySickTears

look the importance of the women's emotional state is to the developing fetus.. they are finding that it can have lifelong negative effects on the fetus... using pot doesn't even come close...

but here's another women put through heck because of poppy seeds...

www.wtae.com...

and another

www.ronpaulforums.com...

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: dawnstar


again there's an ex-husband inflicted child abuse on the fetus by unduly upsetting the mother who is feeling crappy, can't sleep.

...child abuse
what a crock
you saying a woman failed a test cause of a half of a valium?
i dont belive that

Yes. Absolutely she would fail a drug test for taking half a valium. She would fail a drug test if she took a quarter of a valium. It is a controlled substance and if she did not have a prescription for it she would fail a drug test because taking it would be illegal. Believe what you want I guess, but good grief there comes a point where there is a fine line between belief and delusion.

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

It sounds like you are just being a jerk. No offense, but medical malpractice lawsuits are a real thing and one of the leading causes of high medical costs in the USA. If you don't consent, he/she can't be sure he/she is doing the right thing for you as a doctor and opens his/her self up for liability.

If you don't like it, pick another doctor. They will say the same thing.

For you not to know why the test is required for good medical care is very ignorant of how hard it is to be a doctor in this day and age.

Your reasoning for denying the drug test and not denying the std test are at odds with each other. They both serve the same purpose. Determinging how to treat you and the baby. If you accept a STD panel, which is far more damaging socially if it were to get out that you had one than if you smoked a blunt while pregnant, then why would you refuse a Drug Screen? It's just you being rude to the staff.

STD results are reported to the CDC who track them...for the sake of public safety. No one gets criminal charges because of it (unless in the rare case you can prove they knew they had say, HIV and was having unprotected sex and knowingly infecting others...very rare)

I don't know how good your reading skills are, I've said it multiple times on here, I guess I'll have to say it again:
The drug test itself I don't take exception to. Let them do it. If someone shows up positive for something, let the doctor counsel them. IF they are showing to be a clear danger to themselves or others then report them to authorities, doctors are obliged to to that anyway. But a little marijuana or half a valium (thanks dawnstar!) is not enough to harm the fetus, but it is enough to ruin your friggin life with CPS. And I'm clean, but I really don't like the idea of a doctor acting as an agent of the state and extorting me with medical care into signing away my rights and consenting to a warrantless search of my person.

And I have gone to another doctor, and they do not have that same form in their repertoire, so the only good news is that this is an isolated incident. The only thing policies like this are going to do is drive true drug addicts into hiding, thereby not receiving prenatal care- when they are the ones that need it the most.

If you want to bend over and take it from Big Brother, then be my guest. Personally, I intend to go down fighting.

originally posted by: redhorse


Yes. Absolutely she would fail a drug test for taking half a valium. She would fail a drug test if she took a quarter of a valium. It is a controlled substance and if she did not have a prescription for it she would fail a drug test because taking it would be illegal.

what about an 8th. a 16th.
and you dont fail a drug test cause the drug is illegal. concentrations in the blood/urine and there is a line where the test wont pick it up.
i cant be for sure but i dont think a person would fail a test cause they took a single valium.


failing a test cause the drug is illegal.
thats a hoot

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

A little marijuana can harm the fetus, including creating a greater propensity for developing schizophrenia. I don't have an issue with adults that want to smoke pot, but while pregnant or having small children exposed is risky. A pregnant woman would be better off with the valium.

However, I do NOT believe that taking such a theoretical risk is worth losing ones kids over. Leave kids with their parents; even in dysfunctional households (save pedophilia) kids stand a better chance than they do in foster care. DFS/CPS is a predatory, undertrained agency that is simply justifying its own existence at this point.

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: redhorse


Yes. Absolutely she would fail a drug test for taking half a valium. She would fail a drug test if she took a quarter of a valium. It is a controlled substance and if she did not have a prescription for it she would fail a drug test because taking it would be illegal.

what about an 8th. a 16th.
and you dont fail a drug test cause the drug is illegal. concentrations in the blood/urine and there is a line where the test wont pick it up.
i cant be for sure but i dont think a person would fail a test cause they took a single valium.


failing a test cause the drug is illegal.
thats a hoot

I think you don't know how this works.

another story, this time cannabis tea.... the mother thought it was a better alternative than the pain killer that the doctor had prescribed for her to treat the severe sciatic nerve pain and morning sickness, and she was probably right....
but another new mom put through heck....

The latter approach still prevails in most of the country, as illustrated by what happened to Hollie Sanford and her baby girl, Nova. After Sanford gave birth at Cleveland’s Fairview Hospital on September 26, Nova was snatched away from her because the newborn’s first stool tested positive for a marijuana metabolite. Against the recommendation of county social workers (who are usually the villains in stories like this), Cuyahoga County Juvenile Court Magistrate Eleanore Hilow decided the drug test result by itself justified separating Nova from her parents. They were not reunited until last week, after a judge overruled Hilow.

Sanford used cannabis tea to treat morning sickness and severe sciatic nerve pain while she was pregnant with Nova, as she had when she was pregnant with Nova’s brother, Logan, who is now almost 2. Her research convinced her marijuana was a safer choice than the painkillers she had been prescribed, and she may be right about that. The Food and Drug Administration puts opioids such as hydrocodone and oxycodone in Category C, meaning “animal reproduction studies have shown an adverse effect on the fetus and there are no adequate and well-controlled studies in humans,” although “potential benefits may warrant use of the drug in pregnant women despite potential risks.” The evidence concerning marijuana’s effects on fetuses is likewise mixed and incomplete.

www.forbes.com...

a reply to: redhorse

ive heard of fetal alcohol syndrome
crack babies


weed babies.
nope

originally posted by: redhorse


I think you don't know how this works.

i think i do.
i think drug tests pick up levels of the substance in your system
i think if the levels are low enough it does not pick it up.

there has to be a line somewhere

feel free to explain.

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: redhorse


I think you don't know how this works.

i think i do.
i think drug tests pick up levels of the substance in your system
i think if the levels are low enough it does not pick it up.

there has to be a line somewhere

feel free to explain.

It depends on the type of drug test,if it is a urine test you are right if the level is low enough it will not pick it up....

They test for everything including panadene forte,nurofen and other "over the counter" painkillers.....

a reply to: TinySickTears

1. Drug tests specifically target illegal substances or illegal use of controlled substances. That. Is. The. Point. of a drug test.

The test is performed to detect the presence of illegal and some prescription drugs in your urine. Their presence indicates that you recently used these drugs. Some drugs may remain in your system for several weeks, so the drug test needs to be interpreted carefully.

When they say "some prescription drugs" they do mean controlled substances (such as valium).

Link

2. Drug tests can detect very minute amounts of a list of "common" substances that they test for (such as coc aine, methamphetamines, opiates and cannabis). Said common substances often include Benzodiazepine (valium) because it is a controlled substance, highly addictive and often abused. They usually look for it, and the test will find it; even if you took that 1/2 a valium the day before.

Although it is governed by several factors, including dose, route of administration, metabolism, urine volume, and pH, the detection time of most drugs in urine is 1 to 3 days.

Link

how stressing the mom to be out is child abuse (since taking a half of a valium is considered to be!)

Its important for all family members and extended family to make extra effort to create an environment of low stress for the woman during pregnancy to allow healthy brain development of the child. Reseach suggests that high levels of social and emotional stress, or even chronic moderate stress, can have negative impacts on the fetus' brain during pregnancy. The mother and the uterine environment she creates have a major contribution to many aspects of fetal development and a number of key brain development steps that occur during that time impact a child throughout its life. The exact consequences of hormonal variations in the womb on our intelligence, personality, and emotional and physical health is beginning to be understood. There's also an emerging understanding of a new area of science called fetal programming, which says that the health effects of our life in the womb may be not be felt until decades after we're born, and in ways that are more powerful than previously imagined.

When we feel stressed, we normally experience a range of effects -- our pupils dilate, our blood pressure and heart rate rise, and our emotions heighten. What we don't see are the internal effects. A message reaches the pituitary gland at the base of the brain and is relayed to the adrenal glands, where the stress hormone cortisol is secreted into our bloodstream. The placenta inactivates most of the mother's cortisol before it reaches the fetus, but some of it gets into the fetal bloodstream.

The mother's cortisol also can cause the placenta to release corticotrophin-releasing hormone (CRH), which goes directly to the fetus. This causes the fetus to secrete its own cortisol, which stimulates the placenta to secrete even more CRH, creating for the fetus a self-perpetuating stress-hormone loop.

Janet DiPietro, an associate professor of maternal and child health at the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health and one of the few fetal-behavior specialists in the US, says that research tells us that the fetus is bathed in hormones generated by what the mother is feeling, and these hormones affect the underlying fetal brain environment that shapes its personality and temperament, she says. "Temperament has to be formed this way. It wouldn't make any sense for it not to. A woman who is going up and down all day with stress hormones and changes in heart rate and blood pressure causes her fetus to get a very uneven distribution of oxygen. This is not good for its ultimate homeostatic well-being."

This happens because maternal stress triggers the secretion of not only cortisol but another stress hormone, adrenaline. Adrenaline and adrenaline-like stress hormones can cause uterine contractions that disturb the fetus and can constrict blood vessels that diminish blood flow -- and oxygen -- to the fetus. Lack of oxygen to the fetus brain is well known to be harmful to the child's brain during pregnancy and has been identified as an important factor in increasing risk for schizophrenia. Maternal factors such a stress and stress hormones have been shown to play a significant role in pregnancy outcomes related to premature birth - another factor that is associated with underweight babies and higher risk of schizophrenia.

www.schizophrenia.com...

so, let's see some of these exes get charged with child abuse because they just can't resist calling the mother to be up to argue and bicker with them, especially when that stress is enough to cause the women to lose their balance and fall down a flight of stairs!!

Your logic is circular and ridiculous.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

a reply to: raymundoko

well, one thing is for sure, one little poppy bagel isn't gonna cause a baby to be put into a self-perpetuating stress-hormone loop or or diminish the blood flow and cause it to be erratic and deprive the child of oxygen...
but making the women go through the cps hoops or throwing that women into jail jail might cause enough stress to do it. i highly doubt if a half of vallium would, or an ibprofen, or a joint. and it's been pointed out repeatedly the intention that any positive results would be reported to the authorities right on the form. it has nothing to do with their concern of the mother's health or the baby's really, or fear of a malpractice suit...
it's about policing women when they are at their most vulnerable state, it's about establishing the rights of the fetus over those of the women who is carrying that fetus.
there's been plenty of women who have been legally forced into having c-sections, occasionally causing deaths instead of preserving life. can you think of one instance where a man can be force to have an operation he does not wish to have?

originally posted by: raymundoko
Your logic is circular and ridiculous.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

Man, I've said this about a million times. If the health of the mother/fetus is truly their goal there are other ways to go about this. Their form specifically said their randomly testing everyone for the purpose of law enforcement.

Like pulling over EVERY driver in EVERY vehicle randomly and testing them for drugs. For public safety. Instead of how they operate every other law enforcement function where there has to be some kind of probable cause.

The Fifth Amendment guarantees the right to NOT self incriminate. Therefore this form is unconstitutional.

They could 1. treat anyway without the drug test 2. give the drug test but keep the results confidential 3. have probable cause like every other LE has to comply to in order to obtain evidence of a crime

a reply to: TinySickTears

I agree with you. Crack babies, fetal alcohol syndrome, deformities that could have been prevented....it's horrible business and more should be done to curtail it early.

A drug test won't pick up alcohol unless you're drunk right that minute. A drug test won't pick up cigarette smoke and cigs will cause premature birth, low birth weight and lifelong lung problems.

Plus the fact that threat of prosecution will drive true addicts AWAY from medical help, when they're the ones who need it the most.

@redhorse There's no evidence anywhere that shows that MJ causes birth defects. Especially if it's just a small amount. Yet that small amount on a drug test is enough to remove your child from you while you fight it in court. Instead of being home with the mother, skin to skin contact, breast milk, away from questionable foster care...which is really more harmful to mother and child? A tiny amount of THC? Or all that stress and seperation?